Hi guys I have been rebooting for the last 5 months and have done OK with 1single relapse in this time. But to say I have a decent reboot I haven't noticed as much progress as I have previously and wondered if I need to avoid other forms of dopamine? I work part time and on my off days after I come home from the gym if I'm bored I find myself mindlessly surfing the Internet or playing videogames or watching TV. Would stopping or limiting this benefit the reboot?
Stopping other forms of dopamine
- Thread starter Mad Mike
- Start date
Hey, it's a good question and it's one I've been wrestling with in my own reboot. There are dopamine sources everywhere from sports to Scrabble to Instagram to Candy Crush... I guess you need to ask yourself the following:
- is this stopping me from doing other more productive things with my time?
- is this likely to develop into a habit in an of itself?
- is this likely to cause me to relapse?
So, to give you an example from my own life: I gave up posting on Facebook around 10 days into my latest reboot. I'd post something on Facebook and then regularly check to see how many likes / loves / laughs it had generated. I'd also then spend considerable amounts of time scrolling through FB, reading other people's posts, which fed into my own feelings of inadequacy. Was it stopping me from being productive? Yes. Did it develop into a compulsive habit? Yes. Did it just feed the same cravings for validation that I fed through porn and chatrooms? Yes.
Now of course, some people will be quite able to reboot without also quitting social media. But I don't think there's anything in your life that is beyond scrutiny. Be bold and examine yourself, and decide what stays and what goes.
- is this stopping me from doing other more productive things with my time?
- is this likely to develop into a habit in an of itself?
- is this likely to cause me to relapse?
So, to give you an example from my own life: I gave up posting on Facebook around 10 days into my latest reboot. I'd post something on Facebook and then regularly check to see how many likes / loves / laughs it had generated. I'd also then spend considerable amounts of time scrolling through FB, reading other people's posts, which fed into my own feelings of inadequacy. Was it stopping me from being productive? Yes. Did it develop into a compulsive habit? Yes. Did it just feed the same cravings for validation that I fed through porn and chatrooms? Yes.
Now of course, some people will be quite able to reboot without also quitting social media. But I don't think there's anything in your life that is beyond scrutiny. Be bold and examine yourself, and decide what stays and what goes.
Hey PE30 thanks for the reply to answer your questions no gaming and TV is not likely to cause a relapse Internet surfing has the potential to but I feel when I'm doing all 3 I could be doing something much more productive with my time, could they become habit forming? I would say yes particularly gaming as I often lose track of time. But the main question I ask is would stopping these improve the speed of the reboot as when I go on holiday for a couple of weeks I usually feel better.
Hi
I think any kind of avoidance / substitute behaviour has the potential to slow down a reboot - so yes, if you are able to keep yourself disciplined in this area then it will help with other areas of your life. You say you work part-time and go to the gym - do you think you could find something to do to bring your hours of work to full-time? You could use this reboot to start structuring your life in a way that makes the most of who you are.
I think any kind of avoidance / substitute behaviour has the potential to slow down a reboot - so yes, if you are able to keep yourself disciplined in this area then it will help with other areas of your life. You say you work part-time and go to the gym - do you think you could find something to do to bring your hours of work to full-time? You could use this reboot to start structuring your life in a way that makes the most of who you are.
doneatlast
Well-Known Member
PE30 makes good points.
Cutting them out isn't necessarily beneficial because of the dopamine itself, but the mindless action/reward system is often not as far removed from porn as we think it is. Anything that puts us into "Zombie Mode" is bad for a reboot; if an evening of video games was always followed by a PMO session, then you likely won't kick the PMO without sacrificing the video games... at least for the first few months, sorry to say. Same with the mindless internet surfing. For me, I had to get off of dating websites. On the surface they seemed like they were a perfect alternative. It got me talking to real people instead of watching porn, but the mindless clicking through, the reward system of checking for messages or hoping to see new profiles, it all put me on this weird roller coaster towards PMO, much like PE30 describes with Facebook.
On the other hand, often willpower is finite in any given day, because being willful takes energy. Our minds have a way of conserving energy, and automatic thoughts and motions are low energy solutions... mindfulness, attentiveness and willfulness take more energy. If you are 110% certain that a dopamine release is completely divorced from your PMO habits and you want it to take the place of porn, like chewing gum instead of smoking, then go for it.
One thing that doesn't get talked about nearly enough in regards to video games is what KIND of video game... different ones require different levels of attention. Level grinding in an MMO gets very different brain activity than a bullet-hell shooter, but that is another matter.
Cutting them out isn't necessarily beneficial because of the dopamine itself, but the mindless action/reward system is often not as far removed from porn as we think it is. Anything that puts us into "Zombie Mode" is bad for a reboot; if an evening of video games was always followed by a PMO session, then you likely won't kick the PMO without sacrificing the video games... at least for the first few months, sorry to say. Same with the mindless internet surfing. For me, I had to get off of dating websites. On the surface they seemed like they were a perfect alternative. It got me talking to real people instead of watching porn, but the mindless clicking through, the reward system of checking for messages or hoping to see new profiles, it all put me on this weird roller coaster towards PMO, much like PE30 describes with Facebook.
On the other hand, often willpower is finite in any given day, because being willful takes energy. Our minds have a way of conserving energy, and automatic thoughts and motions are low energy solutions... mindfulness, attentiveness and willfulness take more energy. If you are 110% certain that a dopamine release is completely divorced from your PMO habits and you want it to take the place of porn, like chewing gum instead of smoking, then go for it.
One thing that doesn't get talked about nearly enough in regards to video games is what KIND of video game... different ones require different levels of attention. Level grinding in an MMO gets very different brain activity than a bullet-hell shooter, but that is another matter.
W
William
Guest
We are going to have to adapt. We have to accept that High Speed Internet is here, forever. It is here, forever, like drugs, booze, cigs, etc., is here forever. Video games, super stimulus. Porn. Freely available sex. This is the reality we wake up in.
The key is owning ourselves. This addiction is not the first to be invented. It is not the last to be invented. It is not the last to be overcome. The human brain is an amusement park ride. We, you, need to understand ourselves. We can push buttons to get a high. We have to understand that the high is not something that just happens to us; we make it happen to us.
Psychology 101 needs to be taught pre K.
Dopamine is not a bad thing. Without it, we would not get out of bed in the morning. However, it is essential to understand that the brain can be tricked, by ourselves, to give that dopamine rush. OK. Now we know we can do it. Question: are we a slave to it? Answer: only if you want to be.
Live free.
W.
The key is owning ourselves. This addiction is not the first to be invented. It is not the last to be invented. It is not the last to be overcome. The human brain is an amusement park ride. We, you, need to understand ourselves. We can push buttons to get a high. We have to understand that the high is not something that just happens to us; we make it happen to us.
Psychology 101 needs to be taught pre K.
Dopamine is not a bad thing. Without it, we would not get out of bed in the morning. However, it is essential to understand that the brain can be tricked, by ourselves, to give that dopamine rush. OK. Now we know we can do it. Question: are we a slave to it? Answer: only if you want to be.
Live free.
W.
doneatlast
Well-Known Member
Mad Mike said:
If you're 100% certain that there are no psychological/behavioral links in your life between video games and PMO - combinations in settings, more porn like games (I did a search on steam for some games the other day, was blown away how many were basically hentai), unhealthy escapes from reality that cause brooding and negative thoughts and so forth - then I see it as a coin toss, and personally I'd withhold judgement until I saw real clinical data, or at least heard from a very strong authority on it, like Gary Wilson.
You may just have to try it both ways. Sometimes quitting mindless activities leaves us alone with our thoughts more than we're comfortable with.
My gut tells me that if you're asking the question, you may have some uneasiness about the time you're spending with the video games. Any activity that brings no practical benefit (like going to work, helping someone in need), personal edification (studying, reading, exercise, prayer/meditation) or genuine happiness runs the risk of being an unhealthy escape. It is like eating when you aren't hungry... you're gonna get fat. If you feel you're perpetuating in an internet and video game habit that you don't enjoy but you keep going anyway... yeah, it might be a good idea to quit.
Although, you're asking about ED specifically. The only thing that will cure PIED is time away from porn, and (in my opinion) any sexual pleasures that are too porn-like. For example, dating a girl and fantasizing about doing things with her that you saw in porn is not healthy sexuality outside of porn, it is trying to transform healthy sexuality INTO porn. It is the porn brain pathways trying to live on when the monitor is turned off, and will not help your physiology heal. To that more narrow goal, quitting internet or video games would (I suspect) only be helpful insofar as they help you avoid a relapse.
doneatlast
Well-Known Member
Jones said:
I'm not a smoker, but I can say that I've read that a lot of people on here have had much better success if they give it up. It might just be because it is associated with the bad habits... getting stoned was often a pre-requisite for a really intense porn session for them. It also could be about the relaxing of sense of will and purpose, though that may apply more to alcohol. I suspect that going into non-drinking mode would help for a lot of guys, not because they have alcohol problems or because I think alcohol is bad (I love a good drink, myself) but because it is a depressant and quite good at leading us wide open for relapse.
In any case, getting stoned likely won't speed up a reboot, so it could be worth a shot, depending on how much getting stoned is worth to you.
W
William
Guest
Hi Mike. So, everyone should understand that this addiction is a relatively recent invention. We invented the ability to use porn to become addicted to a dopamine hit less than 10-15 years ago. We being humanity. At the time we invented High Speed Internet, we did not appreciate we could use it to train our brains--yes it take training--to compulsively use porn to get high. Of course, cynically I would tell you, if we had know we could use it that way, we would have been attempting to invent it much earlier. Turns out humans like a dopamine high, which, in nature, obviously, occurs naturally, but we have through various means learned now to use external super stimuli to get achieve it.
For me, answering your question about games and TV is a pretty easy thing. In order to be successful you are going to have to re-train your brain. You have trained it to want that dopamine rush daily. Without that rush, porn would be boring to you. Though we do not understand it when it is happening, it takes time and effort to train our brains to become addicted to using porn for that.
To fix it you have to be self aware of what the problem is, and you have to be self aware about what the fix is. The fix is re-training your brain to live without P as a means of achieving the dopamine high it produces. Sexual thoughts naturally produce a dopamine rush. Porn can be used to boost sexual thoughts, thus making getting a dopamine rush very efficient.
I recommend the hard 90. That is 90 days no P, no PMO, no M, no O, no sex, no sexual thoughts--and that means planning in advance on how to stop a two second sexual thought from becoming a dopamine drenched sex opera in your head. I did not avoid TV in my reboot, but I did plan on tuning out sexual scenes, as in turning it off until it was past. As for games, there is enough science out there that indicates games can be a dopamine producer that I would recommend avoiding them during the hard 90. Not forever. Think of it as a temporary challenging time in your life to give your brain a course correction. Once you get rebalanced, you will find you don't want to get unbalanced again.
Hope this helps.
Much love.
Will I AM.
For me, answering your question about games and TV is a pretty easy thing. In order to be successful you are going to have to re-train your brain. You have trained it to want that dopamine rush daily. Without that rush, porn would be boring to you. Though we do not understand it when it is happening, it takes time and effort to train our brains to become addicted to using porn for that.
To fix it you have to be self aware of what the problem is, and you have to be self aware about what the fix is. The fix is re-training your brain to live without P as a means of achieving the dopamine high it produces. Sexual thoughts naturally produce a dopamine rush. Porn can be used to boost sexual thoughts, thus making getting a dopamine rush very efficient.
I recommend the hard 90. That is 90 days no P, no PMO, no M, no O, no sex, no sexual thoughts--and that means planning in advance on how to stop a two second sexual thought from becoming a dopamine drenched sex opera in your head. I did not avoid TV in my reboot, but I did plan on tuning out sexual scenes, as in turning it off until it was past. As for games, there is enough science out there that indicates games can be a dopamine producer that I would recommend avoiding them during the hard 90. Not forever. Think of it as a temporary challenging time in your life to give your brain a course correction. Once you get rebalanced, you will find you don't want to get unbalanced again.
Hope this helps.
Much love.
Will I AM.