Murgatroyd?s Journal ? The Rest of the Story

Murgatroyd

Member
discobolus said:
There is a lot to your posts, and a LOT that I disagree with, but I will offer this advice, you need to decide whether your goal is to have a better sex life with your wife or if your goal is to prove yourself right and prove her wrong, because the two are mutually exclusive. Sex is an emotional act for women and convincing her with logic and data will never work. In fact it will probably have the opposite of the desired effect.

I would highly recommend you get this book:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004W0IRQ8/ref=dbs_a_w_dp_b004w0irq8

I also suspect that if you read it you will scoff at the validity and continue to frame yourself as the victim of your wife and continue to brow beat her with logic.

Goodness, the assumptions are flying around like skin care reps at an AAD meeting.

Contrary to your suspicion, I scoff at the validity of work being passed off as "scientific" when it's not, when an author's objectivity is suspicious usually due to an obvious yet not disclosed conflict of interest, or when the work has not withstood peer review.

In the case of this great book you linked to, "The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011," for goodness sake, it's a work of humor.  I am sure I will love the writing of any author described as:

"a ... humorist and family man with a one track mind ... a "Mixed Marital Artist" combining a variety of relationship approaches from evolutionary psychology ... sociology, biology, life experience, romance novels, crappy women's magazines, far too many books, blogging, behavior modification and cheap porn."  "The author is also aware that has painted himself into a corner by writing a book on monogamy. At around 112,500 words, it is the longest chastity belt in existence. It only chafes a little."

A "mixed marital artist."  Heh.  Very punny.  I will read it out loud to my wife!  Or, if I am feeling like living dangerously, I'll ask her to read it out loud to me!  I'm looking forward to that.  Thank you for the recommendation!

@Discobolus, friend, this is not about right and wrong.  After 30 years of marriage, all of these lists are very long:

The times when I was wrong
The times when she was right
The times when I was right
The times when she was wrong

Keeping track is not the point.  As my other friend @Aussie said, it's about compromise.  The point is, you can't have the right conversation until everyone is in agreement about the details.  Denial is a terrible thing.  It's not helpful if she won't own her own feelings and desires.  Now she has.  Now we can move forward.  Ideally, together.

I don't believe I'm framing myself as a victim.  Is the chastity belt chaffing?  Yes.  Am I frustrated?  Yes.  Can things be better than they are?  Yes.  My first choice is for them to be better with her.

Murgs
 

discobolus

Active Member
Just remember Captain Kirk was knee deep in pussy, not Spock. Trust me your wife is not suddenly going to have a moment where she say ?you have presented compelling data on how the total duration of our sexual activity has gone from n to n/2 based on a combination of decreased frequency and duration. These numbers have made me very horny, now drop those pants and let me fellate you vigorously?.
 

Murgatroyd

Member
discobolus said:
Just remember Captain Kirk was knee deep in pussy, not Spock. Trust me your wife is not suddenly going to have a moment where she say ?you have presented compelling data on how the total duration of our sexual activity has gone from n to n/2 based on a combination of decreased frequency and duration. These numbers have made me very horny, now drop those pants and let me fellate you vigorously?.

My wife says, "There is truth in that...."

At least that's what I think she said, giving that I was rolling on the floor laughing from how funny your post was.

Brilliant wit, my friend.  Thank you!

Murgs
 

Murgatroyd

Member
Well.  Day 90.  Still alive.  Let the analysiys of Phase 1 begin, and the determination of what Phase 2 will be....

Thanks everyone for your support and comments.

Murgs
 

Patience

Member
Thanks @jixu!

It's kind of like, which came first, the chicken or the egg? If you ask me, then:

1. I don't think I have a problem

but

2. I may not be the right person to ask!

That's why I'm asking others. I have heard it said that "it's not an addiction if you can quit at any time." This is my first test. I intend to reboot for 90 days to prove that I can quit at any time, and therefore prove that I am not addicted. Or confirm I am addicted by failing the test.

However, I am not as na?ve as to think that this will pass the smell test with the Reboot Nation so I am asking people to tell me what I don't get. The most frequent response is: "Sometimes rebooting takes longer than 90 days. It can take many years in some cases." This strikes me as a polite way of telling me that unless I stop looking at porn, then I rebooted wrong. Then when you ask people how you know if you're cured, nobody really knows. Others say "you are never cured, it's like an alcoholic," and this is the point where I begin to wonder if the emperor actually has no clothes. So I offend some readers by saying, "I don't think I have a problem. I like porn, then I get a stiffy and have sex with my wife resulting in satisfying orgasms all around."

This is the point at which I then become synonymous with an arrogant prick to some, and told "You're obviously not addicted" by others.

So far, the most we can come up with is, I definitely have a porn habit, but then it gets divided about whether or not I am actually addicted. I have another thread going in the "Porn Addiction" forum entitled "Am I In Denial?" which has quite a lively discussion going. In fact, the only reason I wrote this Journal (way too long, thanks for reading) was because some other Reboot Nationalists asked me for more background detail. I hope to either confirm or rule out that I have an addiction problem. Unfortunately mentioning my affair drags both myself and my wife through the mud for different reasons.

As you're noticing, there is not agreement on how porn addiction is defined. In another post I wrote this:

To be clear, I am not in denial about having a porn habit. Where the train comes off the rails for me is when I consider hallmarks of porn addiction I don't fit the profile:
  • My habit is modest
  • I can control it
  • I don't let it run my life
  • I don't have withdrawal symptoms when I abstain
  • My cock works
  • I have a great time in bed with my wife multiple times a week
My conclusion: It's possible I am lost or blind or both. I am open to being shown what I cannot see already.

Hope that helps, @jixu.

Murgs
New, here. This is Murgatroyd's wife, Patience. I do not know if I am *allowed* to add to the story or not, but feel there are some key things missing from the journal.

*Yes, we have sex. Nearly every day. However, he only has an orgasm maybe a couple of times per week. We stop when it becomes painful for me, typically after 15-20 minutes. Sometimes I will attempt to stroke him off....until my arm or back gets tired. When he doesn't come, we try again the next day, and the day after, until he finally has an O. Up to the point when he came clean about his affair(s)/prostitutes/craigslist hookups/intimate emails, he always blamed his lack of orgasm on ME, and said I didn't have enough stamina. He said it didn't count as sex unless he had an O. He has since reversed that charge, allowing that it might be him. Maybe.

*I became less sexually interesting, according to him, by gaining weight and not wanting to do certain sexual acts. One is physically impossible for me, the other I don't like. I can do the one I don't like. I have lost the majority of weight. I have tried to give him what he claims he wants.

*He lied about his porn use, and everything else, and continues to. After his 90 day reboot was up, he went straight back to it, and denied using it when I asked him directly. Not a squishy question, but one with a Yes/No answer. He lied about it 3 times, used it God only knows how many times. Something had been off since the reboot, and a few early mornings ago I had a nightmare. I went to find him in his barn - which he claims to be cleaning up - peeked through the window to see if he was there, and saw him moaning and masturbating. The flashback to his affair(s) was horrible. All the lying, the double life, came back with a visceral physical reaction which took me over an hour to get under control....so I asked him at breakfast later that morning if he had masturbated. Nope.

*When I confronted him about his lying, he admitted he was back at porn. I asked him to move out, not so much because of the porn, but because of the lying. He is still here, but I just can't allow intimate touch. I. just. cannot. I am still licking my wounds.

*He signed up for counseling prior to my discovery of his lying. He will be attending a Men's group for sex addiction (I think), plus a regular therapy session, starting next week. This last ditch effort is the only thing keeping me in our marriage. I am tired of feeling scrutinized, compared, abused, lied to. He had always held up the fact he hadn't lost a job or marriage to porn as proof he was not an addict.

*For those who do so, please pray for our marriage. I have loved this man with my whole heart for over 30 years.

What am I supposed to do with this?

Patience
 

Gracie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
I feel that yes this is worth a discussion. Many men post to the forums here about their wives. Whether or not to tell them or discuss the addiction with them, how their wife is not interested in sex, how their wife has changed physically, their wife has a problem with them watching porn etc. Many of us have participated in things similar to or exactly the same as described by Patience. We are experiencing the man’s addiction. Many men here do not understand this. But we do feel it. Men often do not seek to end their addiction until they experience PIED. Please do this healing for your relationship, not for a physical response. And though I get bashed when I say this, talk with your wife so you heal together. It works!
 

Murgatroyd

Member
Hey Gracie. Thanks. Your comments are always welcome and add breadth to any conversation here.

I came to the Reboot Nation to figure out whether or not I really did have a problem, since, if I did, I lived 62 years without being aware of it. Reboot Nation did not yield the answer to the question, but I did learn a lot more than I knew before I came here, which I think is excellent.

The fundamental challenge is to define a sex or porn addiction. Then, if successful (The American Psychiatric Association has not been successful as you know), to diagnose it. So to me that looks like a minefield. It's tempting to look at a guy (me) who freely admits to watching porn for 1 hour a day, and uses it for orgasms as much as a couple times a week, and tell everyone "this guy has a problem." I found comments like that of limited help.

Before the episode my wife describes above, I had started working face-to-face with a couple different trained professionals in my ongoing quest for answers that started last December. We are making great headway. One asked me last Monday what I would do if my penis fell off. I told him I would have no further reason to live. The backstory: People have been asking me in front of my wife what I would do if I could not have sex, for 30 years. Patience has heard me answer, and she's always thought my answer was very sad. Until last week, I guess people always thought I was joking. But I am not joking and I feel perfectly comfortable with my answer. Last week, the facilitator of my men's group was the first person to ever say, "That means you define yourself by sex."

Kind of a "Captain Obvious" moment. Was I on candid camera? Was this a trick question? Of course I define myself by sex. And your point is?

He explained in about 8 seconds how my doing this was really hard on my wife, and how I could rid myself of the challenges caused by it by defining myself by some other thing. I have a lot of other things to choose from. Too many things, if you ask my wife.

Some people reading this may be thinking to themselves, "Well duh," but to me this is the first time anybody ever put it like this. Note the facilitator never used the word "addiction."

(Starting a conversation with me by labeling me as "sick" is not the best approach for a positive outcome).

The next day, I told this to my private therapist (different guy, different setting). He explained how, even though the DSM (written by the APA above) does not specify a condition called "sexual addiction," if sex controls me, there are other definitions of "addiction" that would define sex as an addiction in this case. So I figure, if the shoe fits, I should wear it. Thanks, Doc.

So, in the space of a couple days, two experienced trained professional psychologists are now telling me I am addicted to sex, and that it is not usual. Up until now I did not think I was unusual. If you read all my posts, you can see this is what I have been looking for since I first posted on the Reboot Nation. I have been living with this new information since last Monday and trying to figure out what to do with it.

It is a game changer. I appreciate my wife even more now that I understand better what she has been going through as a result of me, for 30 years. I appreciate her patience.

I'm confident that with this new info, I can take action to improve my marriage, give my wife some relief, and understand more about myself.

Murgs
 
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