Wow, Do I feel stupid

[Objectified1]

Rewind back in time to 2013. My husband was having health problems for many reasons. Most of the reasons were due to his lungs. In 2013/14, he had 5 lung collapses and then, finally, surgery to staple his lung to his chest. As a result he was missing work (6 months in a 12 month period) and really feeling terrible physically. This put a strain on us as a couple as well as our finances. He says the stress of his health issues and our financial stresses were causing him to not even want to get up in the morning. He also says, he doesnt know why he was watching porn. But he thinks after reading a few articles that for him, it was a stress release. He watched porn and fantasized because it made him finish faster and he was just after the orgasm. He tells me it wasnt about the porn or anything. That was just a aid to quicken things.

One of the things that I feel the worst about, on this reboot journey, looking back,  is how much I missed. How did I not think more of the things I saw??!!! I get this twinge inside me, my stomach turning, butterflies - but painful ones. Whenever I think of it. The increased time in the bathroom,sometimes up to an hour in the morning. The college girl videos on his recommended channels on his you tube, his deleted internet history on his phone, his constant sleeping on the couch, his lack of initiating sex, his lack of attention in general, his ED. The list goes on.
When I found the recommended channels on his you tube he denied it, said that he didn't know why it was all college girl videos it was recommending. I BELIEVED HIM!!! Now that I know, now that he has admitted it...I want to go back. I want to go back in time and do things different. I believed him because I trusted him. I feel so taken and stupid for trusting him so much. Its a gut wrenching feeling.
Then the bathroom...well, to this day he wont admit that he did stuff in the bathroom anytime other then the am or when he was sleeping on the couch. His story is it was always in the morning...always before he went to work. He tells me that once in a while he did it when he slept on the couch but not often. He says that he was sleeping on the couch because he could breath better when sleeping there not completely flat like in our bed. He also says that he did it once in a while when in the shower after work but rarely. BUT he spent SO much time in the bathroom. His time is literally 1/3 of the time or less now when in the bathroom. He tells me it was facebook and games that he was doing in there after work, not porn or masturbating. I still don't believe him.
Then the ED...This was the big kicker....He starts having problems here and there with keeping his erection. We weren't being very active in the bedroom because I was still nursing my little guy and having issues with dryness. I stopped nursing my little guy when he was 9 months old and it got a bit better so we became more active...I remember vaguely thinking, he hasn't been asking for it much and then, meh, on to other things. The ED seemed to be just here and there, probably because we weren't doing it enough to notice.
I was trying to become pregnant with our fourth through all this as well (oh my)...So silly. Had no idea. December 2014, I become pregnant for our 4th little guy. After the first 3 months, my Libido went through the roof. I wanted to have sex everyday. Wow, didnt things show up then! More and more he was having issues, cant keep an erection, half the time cant get one. I'm getting concerned, he's a little over weight, 36, but its possible...maybe its his heart! I start researching things it could be, at the same time praying, God help me see whats wrong!? (how angry I feel now that I was CONCERNED for HIM!, but it's natural to be concerned for my husband, and I shouldn't suspect he is stabbing me in the back!).
Porn popped up here and there in my searches and then one day my friend, who I know well but now lives far away from me, started telling me about how her husband had been addicted to porn. I was not telling her about hubby's ED. It was totally unrelated. I remember thinking. Thank God my husband wouldn't do that to me! Wow, what a shame etc...How silly! What a fool I was!!
I don't know why, maybe all these little clues were finally starting to add together subconsciously, but I started to wonder about porn. So I started to ask him and tell him how porn can cause ED. Nope he told me, I'm not watching that stuff. Not at all. We don't have to worry about that. 
We start fighting in the bedroom. We would be having foreplay and he just wasn't touching me right! It did nothing for me .It was like he didn't know me anymore. I would say, what are you doing? At the time I didn't realize it but now I do. His feeling and love behind his touch was missing and I could feel it even though I didn't realize it.
  Now sometime over the winter, maybe March or close to it, he admits that he has watched porn here and there... His disclosure was so staggered and full of lies I cant remember the first time he told me anything or what it was.
  April 2015 his lung collapses again and this time the doctor advised for surgery. We agree and he goes. Hes in the hospital for a week. When he gets out, he wasn't in great shape of course, but we were able to have gentle sex with me doing all the work. Guess what, his penis was working pretty good, not 100% but I would say 75%- 80% of the time it was doing great. For a week.
Then it went back down hill. I'm trying to figure out and cant for the life of me, WHY.? Was it the drugs?? Maybe his lung is helping it? Maybe it was lack of oxygen??? (oh the things I wish I knew then!).
Sometime after this he began telling me things here and there. Lie after lie after lie, mixed with bits of truth. Once he went to the hospital, HE now tells me, that he was starting to realize, maybe it IS the porn. He tells me he lied about it because he didn't think he has a problem or was addicted. He would tell him self he should stop and then just say, one more time. He thought addiction was guys masturbating for hours a day and craving it and etc. He didn't realize his urge to have an orgasm in the am, WAS addiction talking.

His porn PMO here and there, then increased to once a week, which increased lie by lie to the truth I know today as 4-5 times a week in the mornings.
While I laid in bed, fat and pregnant, waiting for him. He was in the bathroom, masturbating to porn AND the worst part for me, fantasies about all 4 of my sisters!!!!

When he told me that, which again was a staggered disclosure, at first, I thought, What!??? One of my sisters isn't even pretty!!? And shes the one he fantasized about the most he said. First he said it was about my oldest sister, then it was about her and the other two and no way was it about the 23 year old one (she lives close to me the others live across the country). He admitted to the 4th, 23 year old one ( I am 34) months later. To add to it, she stayed at my house and helped me when his lung collapsed the last time (April). My mind goes crazy thinking about it!!! Was he getting fresh material while she was there??? Was he fantasizing about her then??? He must have been is what my brain keeps saying! He swears he wasnt to this day, but I dont believe him. At first he just fantasized about them here and there, maybe once a month. Then it was once a week, which he has stuck to. At first it was not masturbating to them, no way. Then it was masturbating to them here and there, then finally to the once a week. First the masturbation to them wasn't to full fantasizes, it was just still images of them...he finally admits it was full out fantasizes.

He went home in July for a weekend and went to visit my other two sisters (I didnt know at that time), and now it kills me thinking about it. How can you masturbate to the thoughts of people and then when you see them not think of it?!!! He swears he didn't think of it then, that it didnt come to mind. That makes no sense to me and not for a second do I believe it. My sister who lives close to us hasn't been around us since. I am close to my sisters so this has got to be the most painful part for me. It hurts me so bad I can hardly handle it and there's no way to describe it. To make matters worse, I ask him WHY?! Why would you do that?!!  and he says that it was because he knew things about them. I told my husband everything and I trusted him. I talked to him about everything, including the things my sisters told me about their sex lives. Wow. Now I think, I was telling you about my sisters sex life while here you are masturbating to it!??? He claims hes not attracted to them, he has nothing for them, he doesnt want them. The only think he can think of is because he knew stuff about some of them (not all Of them), and he was into porn it somehow turned into that.
It kills my gut, and my whole body would go cold whenever we would discuss it at first. I remember the most, one evening getting ready to go out and I start the conversation. Mistake! At the end I am on my exercise ball crying so hard I can hardly see, cuddled into the corner trying to get away, from him, from this stuff, from the pain! It's a tiny bit better now when we discuss it but not much. At first whenever my sisters would text me, call me, write me anything, it would trigger me. Sometimes I wouldnt write back and it still bothers me to see their names. I know they didnt do anything. I am not mad at them, but to talk to them, especially at first, with that knowledge, hurt SO bad. I always hide my phone from him. If I think he sees them write me, I automatically wonder. Whats he thinking? My sister was asking me if she could come stay with me (they have often, and I like it when they stay) and I went into sheer panic. I froze as soon as I red it. When she suggests visiting, my mind goes crazy....Now I dont know how I can be around my family and be ok. I am SO angry at him and feel like he has put a huge wedge between me and my sisters whom I love so much. I hate him when I think about it, intensely. WHY would he do that? If he has nothing for my sisters WHY? And why the closest people on this earth to me!!!??? How many people on this planet and he chooses them?!!

Ok, so this is getting very long and I still have more. I am also getting way to upset to continue. I will write more tomorrow. Sometimes I am scared this will never get better. He is not doing P or M or O (without me) as far as I know and I believe him for the most part...but I am still hurting so bad and angry. Will I ever not feel hate towards him when I think of it? Will I ever respect him again? Will I ever be able to be around my sisters when he is near?? grrrrrrrrr So angry, so hurt, so upset!!! Thanks for listening! Please any advice, thoughts etc would be appreciated.

 

[pinkerton]

So sorry for how you are feeling now. I can't help much from the female side but as far as the porn and fantasies go, i've thought of some pretty ridiculous things in my quest for the high (which is what it's really all about when you get down to it). I know that doesn't justify it. And i can't speak for your husband but in my case and for most men i've talked to, the porn has nothing to do with the wife. I've always thought my wife very attractive and enjoy sex with her, the porn and fantasies were essentially an addiction to chemicals we have in our brains.
I doubt this has been much comfort. But please remember that you are not alone as a partner of an addict and your husband sounds a lot like myself and other addicts. I hope he will seek help for it and i hope that you will continue to seek help for you as well. You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. Take care.

 

[Objectified1]

Pinkerton, thanks for the reply. The way I see it is, he started it when we were together. He obviously wasn't always addicted, so why, if he loves me would be even resort to looking at other women? As far as getting help. This forum would be my first Step towards help I guess. Him... He wants an accountability partner but is having trouble finding one. He says he is not having trouble not viewing the porn. We do have covenant eyes anyway. I don't believe him, but there's not a lot he says that I do believe. Now that I know he was having fantasizes about complete strangers we/he saw on the street, I have immense trouble every time I leave the house with him. I'm like a paranoid freak. I'm watching him constantly and I SWEAR he's still looking all the time. It's like he just CANT NOT LOOK. if there's an attractive girl with tight pants on or someone dressed in appropriate he acts all uncomfortable. You would think there was an irresistible naked girl standing not too far from us. It makes me sooooo upset. It feels like he is having so much trouble because there's someone he wants to lust over and he. Just. Can't. I tell him, by all means look! If It feels so hard for him to keep his attention on me, I'm not sure I want it. I often feel it would be so much easier to throw in the towel. He says he's not tempted whatsoever, it's just the fact that he knows I'm watching and long story short causes him to feel under a lot of pressure. Yea, sorry, dont believe him. 
I notice you say your wife....what's your story? I notice you are working towards staying clean. You've been a member for over year. I'll be blunt. Why aren't you clean yet?
The fact that I have to deal with this issue he caused for the rest of our lives makes me also want to leave. There really couldn't be an issue more insulting and harmful to a wife's self esteem. If he had of done what he knew was right in the first place we wouldn't be here. Me hurting like hell, him with a now, lifelong addiction to filth. The battle starts in the beginning. This battle should've been won when we said I do. If he had of been true to his vows, If he had of valued me, this wouldn't have happened. But he didn't. He instead chose to indulge his selfish desires at my cost and the cost of his family. So now, I constantly struggle with that fact. WHY stay? Why manage an addiction he created against his promises?! He threw me away once, I'm not yet sure if it's not the last time.

 

[Emerald Blue]

I'm so sorry to read your story, Objectified1. And how devastating to you that he revealed having fantasies about your sisters. That must feel so awful, I can't even begin to imagine how disorienting that must feel.

The only thing I can guarantee about coming to terms with this porn issue is the shock and awe of it. You think it's 'just' porn and then you realise it's like an infestation that gets everywhere. It's pretty clear that your man has a problem with porn and sexualised imagery at the very least. The ogling seems to be a typical trait of the porn addict, and although we can't read their minds I daresay that they have sexual fantasies about women which are Inappropriate and which I suspect are like fixations or a kind of sexual infatuation about particular women they know, certainly when they are in the grip of their porn addiction. I won't go there as far my partner is concerned, because I think it's probably healthier NOT to zone in on specifics ie the details, otherwise the thoughts and images that build up in your imagination can become quite upsetting and even disturbing.

First things first, you need to look after you. You have young kids that depend on you and that's responsibility enough even if life was going great. But it's not. So get as much support from anywhere you can - practical, whatever. Just look after yourself and don't neglect yourself. As for your husband, he needs to man up and admit he's got problems with this porn shit. If he can't quit, he needs professional help. If he doesn't think he has a problem and he has no intention of quitting, he won't change. That's the bottom line.

If he is committed to quitting, it's gonna be a hell of a bumpy ride, judging from what you've written.

There are some great people here, strong women who are survivors and who understand how it feels. So please post and get it all off your chest. There are people who understand.

 

[Objectified1]

Emeraldblue, thanks so much for you input. It is very appreciated. As far as him quitting porn. He swears he hasn't looked at Porn or masturbated since May. He says he had trouble quitting the fantasizes and now it's just mainly looking at women. To give him some credit he has improved greatly in the last few months. Now he doesn't stare and almost drewl. He claims sometimes it's automatic and it happens before he even realizes it. A habit that he has formed since he was a teenager. His Ed has greatly improved and now in its place seems to be performance anxiety. If we've been fighting or I ask him a question or get suspicious in the middle of things (yep happens, who knows what is going on in his mind now). He has looked for an accountability partner and he is talking with an elder from our church about the issues. He leaves his phone at the door, has deleted Facebook and has covenant eyes on it as well as parental controls. He now sets his alarm in the am twice, 15 minutes apart. First one is wake up time and 2nd is get out of bed. He spends the 15 mins cuddling with me. He calls when he arrives at work now . He has read worthy of her trust by Jason Martinkus and is started at every mans battle by Fred stoker. He has told me he will do anything and everything to earn my trust and "fix" things. (Is that possible!?) So, especially while thinking of what he did, I tend to paint him in a bad light. Sometimes I barely notice the good he does I'm so wrapped up in all the bad he did. It just hurts so much. I feel so rejected, abandoned, used, gross, fat, ugly, devalued. The list goes on. I know you understand because I have read some of your posts.
Part of what bothers me about it all is the -" it's an addiction." Yep, it sure is NOW. But it wasn't. And it's what they chose for an addiction! If my husband was loving me, valuing us, caring for me, honouring me, CHOOSING me, being committed like he claimed to be when we said I do.... He wouldn't be addicted to porn right now. It started, an addiction of getting off to other women started and got formed by him "cheating" on me first. It didn't start as an addiction. People continually say, " he loves you, it's an addiction." BULL! He was lusting and self pleasing, desiring other women... That's how it al started and THEN it BECAME an addiction. I have so much trouble believing him now when he says I love you and I don't know how to get past it. Sometimes when we are talking about it and I get upset, he says I love you. And my reply is, and what does that mean? What exactly does it mean to me that you love me? Or you for that matter? Your love for me did what? Got you addicted to porn? So don't tell me you love me, it means nothing.

 

[Emerald Blue]

I know? saying "it's an addiction" doesn't explain why they chose porn in the first place, because there was a stage when they did have choice. I found him out right at the beginning and he kept on doing it. Every time he was found out he used it as an opportunity to learn how to get better at not to be found out. I became the "enemy". So yes, he had a choice and he chose porn. That is an indisputable fact.

There are some recovering porn users who post on here, and although they offer some very valuable insight, the "addiction/dopamine" theory does not really address how to repair the relationship issues that occur when one partner has been a habitual porn user for many years. Explanations of dopamine spikes don't do anything to address communication problems or help rebuild trust, or help us to feel good about ourselves. The addiction part of the problem is only one part of a very complex situation. When you've heard lie after lie, months after the immediate aftermath of dragging the problem into the open, WTF has dopamine got to do with that? They don't lie to get a dopamine fix, do they?

The inescapable fact is that porn has devastating effects on the relationship and on the partner's own feelings of self worth, and that's what we want to see our men make an effort to put right. Learning to communicate openly and honestly, for example. Realising that they didn't only leave us alone in the bedroom feeling like the girl that nobody chose at the high school dance, they left us alone to cope with all sorts of shit that was going on in our lives whilst they escaped into porn. I wonder if years and years of porn makes men lose their ability to see sex as part of a close relationship when feelings are shared in a state of intimacy and togetherness. It's as if they don't only detach physically, they detach emotionally too. Once the addiction behaviour is no longer active, we're still left with the chasm that the porn habit has created. That's why "it's an addiction" doesn't really help us. It's only one part of OUR picture, and as partner's we're not the addicts anyway. We have our own set of issues.

 

[Objectified1]

Thanks Emerald Blue, I am glad to hear your take on things. I totally agree with you .

 

[pinkerton]

Hi objectified1, just wanted to answer your question about why i'm still not clean yet. I honestly don't know. Like many on here i've spent twenty years in that mess and i suppose my mind is tangled up with it in more ways than i'll ever fully understand. I'm going to try to keep doing the best i can in the situation i've put myself in.
It sounds like your husband is doing really well. I know there is a long way to go but one day it will be something you look back on instead of something that you feel immersed in. I wish the best for you. I think i will stick to my little area of the forum, i don't think i belong over here.

 

[Emerald Blue]

Pinkerton, the addict/user perspective is always welcome. Some guys have shared some very interesting insights on this forum, but I also think that some recovering addicts/users have found our opinions and experiences rather challenging at times.

I have challenged some of the received wisdoms about porn addiction, or rather given a woman's perspective. When men are so habituated to porn, it seems that they lose sight of the fact that women have their own needs, desires and preferences when it comes to sex, fantasy and even romance. Sometimes we state a few home truths too and they can be quite harsh, but then again, some of what I've read by male addicts is rather upsetting too.

What we are interested in on this part of the forum is how to heal our relationships. We need to understand the addictive nature of habitual porn use and how it has damaged our relationships. But the one thing that is uniquely ours is the damage to our self esteem, our feelings of betrayal, the loss of intimacy and difficulty trusting our partners. No porn addiction theory of the explains this part of the problem, although to be fair, there are articles that touch on relationship issues that go beyond ED and sex problems.

It's very painful to lose am important part of your marriage/long term relationship to something as worthless as porn, and the women here are not going to just sit back and take it any more. We've already been though the "it's normal" and "all men look at porn". That explains why we put up with it for so long, at least in the early years. Some women have done the "watch it together" thing only to end up feeling like nothing more than a masturbation aid or a receptacle. Our collective experience shows that porn has done more harm than any potential for "good" at least in OUR relationships. We want real sex with a real man who lives in the real world. We want to be treated with respect. None of this should not be anything we should have to fight for in our marriages.

If we can help a few men to wake up from their pornified sleepwalk then we will have done some good. Recovering addicts can help us to understand a bit better too. So please read, post if you want, but don't expect us to be passive little flowers either! You have to be a strong woman to take this on, believe me.

 

[Objectified1]

Pinkerton, please don't take offence to anything I say. I really am glad that you responded. it's helpful to hear your point of view. I'm sad that you are not totally clean yet. If only you realized how much your missing. I can guarantee your wife wants all of you. I can guarantee she would give you more then you could even imagine in return if you would only allow her to have all of you. You DESERVE great love and friendship. I am sure that your shame from porn addiction and fear of intimacy are probably two things that keep you in it. She gave you her life when she said I do. She didn't want you to perform miracles or be a perfect man, believe me....more ten anything she just wants your love. ALL OF IT!! have you ever red the covenant eyes blog? If not you should. Other then the obvious, what is it that porn does for you?

 

[uglyduckling]

I echo your sentiments in your post EB. We welcome all views/opinions/thoughts/feelings about this subject. There's no need to sugarcoat it though. The effects of porn on everyone involved are far reaching and long lasting. We cannot be expected to get over it because it's been brought to the forefront now that our partners are trying to get right and honest. I try my best to live in the present. Worrying about the past or the future is detrimental to my mental health. After the initial anger subsided, I try my best to be patient, kind and understanding. Some days are diamonds. Some days are coal, but I'm not going to let porn beat me. I will leave the relationship before it does. As long as he is making an honest, earnest effort, I will be by his side. I am showing him more respect than he ever gave me.

While I think our relationship has improved over the past few months, some days I want to run. I want all of this to go away. I don't want porn in my/our life. I didn't ask for it. All I wanted was to be married to someone who would love, honor and respect me. While I don't doubt his love for me, I was dishonored and certainly not respected. That is hard for me to get over. I want to know why, but he insists he doesn't know. How can someone not know why they turned to porn? How can someone not know why they let this insidious shit take over their life? I don't know if I buy the dopamine addiction spiel. Yeah yeah it's scientific and all that, but sometimes I think it boils down to immature selfish instant gratifying behavior.

In one of our talks this weekend he tells me he thinks he's got the worst end of this. He says not only is he trying to quit porn but also having to change his life style. Whoa...what??? Needless to say, I was incredulous. I had to step back, walk away and count to ten. I calmly told him that this is not a competition of who's got it worse, and he shouldn't even go there. So you see...we still have a long way to go. I think that was a very immature, selfish/self centered statement for him to make. I once asked him years ago that if he died, what would I find...a computer filled with porn? magazines? dvds? Would I find anything that would make me hate him for all eternity? I thought it was a deep soul searching type of question...something that should have made him take pause. Sadly I guess he just didn't care enough to stop then. All of this is what's so damn harmful and heartbreaking for the partners of PAs. I once wondered if choosing to stay with him and see this through was the sign of a weak or strong person. I'm strong as fuck! I know my husband would not have had the wherewithal or intestinal fortitude to stick by my side if the tables were turned. He's just not that strong, and he will tell you that himself. I think all the women who have decided to stay with their partners are pretty fanfuckingtastic!!! We deserve to be loved and cherished...and a whole hell of a lot more!

 

[Objectified1]

Uglyduckling, I listen to every women on here writing and I hear the same thing. I can really relate to how you feel, especially with regrards to WHY? That's my question to hubby. WHY? This whole thing is indeed agonizing. His answer is the same.... I don't know. It did turn into something that made him feel better when things were going so horrible. An escape I guess.... Then it turned into an addiction. I ask him, why did you ever pick it up on DAY 1?! Why!? MAybe part of me doesn't want to allow him ANY excuse. I'm so angry and I feel so cheated. It makes you feel like the biggest idiot for not seeing what he was doing to me behind my back. Why should I be made To feel like a sucker because I trusted the man I should've been able to trust?!

 

[Objectified1]

Some days I am great and some days this is so hard. I am so angry that he has brought this into my life. I never realized till now that you can love and hate someone all at once. There are times that I feel extreme hate for him. I guess I can honestly say there are times I care for him but the level I care about him at this moment is most definitely decreased compared to the past. I was so naive and silly. I knew that he looked at other women and I also knew that he has watched porn once in a while. I was irritated by it and though it was very disrespectful to me but at the same time I realized he couldn't close his eyes and not see other women. I thought the porn had stopped. Of course there are other women in the world and there are even more beautiful women then me out there (figure that out hey? lol). Never in a million years did I ever think that he was wondering what they looked like naked and fantasizing about them. It kills me to write that, makes my stomach turn....Grrrrrr. I need to find a way to get rid of this anger....I want to start working out again. I used to years ago and have stopped. I feel it would help immensely. Another thing, my husband is a bit overweight...not huge, but he sure isn't the skinny guy he used to be. I am a bit overweight. I have had 4 kids, he has had none (as is obvious lol). Can you imagine where we would be if I acted and thought the same as him!? I would've been gone long ago!! Why the double standard????
This is the problem. Men are groomed in our society from the time they are young to the fact that women are judged and valued according to their body shape and size. Women contribute to the problem because as young girls we dont even realize but we are groomed to the same theory. We get attention and value by showing off our bodies. That's how we earn love. That's the underlying message that is taught us. When you leave the house, what do you see at the Walmart check-out? Women plastered everywhere on magazine covers half naked. No men in speedos, or naked men on them. When you drive down the street in the spring/summer what do you see? Half naked women wandering the streets everywhere....Covering ourselves up is not about shame. It is about respect, respect for ourselves and for other women etc. When we put our goodies on display, so to speak, we cheapen our value. You dont see too many men walking down the streets in speedos or teeny tiny shorts. You walk through the mall what do you see? Lingerie stores with women plastered everywhere in lingerie, life sized and bigger. Not just are they there almost naked, I walked by one the other day and wanted to hold my hands over my daughters eyes as I did. Why is the women in her lingerie in her seductive pose with her finger in her mouth??? Because its saying, look girls, this is what you want to look like. THIS is what you will look like if you buy this...PHFT. When you buy it and go home, is hubby disappointed that you dont look like the bigger then life sized model (that is fake) on the window??? How many stores do we see men plastered on the windows pretty much naked? In seductive poses of course. Tight undies on to leave "the package" barely to our imagination. T.V. ads, Superbowl, car ads etc...When selling cars, how many men are draped across cars as people wander by them to look at them? Car washes is another good example, I'm sure it happens here and there but the majority of them have fake big boobed women washing cars while men sit in them, not men draped across them half naked, white see through underwear on, washing them as women sit inside drooling. They say men are more visual. I WONDER WHY??!!! Women in this world are grossly made as objects to be VIEWED, not as people, NOT as partners. As trophies. Porn only confirms what men are taught in the world around them. The only difference is, in the world around them, it happens so subtle that we dont even realize it. It happens so often that we have become accustomed to it and therefore accepting of it. If women lived in the same reality as men, we would be JUST as visual. Women are visual too. I get turned on by a nice body IF I dwell on it. I get turned on by a mans erection (sorry for all the description, just being honest). But we dont see that do we? Men are not objectified like we are in this world. Therefore women have not grown up and are not taught in everything we do that men are for our sexual satisfaction and eye candy for us to oogle as we go about our day.
I do feel sorry for my husband in one sense. He truly swears he didnt realize porn was wrong. When he was a 13-14 year old boy his dad would take porn out into the living room and put it in for him and his friends to watch. My husband tells me that he thought there was lots of women out there "like that". He never even entertained the thought that women are not really like that. How sad!! There his dad is, in actuality abusing him, ruining a special part of him and teaching him how to abuse women by actively doing it with him. It breaks my heart. It hurts me too.I'm scared for my daughters. I now realize that the chances of them getting a man that isn't into this or hasn't been warped to some degree by this stuff is very low. I HAVE to teach them, I HAVE to train them how to recognize it and how they should respect themselves, their bodies and their sexuality.

Pinkerton, Do all of us a favor please. Stop the porn and stand up for us. Fight for us women. For you wife, for your children if you have any. We cant rid the world of this but we can make a difference. We need people like you who can help. You can save other young guys from this fate, and therefore women too.

 

[Steam rolled]

Sorry for your pain objectified  along with others
I to echo everything that has been said in this thread it is all so true and real.

Emotions we go through are just crazy and feeling stupid is definitely one of them.
I feel stupid because I knew something was going on I pretty much knew it was PMO but at that point in time my SO became so disgusting and pathetic to even look at that I just brushed it off and just wished I was wrong knowing deep down inside I was right.
It got to that point you do your thing I'll do mine I just didn't realize that his "thing " was morning noon and night - out of control!!
until that day when it all came to light  and here I am.

The sad part about this is my SO has changed  and I'm having a real hard time excepting this change because it went on for so long right in front of my face basically .
I will tell you right now if he ever went back to PMO for all he has said and done in the past 20 months he would deserve a award for acting.
No it's not impossible to just let it go and in my SO case he let it go cold turkey!!!!  Oh he was caught two other times but at the time I will stress we did not realize the damage that this causes to men and relationships.
Was just like most attitudes------it's just Porn.
Wake up people there's a lot more to it than you think and if we don't wake up  Life quickly becomes a nightmare.
And It's not so easy to wake up from as  said above and throughout the site.

 

[pinkerton]

Thanks for your responses. Maybe i was a little quick to decide to stay out of here. I think it is worth noting that my first reaction to the pain and anger of the women here was to get the hell away. That's been my approach to dealing with any feelings (except the happy kind), especially when it comes to emotions of females.
  To answer a question from objectified1- i don't know why i keep going back to it. I havent used it in two weeks and have had no inclination to do so. But, what has always happened before, is that at some point it gets in my head and my mind does a 180 and there is just this compulsion. One strange thing about it is that it has nothing to do with me being 'horny' - i mean i'm not feeling a sexual urge at those times but a desire for the high. And the part of me that knows it's wrong and pointless is just barely noticeable. A faint noise or none at all.
It is baffling and i've often felt like there are two of me. It seems insane when i write it out.
  That's my best attempt to answer. And i'd like to mention that, for all our similarities (addicts), we all seem to have a unique experience with addiction and recovery. So, what i have described may not match the experience of another.
Also, having learned so much more about this thing, i am definitely going to do my best to make sure that my children don't have the same experience as me. I'd love to keep them off the 'net til they're 30.

 

[Objectified1]

Pinkerton, Thanks for that insight. Maybe, and of course this is just going by what I read, maybe your issue is that you haven't identified your triggers and learned to stay away from them or halt them? Just a thought. It sounds like you are too far gone by the time you realize it and then there's no going back. I have red some journals and the one guy was saying that he had to identify triggers and then stay away from them. He found if he went so far there was no going back. Makes sense.

 

[Emerald Blue]

Objectified1, thanks for describing so well the ways in which women are viewed and objectified in our increasingly sexualised culture. Images of scantily dressed women are everywhere, and as you point out, you see in in storefronts, magazine covers, advertisements, music videos, etc etc. The pressure on women to be a size 4 with 36DD on top, and to never show any imperfections or signs of ageing, or put on weight, or lose too much weight, to have boob jobs and botox and all the rest. We aren't "allowed" to be real or to be ourselves. It's about as realistic as the expectation that all men should be forever 25 years old, with perfect classically handsome features with the musculature of an Olympic athlete, and wear those clingy cycling shorts that leave nothing to the imagination just so we can check out whether they measure up to our expectations. But the world isn't like that. Instead we have overweight, balding middle-aged men who go to lap dancing clubs where they with pay a young woman to strip naked and for a bit extra cash she will grind on his crotch. And just how many clubs exist for women where they can have a young toy boy to flex his muscles and perform a few tricks with his penis? None that I've ever heard of. But you get my point.

I'm actually quite astounded at by the double standards I have seen in porn addicts. I suspect that viewing porn habitually over a long time changes the ways that women are viewed and judged and changes mens' expectations about women. I've seen men report that they regarded their wives/GFs as "fat" or "ugly",  I've seen one who became repelled by his wife's pubic hair and another who criticised his wife for wearing cosy PJs instead of "lingerie", and if she had, then he might not have any "need" to watch porn. OK, these guys MAY be the exception but it gives us an insight on how porn promotes the idea that the only women who are fit for any kind of sexual attention are the forever young/big boobs/long legs/hairless barbie doll types dressed up in basques or peep hole bras or whatever. In comparison, we accept our men with a few more wrinkles and a larger waistline, and we certainly wouldn't expect them to prance about the bedroom in a leather thong. (OMG! The very thought of it is so ridiculous! )

Somewhere in this sexualised culture, our voices - the voices of real women - are not being heard. We are not prepared to be written off when we reach a certain age or body weight or if we have small boobs or like to wear cosy PJs, or anything else that may be completely normal and natural. Aren't we entitled to sexual pleasure? Aren't we entitled to wear clothes and shoes that are comfortable? Aren't we entitled to show our life experience on our faces as we grow older? Aren't we allowed to be comfortable with our bodies as nature intended? We don't need to be told we are not good enough just because we are who we are. We are not consumer products! We are living, breathing, moving, feeling, human beings. We laugh, we love, we cry. We don't expect our men to be anything different either.

It is a tragedy when a man in a committed relationship gets hooked on porn because it robs both partners of real experience. Whilst porn allows men to live in an artificial make-believe place where they pretend to have sex, all they are doing is masturbating to a computer screen. There's no love, there's no intimacy, there's no vulnerability, there's no experience of shared lovemaking. And the same goes for the partner. All we feel is a huge void. We feel the loss long before the behaviour starts to create problems for our men. I hope this helps you gain some perspective. Please work on your recovery. No marriage is worth losing over this shit. You have so much more to gain. Both of you.

 

[Objectified1]

EmeraldBlue, you said it well! I did laugh out loud at the thoughts of my husband, half bald with his gut prancing around our bedroom in a leather thong! Like the one lady stated, and I agree, I think men that go through this are men who are very self centred and immature. It is very immature. With that being said, hopefully going through this and the realization of how immature and selfish they are with inspire change. Anyone can mature and become less selfish with work.

 

[pinkerton]

EmeraldBlue, it is appalling that men say those things about their wives. Maybe their brains have been warped to expect and want some idea of perfection.
And addicts of all kinds are immature and selfish. The addiction only cares about itself and there is also arrested developement when addiction occurs. In AA they say that whatever age you were when your alcoholism began, that's how old your mind still is when you sober up. I have found that to be mostly true for myself. All the life skills you gain with maturity are halted or stunted when you're doping your brain with something else and avoiding your problems.
I am an emotional moron. I often don't know what i'm feeling or why until my wife explains it to me. Consequently it is tough or impossible for me to understand her emotions and their origin. But i'm learning.
  I agree that no marriage is worth losing over this and i hope you'll keep it going both ways (seems that you ladies are).  When i try to look at this from the outside it is just so ridiculous and silly. I would be laughing if i wasn't the one involved.  And it does not seem fair to me to end a marriage because of this stupid crap, especially when kids are involved. I can't imagine saying, "sorry kids. I know you're real happy here but i watched porn too much so now i will only see you every other weekend".  But that is a very real fear of mine.

 

[Emerald Blue]

I don't want to to turn these topics into playgrounds for men-bashing though. I believe that to come through this we need to have some understanding of the addiction itself and how it affects our guys. I was very, very angry at my husband for "leaving me" for porn, angry at porn, angry at society, angry at myself. Some days I have flashes of anger but it soon passes. But it's also important for my own recovery and for the future of my relationship not to get stuck in the anger loop.

I'm a lot more understanding of my partner's situation. I know it's an addiction and the way he describes it, it's so fucking weird, I cannot relate to it at all. Pinkerton, what you say about being like two people, he's said similar things. The internal struggle, the low that follows on from acting out, I had no idea about the downside to it and how he wanted to quit but couldn't because he'd return to porn to escape the effects of it. We just want to rage at our men for abandoning the part of our relationship that should be special, and for making us feel worthless. So I've had to understand his experience as much as he had to understand mine. It's not all about some guy having a party, it's actually quite a lonely and empty experience, and not only that, even the physical pleasure isn't all it should be, ejaculation without much of an orgasm and even loss of physical sensation. I asked my husband why he kept doing it, and he said it's like being stuck on a treadmill. There's always going to be a better video that gives you the ultimate experience, but it doesn't exist. But you still feel compelled to seek it out. He was glad to get it all out in the open because it was making him miserable.

I think you make an interesting point about the age at which it all began. My husband is old enough to have first experienced porn in magazines and later on as videos that had to be bought in a store that sold such material, or go to movie theatre that showed X rated movies. Although he didn't have the means or the opportunity to be a porn "addict" there were definite signs of him being vulnerable to it. As soon as he discovered internet porn, his addiction was almost instant. It's quite difficult to pinpoint when the problem really began because the "addiction"couldn't happen until he could shoot up as much porn as he could want, but the roots of the problem pre-date it. There was definitely an element of using porn as some sort of self medication.

I've really tried to understand the problem from different perspectives, not just as the partner of a PA. I'm doing my best to look at the bigger picture. I'm a lot more forgiving and a lot more understanding. It's not an easy situation but it's not worth the emotional cost and certainly not worth becoming just another weekend dad. Most of us want to be there for our men and rebuild our relationships. That's why we're here. But to go through it all again would be so painful, and anger is how we try and protect ourselves from the very thought of it. Don't throw away a good marriage because it's as rare as gold dust, and losing your kids would be devastating for all concerned. Its not worth it.