To address the name I've chosen.

[toofat]

Several years ago, things started to get really scarce as far as bedroom activities were concerned and I stopped accepting, "I'm too stressed/tired" as an excuse. Eventually, I guess I badgered him enough with "why, why, why?" that he broke down and finally told me that he didn't find me sexually attractive any more.

I've always been overweight (thanks PCOS, Hypothyroidism and sleep apnea!), so I didn't really get this. It didn't make sense to me as a reasonable reason why he didn't want to have sex with me more than once a week (if I was lucky) WITHOUT me practically begging or guilt tripping him to. My excess weight wasn't anything new, and I wasn't not-skinny for lack of trying everything under the sun.

Now, after years of this killing me a little inside everyday, I've finally learned about porn addiction. With learning about this subject and reading some stories, I see that this type of response from men with PIED is actually a very typical. It seems to be the most common excuse that they come up with to explain their problems.

I chose this name not because I truly believe I am too fat, but because it was such a constant knife through my heart for so long. It was the thing that finally broke me, but it was also the thing that finally gave me the strength to say, I'm not going to take it any more. I finally decided that I'm not going to be married to a man that doesn't want me, or desire me in every sense. Because I deserve more than that.

This name is my reminder of how ridiculous it is. It's a reminder of how stupid I was to let his words drive me to depression and desperate means. It's a reminder to myself that in the end, if he makes it past his reboot, and things get better, everything still falls on those words to me. If, in the end, he still doesn't find me sexually attractive "because I'm too fat", then I'm too fat to be his wife. And that's OK, because I don't want to be anybody's wife who thinks that I'm too fat.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

This name is my reminder of how ridiculous it is. It's a reminder of how stupid I was to let his words drive me to depression and desperate means. It's a reminder to myself that in the end, if he makes it past his reboot, and things get better, everything still falls on those words to me.

I get where you're going, but I don't see how that helps you or him. Give an addict an excuse to use free of guilt and responsibility and they will take it - thinking less of yourself is like telling them it is okay and you'll pick up the responsibility tab. Don't think I'm picking on you - I did this my own self.

You want to paste a moniker to your forehead (figuratively) that reminds you to think of yourself as stupid? For Why again? Because that past really hurts and you need to keep that scab picked?

Here's my list of Self Care for this Week -

Bubble bath
White cotton gloves to address very dry hands
Ironed pillow cases - because I like this a lot, don't laugh
Walk in the woods Thanksgiving morning with my dog and sketchbook
Pick out good audio book for trip
Spend Black Friday playing Spades or Hearts with the kids - NO SHOPPING, Yes Carmel Apples

 

[toofat]

I know this is off the original topic, but I'm going to focus on it rather than everything else you've replied with first.

I like the idea of self care, and I wouldn't pick on you for liking your pillow cases ironed. Do I get it? No. Does it affect me? No. I try to think of those questions or ones similar to them when I start to consider (for lack of better words) judging another person. I used to be a very mean and ugly spirited person. I had my reasons, sure, but I've also learned that behavior like that will get me no where fast-and sometimes even put me in situations I'd rather not be in.

Anyways, like I said, I like your idea of self care. However, I'm more curious as to the reasoning behind the things you've chosen to add to your list. When I originally read it, the only thing that popped out to me was the gloves and bubble bath. Those things stood out because to me they meant making a purchase, and I have a problem with spending money when I'm depressed.* I'm sure when you were writing this list of things out, you weren't thinking to yourself, "what can I buy in order to pamper myself". BUT You must have been thinking something, and that's what I'm most curious about. It seems like a useful thing for yourself, and I'm looking to understand the underlying reasons why so that I may figure out something that would address the same things for myself-without triggering the "go shop" switch.


Now, on to the real topic!

I get where you're going, but I don't see how that helps you or him. Give an addict an excuse to use free of guilt and responsibility and they will take it - thinking less of yourself is like telling them it is okay and you'll pick up the responsibility tab. Don't think I'm picking on you - I did this my own self.

My husband doesn't know about my user name on this account. I would prefer to keep it that way. This isn't meant to help him. It's meant to help me. I can see how it would be hard for you to understand all of this for me. You are not me, and no matter how many post I make, and how detailed I make them, I don't think I would ever be able to explain what goes on inside my head in such a way that allow for anyone to really get me. And that's OK. Also, with the use of text rather than face to face interaction or even intonations of my voice, it's hard to really hear any feelings that may also be associated with my words. Even though, as I'm typing this, the words play in my head as matter-of-factly and empathetic, I can easily see how they can be read this a tone of combatant or some other way. (For shits and gigs, what is the tone you originally read this as?) 

The overall/underlying reason I joined these forums is to: 1, Have an outlet for things that are on my mine or for how I feel. I want to feel heard. But I don't want to feel judged by those around me. 2, To see other people's stories and struggles. To know that I'm not the only one. Not feel like I'm in this alone.

You want to paste a moniker to your forehead (figuratively) that reminds you to think of yourself as stupid? For Why again? Because that past really hurts and you need to keep that scab picked?

This is NOT by any means a reminder to think of myself as stupid, which is what I think you are understanding it as. Rather, it's a reminder of the fact that I was stupid enough at the time to think that it was OK for so long. It's also a reminder of the most painful thing; so that no matter that happens or how things go, I can't just let it be slid under the rug.

I know that my husband and I have to take everything step by step. Handle one thing at a time. Right now, it's about figuring out triggers and reducing them. We are also working on me trusting him enough to be home alone with the fear that he's going to relapse. Right now, those things are more important than addressing my own hurt feelings. They are acknowledged, and a major (if not THE) reason why he's even trying a reboot. But those hurt feelings over him making me feel like I was too fat, aren't our primary concern right now.

Those feeling though... Even though they aren't our (therefore my) primary concern right now, I don't want to forget that closure on this subject is important to me. This is probably going to be the Pi?ce de r?sistance. The great decider. The last step for us to take. And I don't want to forget it. 

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

I'm glad you found this forum, Toofat. I hope your goals are met and look forward to seeing your participation.

As far as shopping - if a self care list is a trigger for a shopping spree I'm not sure how to address that other than point out that substitutes are available. Clean cotton socks (worn for 20 min) can be mittens to lock in moisturizers. Bubble bath can be made at home with 1/2 cup liquid soap, a few tablespoons of honey, some scented oils or vanilla from the kitchen and one egg white as a bubble stabilizer.

Self care list reasoning - Instead of playing cards we painted mugs for Christmas gifts on Black Friday. The self care list is just a list of actions to expand my capacity to love by sharing with others, engaging in meditation (sketching/painting does this for me) and reinforcing the fact I am worthy of care. (Can't love anyone until I love myself.) I endured 8 years of a sexless, neglectful marriage due to porn and pied. I became very depressed and felt worthless. I stopped bathing regularly. For me, taking care in bathing is important.

Tone - If you perceive I crossed a boundary for you or posted a trigger for a shopping issue, please feel free to use the ignore user function. It is found under the profile function there is a buddies/ignore list. You may also report any post to the moderator if you feel the poster has gone over the edge.

Hope this helps.
SORP

 

[toofat]

The self care list is just a list of actions to expand my capacity to love by sharing with others, engaging in meditation (sketching/painting does this for me) and reinforcing the fact I am worthy of care. (Can't love anyone until I love myself.) I endured 8 years of a sexless, neglectful marriage due to porn and pied. I became very depressed and felt worthless. I stopped bathing regularly. For me, taking care in bathing is important.

I think I understand the idea behind this a little better. While I can't really associate with loving/sharing with others (it would probably take a trained psychologist to break it down to me-I'm a little... cold?), your words about the fact that you are worthy of care really struck a... cord? with me. Forgive me for being at a loss for proper words. It's so very late at night right now. So much so it's actually not that early in the morning.

Anyways, those words really spoke to me. Being cared for is a basic human need (See Maslow), and it's something I haven't often thought about in recent years. I feel like I have a strong tendency toward caring for others (needs) before caring for myself (own needs). In fact, one of the first big things I was tasked with by my psychologist (I too became very depressed, so much so that I began harming myself-still not entirely sure what I thought I was getting out of it)... the first thing I was tasked with was working on saying no to people. No, I can't tutor you, I have to worry about my own grades. No, I can't give you a ride, the cost of gas is not something I'm want to expend for this purpose. No, I can't watch your kids for you because they cause me emotional distress. The point was to at very lease say not in my own mind.

This is why those words most stood out to me. It makes me wonder if the going out and spending money thing may have been my way to providing care for myself. Just drastically because I would go through such long periods in which I didn't at all. It would probably behoove me to considering looking into doing something every day or week to ensure I took provided myself with care in small ways so as to not feel the urgency to do so in very large ways.

Tone - If you perceive I crossed a boundary for you or posted a trigger for a shopping issue, please feel free to use the ignore user function. It is found under the profile function there is a buddies/ignore list. You may also report any post to the moderator if you feel the poster has gone over the edge.

So... I think you may have misunderstood my request about tone. I was wondering how you perceived the tone of the post. As you were reading, did you perceive me as rude, imploring, defensive, empathetic, etc. I ask this because, even when talking with people face to face, I'm often taken in a way much different that is intended. It's kind of a problem...

For example, my first semester back in college after 6 years of hiatus I took a chemistry class with a lab. The lab bench I sat at only have two other people and an empty seat. Two weeks after the class started, this woman showed up and sat with us. It quickly became a problem when we were unable to move along at a productive pace because we were having to stop and explain things to the new comer. The next time we had lab, rather than making an issue, one of the other students and I simply moved to a different work bench. The third person didn't want to be left alone, so he moved too. This caused the person we were trying not to work with in the first place to also join us. The woman who originally moved along with me had shown clear signs of agitation at her presence. At the end of the lab when I was collecting my things, the new comer walked up to me and asked me if we had a problem with her. I told her, "I can't speak for anyone else so you will have to ask them. As for me, the only problem I have is that you didn't show up the first two weeks, and didn't bother to read anything during that time. Because of that you slow my progress when I have to explain things to you. I don't like being held up."

She didn't take it very well at all and talked to the instructor about it. Because I have experience with people hearing "between the lines" of what I say, I made a point to preemptively inform the instructor as well. When I said what I said, I said it because it was the answer to her question. I generally say what I mean and mean what I say, and therefore I don't have a tendency to "sugar coat" things or soften the impact of my words. It's a skill I'm still learning I guess. It's been about a year, and this woman and I have had several science classes together sense. Once she got to know me and understand my personality a little better we actually became pretty good friends.

It's things like this that make me so very curious about what my tone is like. It's one of the things I've been trying to better understand and improve. I've learned that even though you can use all of the right words to accurately describe or send the message you are trying to put out, what really matters is nonverbal cues (like body language, facial expressions, and-of coarse-tone).

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Side note: I really love psychology and interpersonal communications. One would think I would have the problems I currently have in my marriage with these two things being such strong areas of interest for me, but it's quite likely that my interest in these areas grew to be so strong from the problems I'm currently facing.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Hi 2Fab, Sorry I haven't responded, I really wanted to think about your last post.

I'm glad the idea of healthy self care appeals to you. I don't know what will work for you, but you seem like the kind of smart cookie that can figure that out. I made myself some radishes with butter and salt - that may sound really weird, but the peppery little radishes with a smidgen of butter and salt are delicious. I didn't eat a pound of them, but as a treat it was special for me. I hope you find something just as special for yourself.

I understood what you were asking about tone. I just don't think I want to judge your "tone". "Tone" is a social activity. My judgment of someone's tone will have all my past experiences and judgments and interactions with others as a basis - in other words, a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with here and now and you. So why do you want my opinion again? Do I really have an honest opinion if I'm relying on a past that may be mis-remembered? Also, I once wrote a fondly remembered email (some say legendary), a complaint to our IT group that began "Unfortunately, everyone has to live." And you are asking ME about tone - Ha! That is rich. (Also, thank goodness the IT group accepted me as the warm and funny person I am.)

I can relate to a misalignment of intent and perception of others until I figured out it wasn't so much a misalignment as it was my search for FINDING OUT WHAT WAS WRONG WITH ME. It's like having a headache and after looking up symptoms on WebMd, thinking one has Dengue fever when you just need some water because you're dehydrated (which can also bring on a nasty headache).

Oddly enough, I just read an article about the Silver Linings Playbook - the belief that a "negative" trait is a positive in some contexts has heightened impact on performance of the positive trait. http://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2014/12/01/nyu-researchers-find-silver-lining-playbook-for-performance-.html I think we already know this from "The Little Engine That Could" but that is just children's lit and not science.

Anyway, all this leads back to what you think about you being a heck of a lot more important than what I think.