Should video games with sexual content be avoided at all costs during a reboot?

[lukeman3000]

Perhaps one of the most anticipated games of all time is coming out next month - Cyberpunk 2077. I have been looking forward to this game for a long time.

Recently, however, I became aware of porn addiction and how porn can fuck up our reward centers to negatively affect dopamine sensitivity and etc. And seeing as how I've felt relatively shitty for the past 2-3 years without much of a desire to do anything (no desire for women, sex (outside of masturbation), furthering my career, socialization, the outdoors, exercise, etc), I figured it might be a good idea to try cutting PMO out of my life for a couple/few months to see what might change. Well, I want to cut porn out entirely, but I'm also abstaining from masturbation and orgasm at least for 90 days during this initial reboot stage.

That brings me back to my question. I know that I need to avoid any kind of artificial stimulation, and I have no doubt that CP2077 will be full of content like this. Hell, during the character creation screen you can see your character fully nude. There are probably also strip clubs and I'm pretty sure you can have sex with other characters, though I'm not sure how explicit these particular scenes are.

This has me feeling kind of sick to my stomach. On one hand, I don't think it's a big deal, and I don't think I'm inclined to masturbate to a video game. On the other hand, it's a representation (and probably a pretty damn good one), and it could tempt me to look elsewhere (porn).

So, how dangerous is it to play such games for rebooters? Is it a really, really bad idea? Or if you can play games without feeling the need to use PMO, is it ok? Even if you don't use PMO after playing such a game, could simply being exposed to such images have negative effects on the brain/reward circuitry?

And finally, if the answer is to abstain from playing such games, will I be able to return to them at some point in the future? It's not like this game is just sex 24/7; I'm interested in the game because of the combat, the story, experiencing the futuristic world, etc. I couldn't care less about the sex and the sexual aspects in the game, but they're there.

 

[Fappy]

If you actively seek out sexual experiences within the game and use them for sexual stimulation, then yes. That can fuck up your reboot.

 

[doneatlast]

I just responded to your other thread not realizing you had another one going with this topic, so I might be a bit repetitive.

Some people think video games are just dopamine slot machines and over all bad for brain health.  I don't agree, but some games clearly are designed this way.  Early games were designed for arcades and were intended to eat quarters, but they eventually evolved to being their own little art medium.  They've returned to quarter munching as the attention economy has become more and more competitive and those reward systems are put in place along with so many other things. 

Regarding the sexual stuff, I agree with Fappy.  Once you get into the thick of a reboot, you'll be surprised how little it will take to trigger you to want to relapse.  This is doubly true if CG porn was ever a thing for you (most porn addicts have some sort of fetish/escalation that is their worst enemy during a reboot).

Chances are good that you'll have to give up video games for a while, and chances are also good that you'll be able to return eventually.  Personally, I have developed a sense of "brain fog" that was strongest with porn use, but I feel kick in every so often with internet surfing, games, or whatever now that I'm away from porn.  Other people experience it more as a sort of mania.  If you're mindful of your habits you can keep it from becoming either a relapse, or just dovetailing into a whole new addiction post-porn.

 

[Phineas 808]

I also agree with Fappy, that if your inent is to 'act out' through the sexual material of the video game, then yes, it will derail your reboot efforts. Obviously it will utilize the same 'reward centers' hijacked in one's addiction.

That said, I don't think they should be avoided all together, because avoidance can actually strengthen its allurement, and cause you to get the video game just so you can act out on those scenes.

Ideally, you should be able to play your video game, and then when those scenes come up, go get your snacks or look away- not because they'll reach out and control you, but because you're in control and want to reboot.

Does that make sense?

 

[lukeman3000]

I also agree with Fappy, that if your inent is to 'act out' through the sexual material of the video game, then yes, it will derail your reboot efforts. Obviously it will utilize the same 'reward centers' hijacked in one's addiction.

That said, I don't think they should be avoided all together, because avoidance can actually strengthen its allurement, and cause you to get the video game just so you can act out on those scenes.

Ideally, you should be able to play your video game, and then when those scenes come up, go get your snacks or look away- not because they'll reach out and control you, but because you're in control and want to reboot.

Does that make sense?

It makes sense, and this is more or less the same approach I've taken with other media like the internet. While I don't surf porn sites anymore (duh), I still enjoy surfing reddit. I do enabled the nsfw filter but it's still possible to come across sexualized content (like sexy cosplayers). In that instance I stop looking and try to change my focus. In a way it seems a bit like a mild version of extinction training. Perhaps I can utilize this method with video games so that I can still enjoy them otherwise (even ones with highly sexualized content).

So if you're not familiar with Cyberpunk 2077 or games like it, the majority of the game revolves around action, puzzle solving, storytelling -- not sex. However, as part of the overall narrative you are allowed to interact with characters, develop relationships with them, and even have sex with them. The same was true for Mass Effect, for example. Sex was most definitely a small aspect of that game but it could happen. Though in Mass Effect I don't think you ever saw anyone naked, in Cyberpunk I think that will definitely be the case.

I have never had a CG fetish. I've seen adverts involving CG characters and I've always thought it was kind of strange. However that's usually because such adverts showcase strange characters like Marge from the Simpsons or someone else that's not very much based on a real-life person. Cyberpunk 2077, aside from the cybernetic aspect, is very much going for photorealistic representation. I would likely never masturbate to a scene from the game; I just don't see that happening. But what I'm concerned about is that it *could* cause me to go look elsewhere (revisit porn). That's what I want to avoid.

At the end of the day I know it's a decision I can only make for myself. The thought of needing to look away during certain scenes of a video game is something I balk at; not because I think it's a bad idea but because I can't believe such a thing might be necessary.

Maybe a sort of compromise would be indicated. Perhaps at least during these first 90 days of my reboot I can try playing the game but look away during these scenes, or skip them. After 90 days, depending upon how I'm feeling, perhaps it will not be necessary to censor myself in this way going forward. I guess that only time and experimentation will tell.

 

[Phineas 808]

In that instance I stop looking and try to change my focus. In a way it seems a bit like a mild version of extinction training. Perhaps I can utilize this method with video games so that I can still enjoy them otherwise (even ones with highly sexualized content).

I like that, exactly! ERP (Exposure Response Prevention, or Exposure Ritual Prevention). You hit the nail on the head! If this is part of what may come up with this (or Reddit, etc) video game, and you feel urges arise, just stop and check your pulse. Become aware with your physiological reaction. Then, just take 5 or more deep breaths (in through the nostrils, out through the mouth), and then check your pulse again. Notice the 'level of urge' at that point, has it gone down? In this way you can see how urges come and go, even intense ones, and you'll survive without necessarily acting on them.

This is a better approach than directly trying to fight the urges, which we both know where that usually goes.

So if you're not familiar with Cyberpunk 2077 or games like it, the majority of the game revolves around action, puzzle solving, storytelling -- not sex. However, as part of the overall narrative you are allowed to interact with characters, develop relationships with them, and even have sex with them. The same was true for Mass Effect, for example. Sex was most definitely a small aspect of that game but it could happen. Though in Mass Effect I don't think you ever saw anyone naked, in Cyberpunk I think that will definitely be the case.

I have never had a CG fetish. I've seen adverts involving CG characters and I've always thought it was kind of strange. However that's usually because such adverts showcase strange characters like Marge from the Simpsons or someone else that's not very much based on a real-life person. Cyberpunk 2077, aside from the cybernetic aspect, is very much going for photorealistic representation. I would likely never masturbate to a scene from the game; I just don't see that happening. But what I'm concerned about is that it *could* cause me to go look elsewhere (revisit porn). That's what I want to avoid.

Not familiar with that game, but I like to play GTA V (open world mode), and there are strip clubs one can go into (and I have). And while it was suggestively provocative, it did lead, like you said, to other more intense activities.

That's the thing, is this or that thing, not necessarily being a 'fall' in and of itself, but perhaps as pressuring you to act on whatever your usual ritual is, whatever is part of you 'acting out' on your unwanted behaviors.

Like yourself, I'm not likely to masturbate to a video game, but these or other behaviors would act like a primer for the ritual itself.

To avoid the thing you're getting away from, any lead-ins should also be avoided, or understood for what they're used for by yourself.

At the end of the day I know it's a decision I can only make for myself. The thought of needing to look away during certain scenes of a video game is something I balk at; not because I think it's a bad idea but because I can't believe such a thing might be necessary.

Maybe a sort of compromise would be indicated. Perhaps at least during these first 90 days of my reboot I can try playing the game but look away during these scenes, or skip them. After 90 days, depending upon how I'm feeling, perhaps it will not be necessary to censor myself in this way going forward. I guess that only time and experimentation will tell.

Needing to look away may not be a good suggestion if it doesn't lead into any ritual or pattern of behavior anyway. And even if it did, avoidance (looking away) may not be helpful. Being aware during those moments, without looking away- but also (and this is key) without acting on or responding to it, would be better.

I don't think the 90 day period is an extra-fragile time, necessarily. The quicker that you can realize that you're in control, and not the addiction, the better.

I would say, go for it. Simply be aware of yourself during this time, breathe through any elevations of urges during any suggestive game play, breathe through, but don't respond to them.

Hope this helps, Luke.

 

[lukeman3000]

I don't think the 90 day period is an extra-fragile time, necessarily. The quicker that you can realize that you're in control, and not the addiction, the better.

I would say, go for it. Simply be aware of yourself during this time, breathe through any elevations of urges during any suggestive game play, breathe through, but don't respond to them.

Hope this helps, Luke.

It helps very much, thanks.

I guess what I'm concerned about is that automatic dopamine hit I get when I see a sexy woman, whether or not that's in porn, a cosplayer on reddit, or perhaps a 3D photorealistic representation in a video game. I'm under the impression that I want to avoid these kinds of artificial dopamine surges altogether, and at virtually any cost, especially during this reboot period. But perhaps this isn't exactly correct?

For example, a few days ago while surfing reddit I saw a picture of someone who was cosplaying Cortana from Halo. If you don't know, she's a naked 3D holographic woman (with a blue tint and "circuitry" all over her skin). The cosplayer appeared to be similarly nude, shot from the waist up, but had blurred her nipples (it did not leave much to the imagination). She was exceedingly beautiful and I was transfixed upon her body; I felt that kind of "burning" sensation in my head and an excitement growing. I saw that her web page was watermarked on the photo so I visited it to see her other cosplays. As I was clicking through I realized that I'm essentially feeding the same addiction but in a different way, so I stopped. Later that day I think I clicked back on the original photo once more (it was hard to avoid since it was on the front page even with my nsfw filter turned on), but I ultimately didn't masturbate or turn to porn or anything else so I decided to count that as a victory and not a relapse.

Anyways, the point I'm getting at is simply by viewing that picture the first time I probably got a shot of dopamine. So if I come across a scene or moment in a game where there is highly sexualized content, will it not give me that same hit of dopamine even if I am able to mostly control my thoughts and actions and not act on it any further? Or am I making this into a bigger deal that it needs to be?

 

[Phineas 808]

Understood, Luke.

Dopamine is a part of life, and can come from seeing a beautiful sunset, or tasting our favorite icecream. The thing about PMO, especially via high-speed internet, is that it unrealistically excites our dopamine receptors to the point where they 'burn out', and it takes that much more dopamine (via even harder or extreme pornography) to get the same 'high' as before.

During reboot, as long as you're not engaging in activities that bring you back into 'cyclicles of addiction'- or acting out your ritual, you'll be fine. Avoid porn, p-subs, and edging. P-subs can be looking up cosplay actresses or models, but accidentally stumbling across one doesn't count, unless we act on it.

You did act on that, looking her up, but you stopped, and it didn't lead to further activity- so that is a win.

Knowing yourself, and what leads you down a darker path, is all a part of learning how to overcome these unwanted behaviors.

 

[lukeman3000]

Understood, Luke.

Dopamine is a part of life, and can come from seeing a beautiful sunset, or tasting our favorite icecream. The thing about PMO, especially via high-speed internet, is that it unrealistically excites our dopamine receptors to the point where they 'burn out', and it takes that much more dopamine (via even harder or extreme pornography) to get the same 'high' as before.

During reboot, as long as you're not engaging in activities that bring you back into 'cyclicles of addiction'- or acting out your ritual, you'll be fine. Avoid porn, p-subs, and edging. P-subs can be looking up cosplay actresses or models, but accidentally stumbling across one doesn't count, unless we act on it.

You did act on that, looking her up, but you stopped, and it didn't lead to further activity- so that is a win.

Knowing yourself, and what leads you down a darker path, is all a part of learning how to overcome these unwanted behaviors.

Coming across women in electronic media is one thing and it's my understanding that I want to avoid artificial arousal as much as possible (anything I might see in/on a screen). I'll probably play the game and monitor my feelings (and actions or lack thereof) and if it proves to be problematic I can make changes at that point. I guess my fear is that it may be problematic without me knowing. Perhaps though cutting out actual porn (and masturbation to porn) will be enough to initiate healing and to help me develop a more healthy sense of sexuality and relationships to women, video games notwithstanding. I guess I'll just have to play it by ear; I'd hate to cut out everything from my life that I enjoy right now. I have gamed since I was a kid and more recently I've really been looking forward to Cyberpunk.

I'm also wondering about how I should conduct myself in the real world when it comes to women. For example, tonight I went to a climbing gym with my brother (I have a membership but haven't been much in literally months, so this is pretty unusual for me) and I could not help but immediately notice beautiful women all over the place; not to mention somewhat scantily clad (in athletic attire).

Going to a place like this is actual a source of shame and guilt for me. It reminds me of my own problems, and my dysfunctional relationship with women - especially seeing all the couples there together. And I find myself wanting to look at the different parts of these women and each time I catch myself I feel ashamed and avert my eyes as quickly as possible, and try to take my mind off of it.

And it's not like I'm an unattractive slob, myself. I am biased of course but I think I'm fairly attractive and relatively in shape. I've been in several relationships over the years but realizing that I have some kind of porn addiction makes me view them in a different light altogether. I have never felt all that attached to any of my girlfriends. I've always found something wrong with each of them that was hard for me to look past (sometimes incredibly superficial). And some of the relationships have just not been very healthy. After each one has ended the thought occurs to me that the only thing I really miss is the sexual contact with that person, but not really the person themselves. I feel like I've never been in love, or experienced love, and I've always thought that I just haven't met the right person.

But now I'm thinking that all of this could be explained by the way that I've fucked my brain, my sexuality, and my views toward and relationships with women over the many years that I've used porn. And I've not even used what I would consider to be deviant content; it's very vanilla stuff. I've never escalated in any way that seems very significant to me (perhaps I can see a slight escalation but I've not enjoyed viewing anything that I've ever felt was extremely socially unacceptable or deviant). But I guess it doesn't necessarily matter. At the end of the day I've been conditioning myself with porn since I was a teenager, and I'm in my early thirties now. I probably viewed quite a bit of porn before I had even my first relationship. And not only that, I grew up in a very religious/conservative household where sex was not talked about; it was just assumed that I wouldn't do it until I was married (I guess). The end result of all of this being that my sense of sexuality was apparently warped from the beginning.

 

[Phineas 808]

As far as artificial arousal through video games, I think that it's impossible for it to harm you outside of your knowledge. Wouldn't the level of dopamine have to rise to whatever has excited you before? How could you not know it?

So, I think your plan is good, play your game, and if it proves to be an issue, deal with it then. The more you approach this 'legalistically', and deprive yourself from normal activities out of a fear of 'artificial arousel', you'll only strengthen the neural pathways that were created through the addiction to begin with.

In other words, you want to avoid X, but you wish to enjoy Y. But you're afraid that Y will cause harm because of the possibility of X. So depriving yourself of Y for the sake of avoiding X, you're still focused too much on X, and that will still give too much power to it, and it will continue to have a hold on your life.

For interacting with women in public, you have to know the difference between natural attraction and its innocent glance, and flat out lusting. You have to see women as people, and not as sex-objects for your ogling pleasure. This means being merciful to your natural attraction, and learning self-control to not 'go there'. When you make a decision to respect women in the moment, you'll know what to do, or not do.

As far as future relationships, once you get these issues under control, then you can venture out there. But right now you may simply not be ready for that. And that's okay. Just heal for yourself, and then you'll be the perfect catch for someone out there.

Porn, vanilla or not, is a fantasy and as such it misrepresents how women really feel, how they really are. So that's why it can jack with how we view the opposite sex. Once these things are out of your life, your whole perspective will change, not only about women, but more importantly, about yourself.