Slovenly Love Making

[chiefmitch88]

Just wanted to get a woman's perspective on this subject.

Is it wrong of me to expect my wife to make an effort as far as being sexy is concerned? I feel as a man that I have a standard to refrain from being a slob, hygiene and dress are ways that we show others we respect their senses. I try to dress appropriately and wear an outfit that is visually appealing so that my wife can look at me and feel some sort of pride because I am looking good. If there was lingerie for men that she enjoyed I would probably don it just to put a smile on her face  ;D I make romantic gestures, I buy sincere and heartfelt gifts. These sentiments are rarely reciprocated back to me I might add.
Most times, when it comes to her propositioning me for sex I am lucky if she has showered and she is usually still wearing her PJ's and her night cap. She doesn't make an effort to maintain any sense of mystery (i.e. talking to me with the bathroom door open while she's doing her business). When I say something about it she complains that I should love her the way she is. While I do agree with that, I would still enjoy it if she made the effort to clean up and make an attempt at being physically appealing. Especially if you want to take the time to sooth each other and escape from reality for a moment. I just feel like my lovemaking must be scheduled and that it must fit into the allotted time of her demanding itinerary for the day. Are my needs being neglected or am I just being a whiny baby? Or should I just give up on this idea of any form of lust existing between her and I?

 

[Gracie]

I read your journal and now of these things was mentioned there.  You talked about her wanting more sex.  So what is it that you need for her "to be sexy?"  There were no mentions of her hygiene etc.  My husband was wanting lingerie etc. when he was in the midst of his addiction.  Now that we have worked through the hard part, lingerie is not as appealing to him.  Has she always had the bathroom door open?  In your journal you have talked about taking it slow and now you complain about needing to schedule lovemaking. 

This all sounds like the addict brain saying she does not do this, she is not this or that.  By golly I am entitled to some fun.  Resist the urge.  Finding fault with her is a way to excuse the porn.  Turn to her not porn.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

I'm with Gracie on this one.

I think rationalization is afoot.

 

[chiefmitch88]

I feel that physical attraction is a force of nature. We can supplement it with confidence. Having a good genetic makeup is also helpful. Having control of our habits shows a power of will that is attractive as well.
Writing off "the need to have a sexy partner" as a fault I need to fix in my head seems too lofty to reach. I feel I would be lying if at some point in the future I said otherwise.
I do not need a woman in lingerie, that is not what I had in mind when I was pleading my case I merely was highlighting my motivation to please my spouse.
My wife exudes sexiness toward the world and then comes home to throw on her sweatpants after a long day on her feet and then expects me to desire her at all times, but only act on it when she's in the mood. (Not my words)  ;D Is it unfair to ask for a little extra effort towards ensuring that my intimate needs/desires are met in the same way we might strive to ensure that your emotional needs/desires are met? Isn't this thing built on compromise? Or is this street now closed because I am a porn addict?
Men are visual creatures, our brains have different hormones and, even though all of us might not have the same idea of beauty, we all appreciate a person who is healthy. Our lizard brains are constantly making these assessments, it is the reason we can't help but glance at the person holding his/her head high, smiling happily, who doesn't harbor some addiction of their own. We associate beauty with health and we all desire to procreate with another healthy human being. It is what made humans so successful as a species. I feel that is in our biology and it cannot be changed, however, it can be controlled. Our willpower is what separates us from the animals. If we are to seek any form of enlightenment we must have control over our demons. Porn is only one demon among a sea of demons. Both partners must address and battle their own.
I feel issues such as obesity/laziness, other eating disorders, gambling, attention-seeking, body dismorphia, hoarding,  habitual consumerism, etc. can and probably do stem from an addiction of a different sort. In a sense these people are getting that shot of dopamine to their brains for satisfying some other biological necessity to excess. These eventually become pathways for self-medication in the same way porn was for me. How can we engage in these behaviors without also detracting from our relationship with our SO? Won't those people also put their SO through the ringer in order to keep pressing that dopamine button?
Why is it that I am supposed to remain silent while I watch a person struggling with those issues but my addiction to porn is the singular thing driving the wedge in our relationship? Shouldn't physical and mental health be something that every capable human strives for? Being free of the bonds that hold us back in life is the goal here right?

P.S. Yes Gracie, she has always left the door open, or will come in when I am using the bathroom. Something I have mentioned bothers me on dozens of occasions, but it doesn't seem to sink in. 

 

[Gracie]

I guess my point was that it seems like she has been like this for some time.  You made no mention of these things in your journal.  Was she always like this?  Or is this new?  Yes marriage is a compromise, but maybe there needs to be a discussion with her about the marriage and each of your expectations.  It seems that communication is key in working this out. 

 

[luvlost]

Hello Cheifmitch88,
I guess I am wondering if she was always like this also...For me, I am the partner of a porn addict. He has not reached out for help. We have had no contact for 4 months. I cannot even imagine being with him right now in a sexual way. I need time to heal also.  However, I think it must take time for her to find her way back sexually. Perhaps she is not feeling desirable and it will come in time.  Porn causes a lot of hurtful feelings on both sides.

I am new here and tried to find your journal as well as others, it would help with better insight....I dont know where to find them

 

[Gracie]

luvlost, click on his name and then on the left you will see show posts you will see what he has posted and then you can tell which one is his journal.  That is the same with everyone. 

 

[luvlost]

thank you Gracie

 

[chiefmitch88]

First off, I'd just like to thank you all for your input and non-judgmental responses. You are a great source of support.

Secondly, @ Luvlost:  That is great insight. Perhaps with a renewed libido on my part and time to heal on her part will see changes in her level of effort. I have seen an increase in her initiative when it comes to her taking care of me just in the past couple of weeks. Patience is a virtue I have very little of and it would do me good to remember that. I'm just too used to immediate gratification i suppose.

To all:
I would say that she has changed in some ways and remained the same in others. She has always been a little prone to erratic behavior. I feel like she kept so much information from me that now, 4 years into our marriage I am just starting to understand her. Granted, we did have a short courting period (10 months) but she is very good about putting on a mask to hide her inner turmoil. She deals with problems by quitting and forgetting. Then seeks something to make her feel good again. I don't think it is as simple as determining if she displayed these habits before. When I committed myself to her I had very little clue about the depth of the pool I would be swimming in.
Mind you, I was not suggesting that she struggles with all of the addictions on that list I mentioned earlier. But I do feel she self-soothes by using 2 or 3 of them. Namely her hoarding, compulsive buying along with some need for male approval. My wife and I both bring baggage to the table. I am a porn addict and she comes from a very difficult upbringing. Her father was never in the picture. She was beaten by the people who were supposed to be her guardians. She was molested as a pre-teen by two members of her extended family and never informed anyone about it other than me and our marriage counselor. I feel this gave her a skewed view of what love is and what she valued herself for. I also think that her image of how a man is supposed to act and show affection was warped. (Maybe that's why she fell for me in the first place?)
I admire her strength and her drive to succeed, she is warm and loving when she feels loved. However, when she perceives a threat to that comfortable state she is in she immediately retreats emotionally and refuses to communicate constructively. When I press further and try to talk about issues that might cause discomfort  (say a discussion involving hypothetical connections between her current actions and her past life experiences) she will become angry and hurtful.  She simply says that I should give up on her, then she proceeds to drive me away by saying things she knows will cut me. The more I discuss it the more I feel like my fall back into porn was partially connected to all the difficulties I had in opening lines of communication with her. I did give up, and I turned to porn.
These issues and my jealousy along with my porn addiction drove her into the arms of a man that was/is? also married with two kids. She was seeking a refuge where she felt safe and cared for and I understand that. Maybe it was an attempt at self sabotage as well. I was neglecting her needs by indulging my desires.

So, when I wish for sexiness I wish for that woman who has removed her mask, gotten her habits under control and is seeking enlightenment through true partnership.

 

[sender]

So, when I wish for sexiness I wish for that woman who has removed her mask, gotten her habits under control and is seeking enlightenment through true partnership.

It's not about the sex, it's about the relationship.  I used to have thoughts not unlike yours.  Then I gave up porn, fantasy and masturbation.  In fact, I pretty much gave up orgasm altogether.  I committed to being open and present during lovemaking.  Now, when we have sex, she removes her mask and the goddess comes out to play; it's so lovely to see, I just can't contain all the beauty - it just washes over me like a tsunami - hard to describe.  I don't need the sexy nighties and fantasy and all that.  She can be in her nasty old sweats for all I care.  It's her eyes, her skin, her lips, the connection between us.  Her nasty old sweats don't get in the way of any of that; especially not after they come off

You're going about it backwards.  Don't concern yourself with her enlightenment; focus on your own.  Change yourself.  Change how you approach her.  Give up the porn; just say no to porn now and forever.  Become generous, giving, gentle, understanding and accepting.  Be those things through to your core.  Expect nothing in return.  Do this, and you will meet her goddess, but more importantly, you will be worthy of the attention you get from her.

 

[Gracie]

Sender, this is so true!  I can say that now that my husband is 100% focused on me and not the porn, it is amazing.  We both enjoy the way our relationship is enhanced by our commitment to each other.