on the way! 5 days off PMO! I m thinking about after the process.

[Alex48]

Hi. Here we are on the way, very excited about wanting to reach 90 days without PMO. 5 days, going well by now!. I was wondering whether or not to upload this post. I do not intend to be controversial, but I would like to know what opinions you have about what I am going to say. As a porn addict that I begin to recognize myself, I have clear and I always had it, that pornography in my life is not an option, that is, I know that I will always have to take precautions to avoid falling into an addiction. It could be similar to the alcoholic who has no choice over alcohol, knows that it will be sealed for life. I could say that I understand.
But what about masturbation? I explain. I am here because I started with the PMO plan and I want to regain my ability to erect and recover a good sexual life, my last 3 experiences were not good about erection. If the plan says 90 days without masturbation I will. But after? I mean, if you do not have a partner at any given time, really masturbation (without porn, which is clear) can be harmful. What is the balance? If you ask me I would say that as long as I do not consume porn, or anything that makes me fall into sexually compulsive attitudes, masturbation would be fine. I clarify that I never had a compulsive attitude with masturbation without consumption of pornography, only when I was adolescent.
I do not want to confuse the staff, I can only clarify this issue, because it is disconcerting yo me, not with Plan 90, but after. I think sex is something healthy, that for some reason, each of us here (and many who are not) did not give it good use at the time. But is it necessary to think about a lifelong abstinence behavior regarding masturbation ?. Maybe I did not understand some guidelines well, or maybe that applies to some and not others. It happens that the idea of thinking this way I do not know to what extent it is healthy. I mean, sex is not alcohol or drugs, it's part of our biology. To know how to enjoy it, I think it's even necessary. Well, I hope I have been clear, if anyone can clarify this, welcome.
Hugs!

 

[lyon03]

Thank you for sharing Alex. Forgive me because this might sting a bit. I think you're still negotiating my friend. Reading between the lines, I think you're trying to say this: "Ok I'll give up porn and masturbation for 90 days, but after 90 days I REALLY want to start masturbating again." Is this a fair comment? I'm not criticizing you my friend because I did the exact same thing. For roughly 30 years, I masturbated almost daily...sometimes twice a day even. For the first 100 days of reboot, I white-knuckled (sorry for that visual) trying not to masturbate. If you go through my posts around the 100-day mark, I eventually broke down and masturbated 3x in a row. I'm not a no-fap warrior my friends. I still masturbate maybe 5-6x a year, or about every few months. I find that I'm often aroused after sex with my boyfriend and when I find myself back home alone after having sex at his place, I'll masturbate in some form of a chaser effect. So what's my point? Let me put this another way. Yes you can live off of junk food, but it's not good for you. Yes a Big Mac is good from time to time, but healthy, nourishing food is ultimately better. Similarly you can always jerk off, but that's sort of the Happy Meal version of intimacy. If you spend all of your sexual energy on self pleasure, it's unlikely you'll meet someone. I'll use myself as an example. I've tried living my homosexuality several ways: first virtually (and in the closet) through jerking to porn while married to a woman; then strictly via meaningless Grindr hook ups; then via an open relationship with my boyfriend; and now through a mostly exclusive relationship with him. I find monogamy the most intimate and satisfying way to live my sexuality. Had I not moved away from the porn and masturbation, I probably wouldn't have had any incentive to find a meaningful partner. I think it's natural for you to worry about living without masturbation. I felt the same way. But what I can tell you is that no one ever died because he/she couldn't masturbate and the less I masturbate or hook up on the side, the more meaningful sex is with a partner I love very deeply. Does that make any sense my friend? I hope that helps! PORN AND MASTURBATION ARE NOT  OPTIONS.

 

[jjacks]

Not sure I agree with "If you spend all of your sexual energy on self pleasure, it's unlikely you'll meet someone". It didn't work that way for me. As a teen and a young man, I masturbated every day or 2 (no porn in those days, just self pleasure) and met people that became sexual - the vibes were there. When I got into a sexual relationship - I had a few in my 20s, I stopped masturbating. When I married, we were having sex 2-3 times a week, so my body was at the same rhythm. I didn't get the urge to masturbate and didn't for many years, until about the time my wife was starting to slow down. Then I would masturbate, perhaps once every couple of weeks, between sexual encounters - older guys get horny, and it keeps everything in tune. Then I came face to face with internet porn and all normalcy was lost. Now, a year after my reboot, it is all in rhythm again.

Masturbation, as a teen or an adult, was always something that just happened - I never planned it in advance. All that to say I guess you have to determine what is normal for you and not be compulsive about it.

 

[Alex48]

I think jjacks has explained it perfectly. I agree that the best thing of all is to have a bond and live the sexuality with your partner. And have your sexual intercourse as often as the link needs it. In that context, it is clear that masturbating is not necessary, at least to me. But I meant when one is not in pair. I understand masturbation as something natural, in low numbers, but I share that it is very boring solo without someone to love you !!!! In my case, I clearly noticed that the problem was not masturbation, but I stuck to a screen the first time I knew I could recreate to the point of exhaustion. Anyway I take your lyon03 advice. By the way, yesterday I deleted grindr, the few people I met through this portal, zero interest in a relationship.
I confess that this last day I started to get tough, last night only sexual images came to my head. I can not believe how long the mind gives space to sex because yes, the waste of time is huge. Knowing that helps a lot.

Hugs.

 

[lyon03]

Thanks for the replies gents. jjacks I agree 100% with what you've shared. Some people can masturbate regularly, without it becoming an addiction. Some people can drink without becoming alcoholics. Unfortunately, I'm not that guy. When someone comes here with porn-masturbation-orgasm (PMO) addiction, they've already accepted these are addictions. My inability to have normal erections were prima facie proof that I was addicted to porn and masturbation. My point is that yes, pre-internet, it may have been healthy for you and I to have a wank now and then. HOWEVER when you combine hours of edging with high-speed internet porn, we're then doing some very real damage to our brains. And that damage is often an inability to get hard combined with an inability to have long-term relationships. So I'll gladly re-write my statement as:

If a long-term porn addict spends all of his/her sexual energy on screens & self pleasure, the addict is unlikely to find a partner and thereby understand real intimacy.

Better? Thanks so much as I've learned something.

 

[Alex48]

Yes, completely agree. Clearly each of us has its characteristics about addiction. And I fully share what you say, pornography and masturbation in my case I have verified, was very bad, because clearly the energy that absorbs you leaves no space for other options.

 

[Rico]

Hi Alex,
So glad that I have read your threads, Yes, likewise I have varied thoughts on masturbation. I am approaching 120 days PMO free and have handled it very well (a few urges which I have been able to suppress) but as I am on the wrong side of middle age and now (due to ill health of partner) on my own, I too am contemplating some controlled masturbation (and certainly WITHOUT the porn) to handle the 'pressure build-up' and I think I'll be able to keep that well under control.  I hope most sincerely that I am moving off in the right direction and for the right motives.  Thank you to all you guys that have shared so much and from whom so many have benefited and I wish you all well as you reboot and as I too continue on my journey porn free.....what a relief!
Rico

 

[jjacks]

"Wrong side of middle age"? You mean 30 again, right?  I prefer to call the later side of middle age, where most boomers are today, the new normal. As is a little wank now and then when the pressure builds up. All predicated on the wiring in your brain having been restored to their normal state.

 

[lyon03]

As I've shared before, I believe there are two kinds of reboot: habitual reboot and emotional reboot. Habitual simply means that you've developed bad porn-masturbation-orgasm (PMO) habits that seem a lot like addictions, but after abstaining for 90-120 days, you're pretty much recovered. Then there is emotional reboot which is what I've experienced. For decades, I used my addictions to manage my emotions to a point that my porn, sex, and masturbation habits could have killed me. Here is another example. Many of us were binge drinkers in college, but not all of us became full-blown alcoholics. So what's my point? If after your hard 90-120, you can go back to wanking from time to time without it becoming obsessive, and by obsessive I mean jerking several times a day to make yourself feel better, then I see no problem. If however you're like me, and used PMO to manage fears, shame, or other strong emotions, then abstinence is best because it can be dangerous for addicts like me to wank regularly. Why? It's like an alcoholic abstaining for a few months, only to go back to lite beer, when then leads to wine, then it's back to the hard liquor and binge drinking. What do you all think? Has anyone successfully given up a porn addiction while still masturbating? I'd like to hear about how that went for you. Thanks friends. PORN IS NOT AN OPTION.     

 

[DV8]

Hi Alex, thank you for your questions, they have opened this dialog with other members that really gave me a sense of community and transported me to the beginning of my challenge. I can't agree more with Lyon03 explanation re: addiction and masturbating. What was surprising for me was that I began this process not being aware how addicted I was to masturbating. My focus was on eradicating porn addiction and the casual flings. In fact I was horrified at the prospect of never masturbating again. I defended it and found so many 'rational' excuses as to why I should be doing it. And rightfully so, it was one thing I could relay on. As the process was unfolding, I was astounded to find out how deep and long masturbation has been my companion. I have used this activity as a way to numb my pain, shame, boredom, intense feeling, unreachable desires...etc. Porn addiction is not something I want in my life, it turns out that it was not the biggest issue, although it feeds all other maladaptive behaviours I have engaged in, hoping for a resolution, peace and a sense of self, which never came. Because it can not come from something that is not the cure. The addiction is a short term solution of existential pain. And this is what reboot does, it hands you the mirror rather then the magnifying glass. So you can really look at yourself, your life and make decisions that will steer your life toward true existence.

 

[TakeActionNow]

Alright if i join in the discussion guys ?
Love the feeling of gathering here as opposed to the single room effect within our own journal.

Like Lyon, I see PMO as a consequence, not a cause.
We turn to it initially because of a need, and then the need is forgotten when it became a habit.

(It is the same as a label/name given to a feeling, and that label remains in your head even when the feeling or its reason for existence has long since faded,
and after that, the label continues to feed a fire whose reason for existence is nothing more than the label in your head.)

You will find that M is nothing more than a tiny tip of the iceberg.
The real fun begins when you decide to stop the M and start discovering who you really are. That journey is challenging, but nothing meaningful ever came easily.
And at the end of that journey is a perpetual sense of joy and bliss than no amount of M can ever give you.

 

[Alex48]

I confess something. I have been without PMO for almost 3 weeks and I am verifying it. This not to masturbate gives a bonus to the process. I begin to discover what they say. Beyond masturbating with certain periodicality and not commulsively I do not see it badly, not doing it is allowing me to see many things. It's like they say, the tip of the iceberg. Added to that I always saw a share of boredom to the fact of just masturbate, especially at this age.
So thanks for the comments.