Rewiring through imangination

[makeItStop]

I quite enjoyed this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nqP-mQTOl4

He stresses the importance of re-training our brians to seeing females as sex objects (while some might object to seeing females as sex objects, I think in the context of rewiring it's a good thing to start with just to help restore our natural attraction to real girls and not pixels) and not asexual beings.  He says using our imagination with girls we have met in real life is a good way to get this going, I think I'll give this a go after at least 90 days.  I'll try this for a while before trying to rewire with a real girl. Thoughts?

 

[William]

It is similar to the question I see a lot in here:  "Can I have sex during the reboot?"  The answer I always give is "Yes, as long as it is normal sex, with a partner you respect and have affection for, and you are thinking of her at the time, and not porn." 

I would suggest that during the 90 day reboot stage you avoid hypersexual thoughts even if they are about women you see.  It is one thing to see a beautiful woman and recognize her as beautiful or even feel attracted to her, it is another to put her in a porn scene inside your head. I suppose my best answer would be to first reboot for 90, then rewire with a girl you like and try your best to think only of her.  If your goal is to rewire to real sex, then rewarding the fake sex of fantasy (your imagination) is to be avoided. 

Peace.

 

[Pisces21]

Isn't there a thin line b/t "sexual" and "hypersexual"? How do we differentiate? I guess the more "porn-inspired" it is, it's likely hypersexual?

 

[William]

Isn't there a thin line b/t "sexual" and "hypersexual"? How do we differentiate? I guess the more "porn-inspired" it is, it's likely hypersexual?

It is a fine line, but remember the purpose of the exercise.  It is not so much about sexual v. hypersexual, it is about avoiding all triggers that release heightened dopamine.  The reality of where most of us here find ourselves is this:  we don't experience just average sexual thought because average sexual thoughts have become desensitized to our hypersensitivity to porn.  By the time we get here many of us are desensitized to vanilla porn, and are now triggering only on things way outside our actual tastes, desires, or even orientation.  The advice I give here is for porn addicts.  Porn addict responses to sexual imagery or thought is a million miles away from a non addict's thoughts.  For a porn addict quitting porn, for guys in that category, all sexual thoughts are dangerous.  You can never totally eliminate them, but they need to be seriously curtailed. I am not judging sexual thoughts or saying they are bad in a moral way, what I am saying is that, for the porn addict, almost all sexual thought do the opposite of what we want--they cause a dopamine release.  And--and newbies need to be aware of this--when quitting porn, when you are denying yourself whatever extreme porn you were watching when you decided to quit--you will trigger on sexual imagery that is much milder, vanilla, or even not considered porn.  You have to avoid Victoria Secrets and bikini pics during the rebooting process because, even though mild, the dopamine starved brain will trigger on almost anything to get a taste of dopamine, and even the slightest taste of dopamine is detrimental to the rebooter.  Why?  Porn addiction, aka dopamine addiction, can only be overcome by starving the addiction to death, but this is one addiction that can live endlessly on the smallest amount of sustenance.  Feed the addiction even a little and it stays alive.  Everything I am saying here is in the context of a porn addict quitting porn.  This advice is not for porn addicts not quitting porn, and it is not for non-addicts.  It is limited advice for a limited group of guys. 

Remember, when Make It Stop asks about using "imagination", he is not talking about actual sex, he is talking about imagining sex in the head, as in fantasy.  Fantasy is a porn substitute, it is something less than PMO that our dopamine deprived brains tell us is OK because it is not porn, but all porn really is is a means of having hypersexual thoughts, at a time when just average sexual thoughts should be avoided to lower dopamine levels. 

I am just saying if one is serious about quitting porn, about getting clean of the addiction, the addiction that took years to develop, then quit playing with the concepts, quit trying to find an easier way to do it, and make a plan for a solid 90 day reboot.  A solid 90 day reboot requires limiting sexual thoughts and hypersexual thoughts to lower dopamine levels.  I did not say "eliminate" because that is not possible.  Once you make it to the other side of addicted, if you want to play with your triggers, fine, your call, but make the point of getting unaddicted before you do.

Hope this helps.

Peace. 

 

[Pisces21]

Right, I agree and understand, but I;m a bit confused - so is sex fantasy okay as long as it's not hypersexual?

 

[William]

Right, I agree and understand, but I;m a bit confused - so is sex fantasy okay as long as it's not hypersexual?

Hi Pisces, the answer to your question is:  NO.  When I say no, this is not a moral no, this is the cause and effect no.  To avoid the effect, dopamine elevation, you want to avoid the cause, sexual thoughts.  For most porn addicts, if not all, the only type of sexual thoughts that produce dopamine are hypersexualized thoughts, extreme pornographic images.  One of the tests for whether one is porn addicted is whether one can MO without porn.  One of the tests for porn addicts is whether with mild porn, one can MO.  Most cannot O unless with P, as in PMO, and rather extreme porn at the end of the addiction.  Translation, when quitting, even vanilla porn or sexual thoughts or imagery that some don't even consider "porn" should be avoided. 

If you are a porn addict and you are in the reboot phase, that 90 period that some say is the gold standard for ending the addiction, you should avoid fantasy.  Sex fantasy by definition is hypersexual.  It is thinking of sex while not having sex, and, in the reboot phase, this should be avoided.  What I am telling you is, if you are addicted, and you have made a decision to address the problem through rebooting, avoid ALL sexual thoughts because, hypersexualized or not, they produce dopamine.  Now I know it is impossible to avoid all sexual thoughts, but what I mean is, recognize you will have sexual thoughts, plan on it, and make a plan on how you avoid turning that one second flash in your head into a five minute movie.  A lot of guys begin quitting not understand that porn is not just porn, it is remembering it, thinking of it, imagining it, and porn substitutes.  In the quitting phase guys can trigger on a bologna sandwich--OK--LIE--probably not, but in the quitting phase, for porn addicts, just avoid sexual thoughts for that 90 period.  Remember, dopamine is released to normal, non hypersexual, thoughts that are merely "sexual", and the point of avoiding them is to lower dopamine levels, so anything that brings them up, avoid it.  You don't go from heightened levels back to normal overnight, it takes weeks or months. In that time, do nothing to bring your dopamine levels up. It is a pretty simple proposition.  No getting around it though. 

Hope this helps. 

 

[fugu]

I quite enjoyed this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nqP-mQTOl4

He stresses the importance of re-training our brians to seeing females as sex objects (while some might object to seeing females as sex objects, I think in the context of rewiring it's a good thing to start with just to help restore our natural attraction to real girls and not pixels) and not asexual beings.  He says using our imagination with girls we have met in real life is a good way to get this going, I think I'll give this a go after at least 90 days.  I'll try this for a while before trying to rewire with a real girl. Thoughts?

If you think this is a good idea, by all means, do it! Reboots are for experimenting. However, I'm going to drop my two cents here: I think, as porn addicts and people suffering from sexual dysfunction due to our addiction, our perspectives of relationships and attraction and sexuality need to be completely changed and reshaped. It's important to remember that a lot of the way we think now is because of the years of porn use in our pasts. While I do believe there's nothing wrong or abnormal with seeing a woman and being attracted by her physical features, it's likely that us porn addicts are doing it in a way that is (to put it unscientifically) unnatural and deeply rooted in the porn pathways in our brain. It can be pretty counter productive, honestly.

I think the best advice I can give is to start actively changing the way you think about sexuality. When you see a "hot" woman, stop thinking about all the crazy sex you want to have with her and just notice her for who she is without bringing sexuality into it - a nice smile, beautiful hair, pretty eyes, etc. Honestly, I remember the way I saw my first crush before my porn use heightened: I loved her hair and her smile. I really didn't see breasts or butt or anything else physical...I just saw her! As porn addicts we have completely forgotten about this huge component of sexuality. That's what I'm trying to get back to. I know I can say personally that I suffered from compulsively objectifying women in a porn like way well into 6 months of my reboot. It wasn't until I was reading posts and peoples experiences on the forum that I thought this might be a porn created habit (and a bad one). Hope this helps!

 

[Pisces21]

Great stuff guys, great stuff! This is all essentially about a return to reality, normalcy and humane. Also William, so you say it's okay if it's a one-second flash in your head...as long as you don't make it intentionally long and try and finish it off... what if you get an erection of just a 5 second thought about it? Does that count as a relapse? I don't mean to be difficult, but I know personally, I've been struggling with flash backs and reactions to things "far more vanilla" than what would used to turn me on as time has warn on and I get erections, but I normally say "stop!" and just quit thinking about it and the erection generally goes down after about 10 seconds or so...

 

[makeItStop]

Great stuff guys, great stuff! This is all essentially about a return to reality, normalcy and humane. Also William, so you say it's okay if it's a one-second flash in your head...as long as you don't make it intentionally long and try and finish it off... what if you get an erection of just a 5 second thought about it? Does that count as a relapse? I don't mean to be difficult, but I know personally, I've been struggling with flash backs and reactions to things "far more vanilla" than what would used to turn me on as time has warn on and I get erections, but I normally say "stop!" and just quit thinking about it and the erection generally goes down after about 10 seconds or so...

I wouldn't count that as a relapse.  It's similar to accidentally seeing some P while browsing as long as you don't follow through with conscious intent and break it off it should be fine from what I've experienced and read.

 

[William]

Great stuff guys, great stuff! This is all essentially about a return to reality, normalcy and humane. Also William, so you say it's okay if it's a one-second flash in your head...as long as you don't make it intentionally long and try and finish it off... what if you get an erection of just a 5 second thought about it? Does that count as a relapse? I don't mean to be difficult, but I know personally, I've been struggling with flash backs and reactions to things "far more vanilla" than what would used to turn me on as time has warn on and I get erections, but I normally say "stop!" and just quit thinking about it and the erection generally goes down after about 10 seconds or so...

@ Pisces, sounds like you are doing the right thing.  The thing is we are sexual beings, it is natural to have some sexual thoughts and images in the head, but, the purpose of a 90 reboot is to bring down dopamine levels, bring them back to the natural "0" from the unnatural "10" that porn elevates them to.  You will never completely avoid them, but you can greatly lessen them.  I have days now, as in multiple days, where I never have the slightest thought of P.  So my advice, attempt to avoid all sexual thought in that 90 reboot period, and hopefully by the end of it, you won't have to concentrate on avoiding it.  Like anything else, practicing avoiding hypersexual thoughts will make you better and better at it. 

Peace.