28 And Done With Porn

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

Day 0

Blue, you're absolutely right. Tbh I don't think that looking at non-explicit stuff is okay, I'm under no illusion that it almost always leads to full PMO relapse. Maybe looking at that stuff is how it starts but it's not how it ends, for me at least.


Trigger warning

So yesterday I was feeling super low. I felt a lot of love for my wife and so I seduced her but when I tried to make love to her my dick didn't work at all. This threw me into an even lower mood, and I couldn't sleep at all. At a certain point, I decided to look at P subs on snapchat.

There was a clear decision moment there. I made a choice to do that instead of weathering the storm of the withdrawals and have a sleepless night if a sleepless night is what I needed to go through.

It then inevitably led to peeking and my wife woke up and asked me what I was doing. I was peeking and took responsibility straight away, didn't lie, and just said that I was peeking and that I'm sorry, I fucked up, and thanked her for catching me. She wasn't mad at all but asked to take my phone to her side of the bed. I gave it willingly. We cuddled for a while, she wasn't sleeping well either for other reasons.

Then, lots of interesting things started happening. I started noticing that although my brain really wanted relapse, as I dozed, I noticed that other non P-related thoughts were also arising in my mind. The urge was so strong but there were still other things going on in my mind. I was thinking about all sorts of other stuff besides P, but the P thoughts were the strongest when then came because I gave them attention. Eventually, the P thoughts began to subside and be replaced more by other thoughts. So I lay there for about an hour and a half and then I decided to give them attention to see what would happen (duh, that's the addiction talking, I'm not going to pretend like I was merely a detached observer in this whole thing, but I was certainly 90% more aware than I normally am during this type of occurrence). I made sure Wife was asleep and went into the other room to look at P on my laptop, just for a minute. Then I went back to bed and lay down again. Again, the same thing. No sleep, urges for P strong, cuddles with wife good, eventually, P thoughts subsided and other pleasant thoughts came in. Occasional P thoughts but nothing major.

This morning I woke up at like 7:30 having barely slept. I went to get my phone and immediately just decided to relapse. The trigger was lack of sleep and I felt sorry for myself for not getting it up the night before. Hilarious that the brain can tell me such things, since P is the very reason I couldn't get it up, but still. I watched P for a good couple of hours, PMO'ing twice.

Okay so a relapse happened, but what was it about this relapse that was different?

I started noticing what you guys said about that decision moment. I started noticing that I actually can very well weather the storm of withdrawal, and that I would much rather feel shitty because I haven't watched P in a long time, than feel shitty because I just watched P.

I'd rather feel terrible, suicidal, socially anxious, unmotivated, irritable because I hadn't watched P, than because I had watched P. I'd rather feel awful but know that I am a responsible captain, guiding my ship lovingly through a tumultuous storm.

We have to see it like this: We are like a ship that has literally been built to be hardy, tough, and storm-going. We are no normal ship that could hit a rock and sink. But in order for us to realise the capability of our ship and not hit a rock, we need to have some skill. The skill is to just ride the storm and steer occasionally, all the while keeping calm. The hardy, tough, awesome ship that we have will do the rest.

We are all actually awesome and our brains are awesome, too. It's so easy to get into self-loathing and think that we're weak but this time, as I watched the urges subside I realised how much attention I give them when they're there. It's totally fine for them to be there, just like it's totally fine for there to be a storm and a rocks near a ship that was built for storms.

I realised how adaptable my brain is, and how I'm going to get through this next storm with gratitude. You know what, the next time they arise I'm going to say to the higher power (or the inner self), thank you. Thank you for this, because this is clearly what I need to go through in this moment, otherwise it wouldn't be happening to me. Thank you for always knowing what is best for me, and showing me that suffering is never permanent.

This might sound really Hindu of me but this is my prayer:

O Universe, as I guide my ship on the ocean of Samsara, let me be reminded by your divine grace that I am One and not separate. Let me be reminded that to go through turmoil and to come out the other side is equal to waking up from this dream of life. To suffer terribly and to remain alive to notice its cessation is to realise the true nature of reality, that all is passing, even death. Thank you for making it so obvious. My only true prayer is to wake up, to achieve Enlightenment in this lifetime. You, divine Brahman are all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful. You are formless but you dwell in all forms. I am of you, and you are me truly, before this form was imbued with the self-awareness to develop an identity as a person. I now know I must weather this storm, whatever it takes, and I know that peace and Truth will be waiting for me, whenever that may be.


This may not make sense for everyone reading this but it came from the heart and I just wanted to write it out. I don't mind if you don't get it or think I'm cray .

 

[gragnok]

That last post was super helpful for another person on a day zero, thank you!
Lots of good stuff in there. And I?m inspired to go and meditate right after this.
And now it?s about the reaction to failure, personally this is a different feeling day zero fro me, I?m less mad at myself and realize it?s a process. I like how you also had how many times you?ve viewed p in x days. That seems productive. Anyways thanks and keep going!

 

[BlueHeronFan]

It's good that you're getting some experience with just how deliberate we can be when it comes to urges and relapses. We can talk about it all we want, but experiencing it makes it click. Even if things didn't turn out perfectly, I think you're coming away with a potentially powerful learning experience.

I also like the ship analogy. The storms will come, and we can decide how we'll steer the ship when they do. The urge storms make us panic, so we make silly decisions (like peeking/steering into some smaller rocks because we think it won't be as bad as hitting the big rocks...still rocks, though). But our boats are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for. In the end, the storm can't really hurt us if we stay calm on the open water.

Cool stuff. You have got me thinking again about how this addiction has, every step of the way, given me reason after reason to improve as a person. It's such a difficult thing to beat, and it has required so much of me. As awful and unfortunate as it has been, it has also been a powerful and constant source of motivation for me. Every new attempt to fight back has turned me into a better and stronger person. Sometimes I wonder if I ever would have had a reason to grow as much as I have if it weren't for this addiction to remind me I still have work to do.

 

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Hey man really good you took all of this stuff in. Sometimes we can take something in and it takes some time to settle.

Like my last relapse awhile back, I decided that MO was okay.... everyone advised me otherwise, but I still tried just moing. I learned for myself that it is NOT okay for me. Once I had the experience everyone else's wisdom really sank in and now I REALLY know.

So, I think you are getting a lot of input here, you understand it consciously, but it may take relapses until you are sick of relapsing for the information to really stick.


I am going to also mention something, that I think is different from what I hear from most others here. So everyone please feel very very free to disagree as I can learn from your disagreements:

I think being mad at oneself and a bit hard on oneself is not always that bad. I always hear the key to overcoming a relapse is like don't be too hard on yourself but that hasn't been the case for me. When I'd relapse and NOT be hard on myself, I'd relapse again pretty easily a few days later and I'd keep doing it until I WAS hard on myself. Like it almost always took being absolutely furious and miserable about the pmo to really get totally back on the horse.

I aim to be very positive as much as I can, but I think negative motivation can be useful too. Like if we are feeling so down anxious etc. it's hard to be motivated by the positive, but if it's like man relapsing I'll hate myself and it's about as bad as death, that can keep things moving.

Like maybe you can be fucking miserable and suicidal when you relapse and even when you think about relapsing, instead of feeling that way before you relapse and while your dick doesn't work and then feeling clarity and not so hard on yourself after you relapse.

Like let's look at this from a super basic like Pavlov's dog brain perspective:

Your dick didn't work. You feel horrible
Urges you feel horrible
Sleep awfully feel horrible
PMO'd  -Don't feel horrible
Afterward not too hard on self- Got a bunch of nice insights about how to quit pmo.

So thats like reinforcing that same loop. On a subconscious immediate level, PMO still dulled the emotions and made you feel good. What if instead relapse felt EVEN WORSE then all the urges and dick not working etc?

Plus you already know but all the bullshit that you felt beforehand, dick not working etc. is from the pmo. So it can help to relapse and have that horrible realization as soon as you cum, that your dick isn't going to work now and that sucks. Uggghhh makes my skin crawl just thinking about moing and the feeling right after of knowing I just threw away my erections. Gosh that is fucking horrible. I wish that that pmo was a living creature so that I could fucking kill it and stomp on the body. (Yes I know I am little crazy lol) but literally thinking about that shit, that is how I feel, which I think is pretty useful for what we are aiming to accomplish here.

If you want to try a little bit of this mindset: Maybe really remember this relapse. And the next time your dick does not work with your wife, realize that this relapse is responsible. Let that pain of your dick not working be directly connected to the relapse, because it literally is.

Also, for me one of the most common relapse scenarios is the laying in bed with urges, rather then getting up and doing other stuff. I'd say the lack of sleep didn't trigger the relapse, laying in bed with the urges for hours did. Works better to just accept like "okay, I have urges I might not sleep tonight to get through them, that's fine I won't sleep."


Also last thing, as far as the business it's just normal to be stressed as fuck starting a business dealing with people etc. it's really hard. I know that might not make it feel better, but it's just totally normal. Just gotta find HEALTHY new ways to handle the stress. (much easier said then done)

Edit: Also man thanks for being so open about everything. Hearing about your stuff and thinking about it helps us too. Like now I am like a psychopath obsessed with "killing" pmo. The thought of even fantazing about girls right now fills me with rage (not at the girls lol) since I know it can potentially trigger me. This mindset works for me. I know might fit into the more yoga approach lol.

 

[BlueHeronFan]

Like let's look at this from a super basic like Pavlov's dog brain perspective:

Your dick didn't work. You feel horrible
Urges you feel horrible
Sleep awfully feel horrible
PMO'd  -Don't feel horrible
Afterward not too hard on self- Got a bunch of nice insights about how to quit pmo.

So thats like reinforcing that same loop. On a subconscious immediate level, PMO still dulled the emotions and made you feel good. What if instead relapse felt EVEN WORSE then all the urges and dick not working etc?

You know, this is a sharp insight. And I think you're right.

As I have been learning not to be too hard on myself, I think part of that has meant sparing myself the self-hatred that usually comes with a relapse, but I think it's also easy to mis-hear the advice as giving ourselves a free pass.

One time, I heard that the difference between guilt and shame is like this: Guilt makes us feel bad so that we commit to change and do better. Shame makes us feel bad so that we give up and wallow in our bad behavior. Guilt is useful. Shame keeps us trapped.

In some ways, not being too hard on myself has actually meant setting much higher expectations for myself. I just try to do it without adding a bunch of emotional pain on top of everything else. Instead of treating myself like my own worst enemy, I treat myself as someone who needs my help, help only I can give. Setting high standards for myself and being strict about staying clean comes from a place of care and kindness instead of self-punishment. For me, at least, that has been a key.

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

In 41 days I watched P 10 times
Consecutive days clean: 0

Shit. Relapsed x2 (one last night one this morning). Had a really good day generally - spent it fixing something on the truck with my buddy, decorating the xmas tree and day drinking. Wife and I got pretty smashed during the day but it started wearing off (I don't know if this had something to do with relapse). Anyway 9pm came around and wife just went to bed without saying anything to me which triggered some kind of bullshit abandonment complex in me. I uploaded one photo to instagram (the first one in over 8 months - I never use it because it's trigger city). Anyway, I saw a very triggering image on it. At first I clicked off, but then I started to snowball shit in my mind and I noticed something in the decision making process that is actually really obvious. I give myself a lot of very negative self talk, often. It's a habit, and especially when it's PMO related, it just seems so real. 'Oh well, I'm a piece of shit and no one loves me anyway so I may as well do it', or stuff of that nature. It's total bullshit, but I usually just believe it in that moment.

People say you only fail when you give up, well, in those moments I give up. I feel like shit about myself and so I use P to medicate.

@quit I think you have a point and @Blue answered pretty much how I would have answered, too. There's a difference between shame and guilt. I'm trying to be responsible without all the self-hatred that comes with relapse.

I feel like I know a lot about recovery now, I feel like I'm implementing a lot of stuff that I've been learning from you guys. When this happened today I feel like I took steps backwards, but so much of this recovery is to do with self-image. If I see myself as just a piece of shit I'm always going to turn to P. If I see myself as a loveable, beautiful human being that needs to work on undoing a bad habit, then I'm in the right mindset. Every time I let myself go back into this bullshit negative fantasy that I'm just some piece of shit who no one loves, I'm exacerbating things.

I was excluded and bullied for much of my life at school. I usually felt like a piece of shit who no one loved. That's why I turned to P in the first place. I think that most of the time, when I feel good about myself, I don't relapse. When I let myself tell myself that I'm worthless, all I want to do is relapse. It's like I go into apocalypse mode where nothing matters and I don't care how much damage I cause myself or others because I'm worthless anyway. It's fucking trauma that causes this, and I don't know how to deal with it, to be honest. P is kind of a distraction. I guess I've gotta just practise what I preach and weather the storm, but this one really caught me off guard. It was like it was out of nowhere.

I feel like I owe an apology to all of you who comment on my journal. You keep giving such good advice and when the time comes I seem to ignore it. I know how frustrating it must be to deal with someone who literally won't help themselves. I fucked up, there's no doubt about that. Please don't give up on me. I will get there.

EDIT: As posted in quit's journal: Reading quit's last posts I now think I have a better idea of what you mean by negative motivation. It was hard for me to find that negative motivation until the other day when my dick didn't work with my wife. The 'it's not so bad homeostasis' has definitely been a thing for me, so thanks for noticing it and pointing it out. Some people are good at harnessing negative motivation for good. Sometimes I'm just negative, and there's no motivation to be found whatsoever. In these moments, turning my self-hatred into motivation seems impossible, really. I guess I'll start trying this next time I feel the urge to relapse. I do remember that in my over 3 months streak ages ago, negative motivation was a factor but not the only type of motivation that I used to get through. It was definitely the 'it's not so bad' complacency that led me back to PMO in the end so there's definitely wisdom in what you say.

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

So, after every relapse, something needs to change in order to learn from it. I can't remember where I read that, but I've been trying to make changes after every single slip up so as to avoid complacency and sinking back into the status quo.

So, after I posted on here the first time, I wrote a daily plan for the mornings (when I'm always alone and have the most time).

It may seem basic, but I have a lot of time to kill. I think a bit of structure could help me during the week to stay focused and engaged with the reboot.

I have tried this approach before numerous times, but have never been able to stick to it. I think it's because I always try to fit too much into the day and then get stressed when something takes longer than expected and eventually, relapse and fall off the horse. This time I've tried to make it a little bit more achievable. I wonder what your opinions are?

So, here is my new daily plan, and it might not seem like much but it is a start towards developing more healthy habits:

7-8am wake up, make and eat healthy breakfast, drink coffee, clean up kitchen if needed (I've given myself some time here because I'm slow in the morning).

8-9am 30 mins meditation + 30 minutes reading OR 30 mins silent contemplation time

9-10:15am weights work out on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. Mondays and Thursday mornings I usually hike with my friend T, and weekends are rest days or I hike with my wife.

10:15-11am shower, get dressed, post workout meal

11am-12pm work on stuff for music school. (If this takes longer then it can take up part of the next time slot)

12pm-1pm write on journal or practise music

1-1:30pm Lunch

1:30 - 2:30pm Practise music

After this I am pretty much with my wife for the rest of the day and teaching until the evening.


I have realised that moments of low self-esteem and self-hatred trigger relapses. I think that sticking to this daily plan will start to have a positive effect on how I feel about myself, making it also easier to deal with urges when they arise. It includes very important meditation and contemplation time of one hour dedicated time a day. It also includes workouts.


When I'm productive, it's easier to 'postpone' relapse, because I have more important stuff to do, and little bit of structure could help. The next couple of days may see a bit of disruption to this plan as I'm meeting with my wife's grandpa for a coffee. Some days this may happen, but with this plan, I can just pick up where I left off.

 

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Hey man, no problem if it takes awhile to implement these changes! Addiction is not something we are trying to do. Many of us, myself included, have been working on this for YEARS. So we understand not being able to implement everything right away. If it worked that way for me, I'd be all better by now....

Man, you're not alone on the self hatred thing man. I get those feelings too. Like full on. Plus I feel you on the past feeling rough I got in lots of fights as a kid, few/no friends. Was bullied by family. I feel you man. One helpful thing FOR ME, is thinking of these feelings, not as something underlying the addiction, that come up when you are clean but as part of it ...

There is a concept from SMART recovery called the "PIG"- Problem of Immediate Gratification. They postulate that when we feel pain we go to the addiction to feel better. Well DUH, we all know that. But they go further, when we feed the PIG, the PIG grows!

Our addicted brain thinks PMO is good for us. When we hate ourselves and feel upset, it drives us to use PMO. So the addiction makes more and more things upset us and makes us feel hate for ourselves more intensely. The more we do it, the more we have those feelings. It's a cycle. The self-hatred feeds the addiction and the addiction feeds the self-hatred. I don't mean you hate yourself because of the PMO addiciton. I mean the addiction creates these feelings as a reason to relapse!

So yes, maybe the rough childhoods that many of us had, made us susceptible to PMO  and addiction in general to escape those feelings. But now, many of our lives have changed (like we always say you are in an awesome place) I think we can forget the childhood to a good extent but the PMO rather then just numbing these feelings from our childhood in the short term..... Keeps them alive for the long term!

Because the PIG/PMO addiction creates the feelings to feed itself, the addiction itself is the link to keeping these feelings alive.

I am very confident this is the case for me and your feelings sound the same as mine so I suspect they are the same for you as well.

You don't constantly feel like you hate yourself. But you get these massively intense nothing matters, I hate myself feelings that make it very hard to resist pmo because nothing matters anyway.....

They arrive intensely lead to the PMO and then are often gone....

Man two three weeks ago. My brain was going "I hate myself" " I hate myself" "I hate myself". I had urges to pmo.... But I got through them and got calm and that thought makes no sense AT ALL now.

Anyways, hopefully didn't get off track. But this, I believe is why the focus on recovery and not needing to delve too deeply into the past works sometimes. By cutting off the PMO addiction and getting through the feelings, the PIG/Addiction weakens, these feelings are not pulled up so much and can naturally fade away to an extent (everyone on earth feels bad about themselves sometimes).

Not sure I explained this totally right so I'll try and cliff notes it to make sure I am clear:


Addiction CREATES feelings of nothing matters and self-hatred. It does this as a rationalization to use the DOC (drug of choice) porn in our cases. Each time we act on the feelings and use porn. That loop gets stronger. We will MORE EASILY get feelings of self-hatred as they get us to use the addictive substance. Finally these feelings are often short lasting, and viewing them as a trick of the addiction, rather then as a result of our childhoods makes it far easier to get through them.

Finally: Yes we likely did have some of these feelings that INITIALLY drove us to the addiction. But naturally, feelings like this can fade over time, in different life circumstances. But they are part of the addiction, and the addiction does not want to die. So the addiction CREATES them and keeps them alive to keep itself alive. So the addiction is the fuel, in large part, feeding these feelings. The pain was real, but it'll fade but the addiction won't allow it to fade as it is recreating it over and over even if it's TOTALLY IRRATIONAL.

This is also why I think the concept of negative motivation in the way I said it helps. Parts of beating an addiction are rough and are going to suck... because the addiction makes sure of it! It sends us all sorts of bullshit thoughts and feelings to try and bring us back...

( I hated myself for sending on awkward email for example WTF? That was the work of the addiction.... I didn't PMO and the next day I felt awesome. The feeling failed to get me to relapse so it faded away.)



The book rational recovery has word for word scripts the addicted brain will say to try and get us to do relepse: I don't even need to mention them, they are literally exactly what you wrote.... So these thoughts can be viewed as part of the addiction itself I think.

 

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Finally, much of what is going on with addiction is SUBCONSCIOUS and emotional. So again it's fine if things don't click, even understanding things isn't always enough. The feelings become intense and it is hard to remember what we know, but the knowledge can help a little.

That being said, a simply practical thing:

When I get the feelings of self-hatred I just post a SHIT ton in my journal. It helps. I write it out and being on this forum helps me to realize that those feelings ain't real,and that they'll fade.

Just an hour ago, I felt like total shit, I posted read your post in my journal and that helped me to remove myself from it and be like "okay, just ignore the bullshit in my mind for now, the addiction is doing some weird shit in my brain"

 

[BlueHeronFan]

Just some scattered thoughts:

Time is an essential ingredient in recovery. I've probably said it here before (I have definitely said in other journals). Even when you do everything right, it still takes time for changes to become visible. It's not flipping a switch. Like even when you're sick and you get an antibiotic, you're not better after the first dose. You get better as you continue to take medicine over time. You can be doing the right things and still relapse as you make new adjustments. It takes time for them to take effect.

I think you're exactly right about making a concrete change in your life after every relapse. I have always thought about it as reinforcing another part of my armor. When I relapse, I have discovered a new weakness in my armor, so I know that that is the spot where I need to spend some extra attention. If you relapse with too much free time, a schedule is exactly the right thing to do. I know planning my days has been a huge help to me. Just don't give yourself time to relapse, and it'll get harder to do.

It also sounds like negative emotions are definitely a recurring trigger. Probably parts of your new schedule will help you address those, but what can you do to reinforce your self-worth? I didn't fully realize it until sort of after the fact, but I used to make ugly faces at myself in the mirror and say violent things, not necessarily at myself but also at my reflection. In the past few months, I have tried to stop doing that, and I have even tried to say some positive things in the mirror, even things like, "Hey, you're trying your best. It's going to be okay." Such a simple thing, but I have noticed that I treat the mirror version of myself a lot better than I used (and I wasn't being consciously cruel to myself, but it has helped to be consciously supportive). Just a random thing to think about.

There is a real gap between knowing what to do and actually doing it. We always know more things than we do. Step by step, though, we can work on putting one more thing into practice and then another and then another as we get more skilled at each one. Step by step, day by day. Just keep marching!

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

In 48 days I watched P 11 times
Consecutive days clean: 1

I fed the pig one time yesterday. It upset my wife and this time instead of getting defensive I just listened to her. It made her cry and I felt bad. I needed this negative motivation at this point.

Quit, that is some serious wisdom you dropped. I think it's absolutely true that it's the addiction and not the trauma talking. This has helped me take more responsibility, so thank you.

I went 7 days this time round, but this time the feeling wasn't self-hatred it was boredom. I was also a bit annoyed at my wife because on the last weekend before we move, she was invited to go and see a matinee show and spontaneously went away leaving me at home by myself to prepare for the move. I felt butt-hurt because I didn't want to do it by myself and I hate organising and packing shit anyway.

All in all it was just the PIG - Problem of Instant Gratification, talking. I didn't want to pack shit up for the move because my brain saw the opportunity to feed the PIG and watch porn instead. It all seemed really appealing at the time till my wife wanted to do it later on that day and I had to tell her that I relapsed and then she cried.

At the end of the day, you guys are helping me so much. After my last relapse last week I bought a book 'Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction' by Jack Trimpey. I think I saw some of you mention it on your journals and so I bought it and it should arrive today or tomorrow. I will be looking forward to reading it.

I like the idea, Blue, of saying positive things in the mirror. I try to look at myself with love and often consciously say positive affirmations, but I think that sometimes subconsciously, especially when I've been feeding the PIG, I don't like what I see and say mean things in my head to my reflection.

All in all, reading back through your comments I still think I am more or less on the right track. We move into our new house tomorrow, so I'm going to keep this house a porn-free zone. This new house represents a new beginning and a new start as a fully functioning adult and home-owner. It represents a new phase in my life and a period of greater responsibility. This may well be the house I will have my first child in!

I also got my temporary employment authorization through the other day (good for one year but will be replaced by the green card once I qualify), so once I'm settled in, I may get a morning job maybe at a gym as I used to be a personal trainer, in order to supplement our household income, help pay the mortgage, and increase my self-worth by providing.

It's funny, I notice a pattern, and sure, it's the addiction talking but here's what I've noticed:

Whenever someone I love leaves either to go far away or leaves me alone so they can spend time with other people (usually contrary to our plan), I am at my highest risk of relapse. My body goes into anxiety. When I was a kid in boarding school my parents used to always have to leave me and so this would cause massive anxiety and depression as I hated it and was bullied. It's a funny old thing, but the addiction definitely uses this to create feelings of abandonment and anxiety which feed my addiction. I guess this is just another thing to be super conscious of.

I don't know when I'm next gonna be able to write on this journal because I'll likely be pretty busy with the move, but I will attempt to make time soon.

Love you all and thank you for your ongoing support.

 

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Hey, getting through a week sounds like progress/ an upward trend. You just have to keep chipping away at it.

Glad you got that book, I don't fully follow just that system, but it has some useful stuff. Particularly about the thoughts that pop up to try and make us go to the addiction. It's cool because some of it is word for word what I have thought (and probably all of us) so it shows the thoughts aren't really accurate just a part of the addiction. You've got me thinking, I may reread that book.

 

[BlueHeronFan]

Good luck with the move!

I'm not a fan of packing up boxes, either, but sometimes it just has to happen. It's awesome that good things in life are moving forward for you, like the house and the employment authorization. All of those things can help contribute to your self-esteem and sense of well-being. (And all of that can help limit your felt need for PMO.)

Keep pressing forward, staying alert, mindful, and deliberate. As you recognize more and more subtle triggers and little patterns of addiction, get in your own way and disrupt those patterns as quickly as possible. Every time you do, you teach your brain a new way to live.

 

[achilles heel]

I hope you're still busy in a positive way and all is going well! 

Finally found the time to catch up with your story as there were really long and interesting conversations going on. Some advices sounded rather harsh, but I agree as fighting this addiction is a "number one priority in life"-thing and nothing that can be done passing by. If quitting YouTube is necessary, YouTube has to go. I made the same mistake over and over again with my cell phone at home, because it really sucks to not be able to communicate from home - but it's necessary and overcoming porn is my biggest desire concerning my personal development. Now if this is your number 1 priority too, change EVERYTHING necessary and you will see how you improve despite reduced comfort in life.

It's funny, I notice a pattern, and sure, it's the addiction talking but here's what I've noticed:

Whenever someone I love leaves either to go far away or leaves me alone so they can spend time with other people (usually contrary to our plan), I am at my highest risk of relapse. My body goes into anxiety. When I was a kid in boarding school my parents used to always have to leave me and so this would cause massive anxiety and depression as I hated it and was bullied. It's a funny old thing, but the addiction definitely uses this to create feelings of abandonment and anxiety which feed my addiction. I guess this is just another thing to be super conscious of.

This really made me think about lots of moments in the past. It's not only rejection, but also abandonment even in "normal situations" that led me back to relapsing many times before. Fighting addiction brings up some unpleasant topics, but it helps us improve as persons as we need to confront ourselves with things we ran away from. Your observation was really helpful for me!

Hope to read an update about you doing well and advancing in recovery! Keep going! 

 

[wecandoit]

It's funny, I notice a pattern, and sure, it's the addiction talking but here's what I've noticed:

Whenever someone I love leaves either to go far away or leaves me alone so they can spend time with other people (usually contrary to our plan), I am at my highest risk of relapse. My body goes into anxiety. When I was a kid in boarding school my parents used to always have to leave me and so this would cause massive anxiety and depression as I hated it and was bullied. It's a funny old thing, but the addiction definitely uses this to create feelings of abandonment and anxiety which feed my addiction. I guess this is just another thing to be super conscious of.

I have a similar story. In first grade, after mom took me to school for a couple of months I started going there by myself. I was bullied too and it was this feeling that I left a safe, nice place (my home) and went to a hostile environment. Addictions definitely find our insecurities and feeds on them. I started masturbating before I could watch porn (to nudity from movies and music videos), probably it had something to do with the bullying at school. I see porn addiction like "hugging and soothing", if you know what I mean. You come home from school then watch some music videos and jerk off to them because you want to be soothed after some idiots did something to you at school. I mean, I have this problem with showing weakness. I've always had. This is the main reason why I've never tried therapy. I couldn't bring myself to show myself in a state that I considered weak, even if in front of me was a doctor and not anybody. That's why I never told my parents about the bullying, I hated to be perceived as weak even by my own parents. So masturbation became my refuge. It was like "Don't worry about the bullying, man. We will go home, watch music channel and jerk off then jerk off to flashbacks of that scene in that movie from 3 days ago". Then when porn came into my life, I really binged. It was like finally being given what I wanted in abundance, without even knowing what the fuck I was getting into. Of course the same thing stayed with me. Now when I have anxiety or depression, the first thing that comes into my mind is go home and look for some nice porn. And also, by its nature, porn addiction is a form of isolation because you jerk off to porn alone in your room (or away from people anyway. It's not like you PMO with your wife/parents/gf/relatives around). To give yourself the "fix" you make yourself be alone.

 

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Yes Addiction is certainly isolating. Useful insight that porn is fulfilling some desires, to feel safe etc. I think a really helpful part of recovery is getting those needs met in other ways. For me a big part of porn was "getting lost from reality" but reading fiction can be a good replacement, it's not as intense but it fills the need in a healthy way that has me feeling much better after.

It is cool though, so many possibilities of cool activities to replace porn. I got into candlelight, candles can be super nice and soothing. Warm baths can be good. Excitement also was one need porn was trying to meet but there are so many fun sports etc. that can replace it. Knowing what porn was trying to fulfill and replacing it.

 

[wecandoit]

Yes Addiction is certainly isolating. Useful insight that porn is fulfilling some desires, to feel safe etc. I think a really helpful part of recovery is getting those needs met in other ways. For me a big part of porn was "getting lost from reality" but reading fiction can be a good replacement, it's not as intense but it fills the need in a healthy way that has me feeling much better after.

I liked to binge PMO because it gave me that numbed state where I didn't feel anything.

 

[kadeshzelbriel]

Just wanna say I got super inspired looking at your routine plans. I've been on-again off-again with disciplined routine for like 10 years now and I'm a HUGE believer in how incredible it can be for my life, even just to TRY. It's probably like only 5-10% of the last 10 years have I actually managed to stick to a disciplined routine like that, but that moment of realizing it's important and coming back to it time and again, and then finally managing to stick to some of it every once in awhile, is a huge rush for me and definitely things really start to click when the discipline takes over. I'd love to hear how this is going so far.

Yes to what everyone is saying around how this stuff takes time to implement, and it can be rough in the early going (and later on) when that moment of inspiration doesn't translate into you "feeling like it" over the next days, but I really really believe if you have that clarity and come back to it again and again, even if it takes a long long time between those moments, it can be really really transformative.

And yes again just wanna say just looking at your schedule made me feel super inspired and I've been practicing more discipline in my morning routine since seeing that because I could just catch the flavor of inspiration and I remembered how fucking good it feels.

 

[Kraken]

There is some great knowledge in the past few pages.  You can do it adventurer!  If you really want it, you can go pmo free.  I'm glad the other parts of your life sound like they are going well!

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

- In 64 Days I watched P 13 times

- Last streak: 15 Days

- Consecutive days clean: 0

Guys, this is all great advice! Thank you for the support. Things have been really busy these past two weeks. Moved into our new house (I'm now officially a home-owner - crazy!), and on 26th we went and rescued an 8 week old puppy. She's super cute but I also haven't been sleeping very well 'cos she often needs to go outside in the night and it takes her ages to settle down after that because she wants to play and just whines if I put her back in her pen.

The past couple of weeks were really good - moved into the new house, many things could have triggered me which were stressful, the main one being my father-in-law throwing a wobbly and leaving early when I went to get firewood... apparently I did something to majorly piss him off but instead of bringing it up with me he just bitched to my wife and his wife about it and left. Super weird behaviour. But that night I sat by my firepit in my yard and processed it and let it go. No need to medicate with relapse .

Had sex also a couple of times in the last two weeks, both times really good. No issues.

So what happened with the relapse? Well, I was starting to feel shitty (always do at around the 2 week mark) - depressed, mind telling me all kinds of negative shit, etc etc. Said I need to go process it but then watched TV instead which is not the same as actually sitting with the feelings and processing them. It was tempting to watch TV because Wife was watching Lord of The Rings and I love that movie, so I 'put off' sitting with these negative feelings and looking at them.

Wife calls me up yesterday morning crying her eyes out 'cos her hormones are going mental and her vision is going super weird (she gets occular migraines really bad, and a lot worse since she's had the bar in her arm). The bar in her arm (birth control) has been fucking with her consistently since she got it in 2.5 years ago but never this bad. She had to take the morning off and go see the doctor to get the bar taken out. I couldn't be there because we don't have a second car and I was with the puppy who can't be left alone yet, and I can't take a dog in an uber, so I had to stay at home and let her parents help her (who live very close to the stables where she rides and works). My addiction used this to put me into a really odd state of worry. This whole thing took me off guard, and it obviously sucked that I couldn't be there, and I obviously was genuinely worried, especially since I couldn't be there, but I started to rationalise the use of Vimeo and downloaded the app onto my new smart TV. One thing led to another and I ended up peeking at P intermittently throughout the day on other devices, culminating in PMO in the middle of the night. Then this morning another PMO. Fine, but why?

I mentioned in my last post that when someone leaves or I feel abandonment or something l feel triggered. The addiction uses it as its main excuse for relapse. Well, I realised that maybe I've been relying to much on her for emotional support, and so when she's unable to act in that capacity, I feel abandoned (addiction triggers the feeling), and then it makes it very easy to rationalise relapse. It's like when I'm not getting the right kind of attention, I want to relapse. It's very selfish, really.

I guess I'm realising just how selfish addiction is. Even yesterday as I was sitting here peeking all morning, I was pretty much ignoring the puppy. But when I look at her and cuddle her I feel so warm inside because she's ridiculously awesome and cute. I was sitting right next to a sleeping puppy who needs and wants my attention and I chose dopamine instead of oxytocin. That's messed up.

The YouTube thing seems to no longer be an issue, because now I have my personal account logged in on my Smart TV so anyone can see my recommendations and history. Vimeo, though, got me.
This morning it was TikTok, which I downloaded on my phone in that haze that you get when you relapsed and just don't give a fuck.

@wecandoit I can totally relate to what you say. Like a 'warm hug' totally hits the nail on the head. I also never admitted to anyone that I had depression and anxiety as a child because I didn't want to look weak. My mum was being cheated on by my dad and she often spoke of suicide to me and so I knew I couldn't tell her that I was suicidal too. My dad is not good with emotional stuff but now we get along much better since my parents reconciled their relationship. Home was also a toxic environment, with them always shouting at each other and slamming doors, etc. so there was really nowhere where I felt safe. I also have no siblings. Later on, when I moved back home at 13 and moved to another city, P became exactly the thing I was looking for to soothe the pain and numb me out. It was exactly what I wanted as I felt like I was fixing myself by watching it. So, exactly like you, it was my medication and my caregiver.

Now I don't need a caregiver or medication, but I do need to remember that I am loveable, and that I am loved. Even if I was the only person left on this entire planet, I would need to remember that, because it's true. I myself am love. Each of us are embodiments of love. Deep down, underneath all the mind's tricks and games, all there is is love. Some call it God's love, Buddha's love, or the Universe's love. In the same way that black isn't a colour but the absence of light, negative emotions are not ultimately true, they are the absence of love. Love underpins all life. It is what created the universe and what sustains it. How strange that we go about living this life unaware of the love that we are? We have to access the love that is beyond human comprehension or expression, inherent within us. I can't put it into words.

This insight came to me during a turbulent urge-storm last week:

Love should be the focus not the afterthought.

We are ultimately born alone and die alone. This life is full of suffering and will inevitably lead to death. What is this life for then if it's not for freedom? What is this life for if it's not to live in truth? What is this life for if it's not for love?

I love you all and I hope you all have a very Happy New Year.