AnonymousAnnaXO
Active Member
Beautifully written Stillme, your posts are so insightful, dead-on, and inspirational, I actually save some of them to look back on when I'm down because they re-stabilize me when I get down.
"It's all we ever talk about"
- Thread starter maria
- Start date
aquarius25
Respected Member
Stillme, can I ask for clarification on who you are not agreeing with?
N
Numez
Guest
yeah i was wanting to say this, i mean i wanted for partners to realize this for themselves because it sucks for me to say to someone "hey, it does not look like your partner is really deserving of bunch of second chances while acting like that so you better leave" because you are emotionally attached after so many years of being together and the thought of breaking up is better applied when you come up with it yourself. in my mind, being more responsible would lead to choosing a life with another person or being single and spend time with friends for a while but i dont know what you may come up with... maybe you find a different solution but you are not gonna find it in the victim mentality.aquarius25 said:
its your choice about what you want to do now so own it. dont blame your partner for your choice. you did not had a choice to be with a porn addict (or maybe you did) but you do have a choice about what you want to do about it. i dont mean anything bad by this, i actually mean that you should be back in power position where you have more control over your life instead of depending on someone to make you happy when he cant make himself happy.
same goes for porn addicts who want to blame anyone for their addiction so blame game is disempowering both ways.
Trauma does NOT work like that. It can take weeks, months, and even years for someone that has experienced trauma to be able to take the steps needed for full recovery. That is OKAY. Stop victim blaming and stop telling people they are recovering wrong. For some victims, their experiences and symptoms following d-day are clinically proven to be similar to someone that has experienced Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - it isn't a simple as just getting up and moving on. Just because one person can do that doesn't mean a person who doesn't is wrong.
My gosh, the victim blaming here is nauseating!
My gosh, the victim blaming here is nauseating!
AnonymousAnnaXO
Active Member
Nikola, can you look up PTSD for me. I have PTSD from my rapes and PTSD from my fiance's addiction. If you learn what PTSD is and how it can affect someone then maybe you can see why someone might not be able to move on.
I can say that the day after D-day My partner skipped work because I was too scared to have him out of my sight because that is how much I didn't trust him. PTSD is paralyzing especially when you are still figuring out WTF is happening. For someone who hasn't experienced PTSD this could be like living in an alternate reality. It's very scary. I can say I have C-PTSD from the addiction due to the many times I discovered things (even if small) and the lies that damaged were horrid. I can say even with having PTSD from my rapes, it was a totally different experience with the addiction and honestly, it took me months to figure out triggers, figure out my mood swings and all the other areas of PTSD.
Once you read about PTSD, betrayal trauma, healing from an affair, and understand, then you can come back with more knowledge and understanding of our situation.
I can say that the day after D-day My partner skipped work because I was too scared to have him out of my sight because that is how much I didn't trust him. PTSD is paralyzing especially when you are still figuring out WTF is happening. For someone who hasn't experienced PTSD this could be like living in an alternate reality. It's very scary. I can say I have C-PTSD from the addiction due to the many times I discovered things (even if small) and the lies that damaged were horrid. I can say even with having PTSD from my rapes, it was a totally different experience with the addiction and honestly, it took me months to figure out triggers, figure out my mood swings and all the other areas of PTSD.
Once you read about PTSD, betrayal trauma, healing from an affair, and understand, then you can come back with more knowledge and understanding of our situation.
aquarius25
Respected Member
I am not sure where I have stated how someone should do their recovery. I don't think I have ever started that someone is doing recovery "wrong". I don't really see that anywhere. I did encourage educating, seeking support, and knowing who you are and that you have a choice. I never told anyone what to do. Trauma is traumatic, which is why it is more important than ever to equip yourself with all of the knowledge and support you can. It is also important to start trying to grapple (to the best of your ability) with boundaries. I really believe that this is something all people should do in every relationship, porn addiction aside. Boundaries are healthy, knowledge is healthy, support for life, in general, is healthy. Each day we do not leave is a day we choose to stay. That is the truth. Each person is different and on their own path to recovery. I am not telling anyone how they should do it or when it needs to be done. I am merely trying to offer support and encouragement. I found it very empowering and healing to realize that I have a choice, that I am not stuck, and that it is ok to leave if I want to. I thought sharing that with someone else would be helpful.
Sorry to offend.
Sorry to offend.
N
Numez
Guest
maybe we describe responsibility different.
im responsible for my addiction, its only me and nothing and nobody else. being responsible only means im not blaming nothing else on my relapse. i still want to kill myself sometimes, especially after i relapse but im not blaming stress or friend or anything on it. if i blame anything else, what hope i have to change for the better? taking responsibility actually may feel worse than blaming world or others but its the only way to solve the problem. taking responsibility is not moving on in the sense of not giving a damn about your partner or not experiencing bad effects of whatever is bothering you. taking responsibility is merely taking a charge and being able to change the life circumstances for the better instead of just depending on someone else to change in order for you to change.
i said that, in my own mind, leaving would be the solution but everyone is different, thats why i promote responsibility instead of specific way of dealing with it. when you take back your seat, you will see what is the right for you to do in your situation, but only when you take back your seat... taking back what is yours is all im talking about. all that ignoring the problem and effortlessly moving on is not what i mean by responsibility.
im responsible for my addiction, its only me and nothing and nobody else. being responsible only means im not blaming nothing else on my relapse. i still want to kill myself sometimes, especially after i relapse but im not blaming stress or friend or anything on it. if i blame anything else, what hope i have to change for the better? taking responsibility actually may feel worse than blaming world or others but its the only way to solve the problem. taking responsibility is not moving on in the sense of not giving a damn about your partner or not experiencing bad effects of whatever is bothering you. taking responsibility is merely taking a charge and being able to change the life circumstances for the better instead of just depending on someone else to change in order for you to change.
i said that, in my own mind, leaving would be the solution but everyone is different, thats why i promote responsibility instead of specific way of dealing with it. when you take back your seat, you will see what is the right for you to do in your situation, but only when you take back your seat... taking back what is yours is all im talking about. all that ignoring the problem and effortlessly moving on is not what i mean by responsibility.
Emerald Blue
Well-Known Member
NN, I doubt very many partners on this section expect their porn addicted spouses to "make them happy". We've mostly been in our relationships for many years. As a couple, we've shared our big life events, the good and the bad. We've seen each other at our best and our worst. We've shared the happiest days of our lives and the deepest sorrows. And none of these experiences that come to mind have nothing to do with porn. We are committed to our relationships because these are part of the foundations of our lives. We draw upon our relationships to give us strength when we need it and give strength to others. That's why our relationships are worth caring about.
The difficulty with porn addiction or any kind of betrayal trauma is that the one who was once the source of strength and support in our lives becomes the source of our pain. Yet we know from experience of negative life events that we can very probably survive this too, but it's not easy because neither partner can turn to the source of their pain and realistically expect safety and reassurance. Hence the wildly conflicting emotions throughout recovery, especially in the early stages i.e. the first year.
Regarding trauma, it's not the porn per se, it's the deception that was used to protect and perpetuate the habit and the withdrawal from sexual and emotional intimacy. In effect, the addict rejects the partner in favour of the artificial high. The sexual relationship sustains the very close bond of a committed relationship, and in time, the behaviour of the addict will start to erode one of the very important foundations of the relationship.
The trauma for me was the discovery that he was addicted to this shit and it had altered his sexual template. That this shit was everywhere, on all his devices, on his phone. And then I found out about him going to strip bars which I had no fucking idea about. So I was like "who the fuck is this guy?" And the worst part of it was until all this online porn shit started, we had an incredible and beautiful sex life. And he gave it up to wank to a computer screen? Even he can't believe he actually did that. The sexual aspect of our relationship was probably the easiest part of recovery but the emotional baggage from his porn addiction is where the real difficulties lie.
Porn addiction and all the other behaviours along sex addiction spectrum are almost always rooted in difficulties with intimacy rather than sex. Emotional intimacy and porn addiction can't coexist. That's why porn addiction is so corrosive because as the habit progresses the addict withdraws emotionally from the relationship, yet in other aspects of the relationship that are more about companionship and sharing time together, the relationship can function pretty well. But up to a point, because eventually the addict checks out of those areas too.
It may well be true that each of us is responsible for our own happiness just as we are responsible for our own behaviour. But in a relationship, there is a dynamic. Two people are jointly responsible, but neither can control the other. I can be honest about my feelings but I can't force my partner to be honest about his feelings. I can eat well and look after myself, I can read, i can dance, I can do all sorts of things that feel good and create happiness for me as an individual but none of this has much the partner and the relationship. Unfortunately abstaining from porn isn't recovery and when the porn stops the addict has to face up to all sorts of issues of his own that are rooted in early life, the problems his addiction created for himself and the relationship.
I'm saying all this to show that porn addiction within a long term relationship can be hugely complex.
The difficulty with porn addiction or any kind of betrayal trauma is that the one who was once the source of strength and support in our lives becomes the source of our pain. Yet we know from experience of negative life events that we can very probably survive this too, but it's not easy because neither partner can turn to the source of their pain and realistically expect safety and reassurance. Hence the wildly conflicting emotions throughout recovery, especially in the early stages i.e. the first year.
Regarding trauma, it's not the porn per se, it's the deception that was used to protect and perpetuate the habit and the withdrawal from sexual and emotional intimacy. In effect, the addict rejects the partner in favour of the artificial high. The sexual relationship sustains the very close bond of a committed relationship, and in time, the behaviour of the addict will start to erode one of the very important foundations of the relationship.
The trauma for me was the discovery that he was addicted to this shit and it had altered his sexual template. That this shit was everywhere, on all his devices, on his phone. And then I found out about him going to strip bars which I had no fucking idea about. So I was like "who the fuck is this guy?" And the worst part of it was until all this online porn shit started, we had an incredible and beautiful sex life. And he gave it up to wank to a computer screen? Even he can't believe he actually did that. The sexual aspect of our relationship was probably the easiest part of recovery but the emotional baggage from his porn addiction is where the real difficulties lie.
Porn addiction and all the other behaviours along sex addiction spectrum are almost always rooted in difficulties with intimacy rather than sex. Emotional intimacy and porn addiction can't coexist. That's why porn addiction is so corrosive because as the habit progresses the addict withdraws emotionally from the relationship, yet in other aspects of the relationship that are more about companionship and sharing time together, the relationship can function pretty well. But up to a point, because eventually the addict checks out of those areas too.
It may well be true that each of us is responsible for our own happiness just as we are responsible for our own behaviour. But in a relationship, there is a dynamic. Two people are jointly responsible, but neither can control the other. I can be honest about my feelings but I can't force my partner to be honest about his feelings. I can eat well and look after myself, I can read, i can dance, I can do all sorts of things that feel good and create happiness for me as an individual but none of this has much the partner and the relationship. Unfortunately abstaining from porn isn't recovery and when the porn stops the addict has to face up to all sorts of issues of his own that are rooted in early life, the problems his addiction created for himself and the relationship.
I'm saying all this to show that porn addiction within a long term relationship can be hugely complex.
Nikola,
The getting over "rape" analogy is a poor one in the way you are utilizing it. Rape victims typically have the benefit of distance from the perpetrator to heal. Domestic victims of all varieties do not. Healing while your "rapist" is there everyday in the place that is your refuge from the world - your home - is a continual mind fuck. You never get a reprieve from the victimization. It makes the processing and working through it all very difficult and in a significant percentage impossible.
The ladies here are dealing with something unusual. They are literally discovering who their partner really is. Not what he projected and lied, not what she thought and got fooled into, but what is reality. What ends up happening on the other side is literally "This is not what I agreed to. Not what I signed up for. There's been a bait and switch. Can I do this? Do I even want this?" line of questioning and investigation. It's all very clouded, this investigation, by previous feelings, shared experiences, memories, and sometimes children. It's like trying to put a jigsaw puzzle together in a dense fog. The fog being the combination of what she emotionally feels about their past, and the reality and destruction of the present. Because it's a fog, every once in a while, you can see a bit and snap a piece into place. Snapping that puzzle piece into place can be a positive thing or a negative one. Perhaps you find an answer that you can support and work with and a door swings open. Perhaps you find an answer that is non-negotiable and a door firmly closes. This process takes some time.
Ladies,
Read beyond his clumsy analogy and language trouble a bit (english is not everyone's first tongue). There does come a time when recognition that you might be pursuing the impossible should come about. I do advocate for mitigating your damages in cases where the wounds are so extreme for you, you know you'll not be able to move beyond it. We all have our points of 'no going back' along with a measure of internal knowing of what those points are. Self care and self concern must be a consideration for us. We require it to be healthy for ourselves and any children we might have.
The getting over "rape" analogy is a poor one in the way you are utilizing it. Rape victims typically have the benefit of distance from the perpetrator to heal. Domestic victims of all varieties do not. Healing while your "rapist" is there everyday in the place that is your refuge from the world - your home - is a continual mind fuck. You never get a reprieve from the victimization. It makes the processing and working through it all very difficult and in a significant percentage impossible.
The ladies here are dealing with something unusual. They are literally discovering who their partner really is. Not what he projected and lied, not what she thought and got fooled into, but what is reality. What ends up happening on the other side is literally "This is not what I agreed to. Not what I signed up for. There's been a bait and switch. Can I do this? Do I even want this?" line of questioning and investigation. It's all very clouded, this investigation, by previous feelings, shared experiences, memories, and sometimes children. It's like trying to put a jigsaw puzzle together in a dense fog. The fog being the combination of what she emotionally feels about their past, and the reality and destruction of the present. Because it's a fog, every once in a while, you can see a bit and snap a piece into place. Snapping that puzzle piece into place can be a positive thing or a negative one. Perhaps you find an answer that you can support and work with and a door swings open. Perhaps you find an answer that is non-negotiable and a door firmly closes. This process takes some time.
Ladies,
Read beyond his clumsy analogy and language trouble a bit (english is not everyone's first tongue). There does come a time when recognition that you might be pursuing the impossible should come about. I do advocate for mitigating your damages in cases where the wounds are so extreme for you, you know you'll not be able to move beyond it. We all have our points of 'no going back' along with a measure of internal knowing of what those points are. Self care and self concern must be a consideration for us. We require it to be healthy for ourselves and any children we might have.
Mik (or Nwalt, whatever). C'mon, man. You're working on being a better person. Remember? No need to pour gas on the fire.
What's gone on here is miscommunication. It's easy for misunderstandings to arise in topics where emotions run high. Forums don't always allow for fully grasping where another person is coming from. I do not believe Nikola meant to be hurtful. I believe he means to be helpful and merely conveyed it in too abrupt a manner.
What's gone on here is miscommunication. It's easy for misunderstandings to arise in topics where emotions run high. Forums don't always allow for fully grasping where another person is coming from. I do not believe Nikola meant to be hurtful. I believe he means to be helpful and merely conveyed it in too abrupt a manner.
Very, very good points EB
I can tell that NN is very young, because even putting out there things are as simple as "leave or stay" show a life with limited complexity. While not everyone on this site has children, I do. We have three children together and they are all at one of the more vulnerable stages of childhood - the tween/pre-teenage years. Having children that are young and vulnerable means that it isn't about simply thinking about what would make 'me' happy, I have to put their needs above mine for the time being. And honestly, the 'time being' is probably another eight to teen years until they are successfully launched into adulthood.
The other part of having kids is there is really no such thing as 'leaving'. You will be co-parenting along with the person. Whether my husband and I stay married or get divorced, he will be an intricate part of my life for the rest of my life because we have children. It isn't just organizing visitation schedules and doctors appointments. It will be figuring out who sits where for high school and college graduation, what role we each play in weddings, how do we handle family holidays that we all used to share together. You can't just get up and walk away - those children have tied us together for the rest of our lives. We will not only share children, but hopefully one day grandchildren and great grandchildren. We will always be a part of each other's lives, there is no such thing as 'walking away' at this point. We are joined forever on at least some levels.
Even if you don't have children, many couples that have been married for a significantly long time share assets. Who gets the house? How gets the car? What about the retirement accounts? When you are in a committed relationship, you don't just share a bed - your entire life gets intertwined with one another. Divorce is complex and even simple ones take months. If there are children involved and/or significant assets - legal divorce can take YEARS. Some countries require couples to live apart a minimum of one year before divorce proceedings can begin. That means you have to be able to financially juggle two households while your finances are still entangled. You can't simply leave town for a better job or to start that 'new life'. If it was a simple as just walking out the door, I believe most people would have already done that.
Then there is the emotional entanglement. For over a decade, my husband was my best friend. Even when the sex had died out in our marriage due to his porn endured erectile dysfunction - he was still my best friend. He is honestly the only person on the planet I have ever shared my true heart with. My hopes and dreams, my fears and disappointments, everything. Walking away from someone you didn't just love romantically, but you loved as a person. When we are deciding whether or not to walk away, we are decided whether or not to leave a relationship we had for most of our adult lives - and some of us aren't that young. Some of us have lived with our spouse longer than we lived with our parent. This wasn't a fly by night relationship, this was decades together. My husband and I have been married just shy of fourteen years - that is a LOT of life together. A lot of laugher and tears, a lot of sickness and health, a lot of good times and bad times and even great times.
That is what makes the betrayal so hard, so bad. It isn't like we were married to someone who was outwardly lying and deception, absolutely not. The reason why this was so traumatic was because it was so unexpected. Absolutely nothing that my husband showed through his use of porn was any aspect I thought was a part of his character. No, I didn't think he was perfect. I knew and accepted his faults that I was aware of, just like he knew and accepted mine. But, this journey through porn - never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined my husband would do something like that. If someone would have walked up to me before d-day and said, "Hey, I saw your husband coming out of a shady massage parlor, he probably got a blow job." I would have honestly laughed at them. Nope, no way. This man was a dedicated husband and father. He loved his kids too much to risk getting arrested going to some illegal massage parlor for something as stupid as a blow job! And, he would never be stupid enough to have some stranger's lips on his penis! Or, so I thought. If someone would have said, "Your husband was in a webcam chat room telling some women to stick or fingers in her vagina then lick them." again, I would not have believed it. Again, I didn't assume my husband was perfect, but I honestly to goodness never thought that was his thing. I never turned him down for sex. I was pretty much up for anything he even suggested (when we were having sex that is). He was such a vanilla sex person I pretty much tamed myself down for him. I have a pretty high sex drive, but never would impose myself on my husband. So, to find out he was paying women to watch them masturbate while he masturbated - when I was in the bedroom ready and willing? And nope, I am not unattractive or out of shape or anything else.
So yeah, it is traumatic when someone you have known for years and have been married to for almost 14 years, turns out to have characteristics and qualities you never, ever would have imagined. I never thought of my husband as a liar. Sure, I thought he would lie to save his life, maybe to get out of silly trouble. But, to actually be a habitual liar - never would have thought that. I would never have intentionally married and had children with a habitual liar, never. So yes, it is traumatic to find yourself in a long term marriage with a man who turns out to be someone you literally never would have married if they would have shown their true self. And to sit there and pipe up, "just walk away" - if only if was that easy. My entire life is on a different path because of this marriage. For the good of the family, I turned down a career path that I had worked hard, really hard for. I am living in a town that my husband chose. These things were not an issue and not something I complained about because we were in this 'together', it was the part of the sacrifices made because that is what family does. Now, come to find out - things were so one sided and the sacrifices were all on my end and now I am supposed to just "walk away". Did you know that a court could NOT let me move even if I wanted to because we have children together? Even if I wanted to move, because my husband is rooted here a judge could tell me that I am required to stay in this area. So no, walking away isn't that easy.
I can tell that NN is very young, because even putting out there things are as simple as "leave or stay" show a life with limited complexity. While not everyone on this site has children, I do. We have three children together and they are all at one of the more vulnerable stages of childhood - the tween/pre-teenage years. Having children that are young and vulnerable means that it isn't about simply thinking about what would make 'me' happy, I have to put their needs above mine for the time being. And honestly, the 'time being' is probably another eight to teen years until they are successfully launched into adulthood.
The other part of having kids is there is really no such thing as 'leaving'. You will be co-parenting along with the person. Whether my husband and I stay married or get divorced, he will be an intricate part of my life for the rest of my life because we have children. It isn't just organizing visitation schedules and doctors appointments. It will be figuring out who sits where for high school and college graduation, what role we each play in weddings, how do we handle family holidays that we all used to share together. You can't just get up and walk away - those children have tied us together for the rest of our lives. We will not only share children, but hopefully one day grandchildren and great grandchildren. We will always be a part of each other's lives, there is no such thing as 'walking away' at this point. We are joined forever on at least some levels.
Even if you don't have children, many couples that have been married for a significantly long time share assets. Who gets the house? How gets the car? What about the retirement accounts? When you are in a committed relationship, you don't just share a bed - your entire life gets intertwined with one another. Divorce is complex and even simple ones take months. If there are children involved and/or significant assets - legal divorce can take YEARS. Some countries require couples to live apart a minimum of one year before divorce proceedings can begin. That means you have to be able to financially juggle two households while your finances are still entangled. You can't simply leave town for a better job or to start that 'new life'. If it was a simple as just walking out the door, I believe most people would have already done that.
Then there is the emotional entanglement. For over a decade, my husband was my best friend. Even when the sex had died out in our marriage due to his porn endured erectile dysfunction - he was still my best friend. He is honestly the only person on the planet I have ever shared my true heart with. My hopes and dreams, my fears and disappointments, everything. Walking away from someone you didn't just love romantically, but you loved as a person. When we are deciding whether or not to walk away, we are decided whether or not to leave a relationship we had for most of our adult lives - and some of us aren't that young. Some of us have lived with our spouse longer than we lived with our parent. This wasn't a fly by night relationship, this was decades together. My husband and I have been married just shy of fourteen years - that is a LOT of life together. A lot of laugher and tears, a lot of sickness and health, a lot of good times and bad times and even great times.
That is what makes the betrayal so hard, so bad. It isn't like we were married to someone who was outwardly lying and deception, absolutely not. The reason why this was so traumatic was because it was so unexpected. Absolutely nothing that my husband showed through his use of porn was any aspect I thought was a part of his character. No, I didn't think he was perfect. I knew and accepted his faults that I was aware of, just like he knew and accepted mine. But, this journey through porn - never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined my husband would do something like that. If someone would have walked up to me before d-day and said, "Hey, I saw your husband coming out of a shady massage parlor, he probably got a blow job." I would have honestly laughed at them. Nope, no way. This man was a dedicated husband and father. He loved his kids too much to risk getting arrested going to some illegal massage parlor for something as stupid as a blow job! And, he would never be stupid enough to have some stranger's lips on his penis! Or, so I thought. If someone would have said, "Your husband was in a webcam chat room telling some women to stick or fingers in her vagina then lick them." again, I would not have believed it. Again, I didn't assume my husband was perfect, but I honestly to goodness never thought that was his thing. I never turned him down for sex. I was pretty much up for anything he even suggested (when we were having sex that is). He was such a vanilla sex person I pretty much tamed myself down for him. I have a pretty high sex drive, but never would impose myself on my husband. So, to find out he was paying women to watch them masturbate while he masturbated - when I was in the bedroom ready and willing? And nope, I am not unattractive or out of shape or anything else.
So yeah, it is traumatic when someone you have known for years and have been married to for almost 14 years, turns out to have characteristics and qualities you never, ever would have imagined. I never thought of my husband as a liar. Sure, I thought he would lie to save his life, maybe to get out of silly trouble. But, to actually be a habitual liar - never would have thought that. I would never have intentionally married and had children with a habitual liar, never. So yes, it is traumatic to find yourself in a long term marriage with a man who turns out to be someone you literally never would have married if they would have shown their true self. And to sit there and pipe up, "just walk away" - if only if was that easy. My entire life is on a different path because of this marriage. For the good of the family, I turned down a career path that I had worked hard, really hard for. I am living in a town that my husband chose. These things were not an issue and not something I complained about because we were in this 'together', it was the part of the sacrifices made because that is what family does. Now, come to find out - things were so one sided and the sacrifices were all on my end and now I am supposed to just "walk away". Did you know that a court could NOT let me move even if I wanted to because we have children together? Even if I wanted to move, because my husband is rooted here a judge could tell me that I am required to stay in this area. So no, walking away isn't that easy.
N
Numez
Guest
rape victims may not benefit much from distance from the perpetrator if they keep blaming him for their self esteem, sexuality and hope for the future afterwards. nobody is holding a gun next to your head and makes you live with a "rapist". all i suggest is for partners to stop waiting for their husbands/boyfriends to change when there are no signs of the change that is supposed to be coming. i suggest actually doing something about your life instead of waiting on someone to do something for you.
waiting on someone may be easier than doing something, especially in these situation when there are no pleasant choices to make, so that may be a problem too.
i want to be helpful but i see that i can get misunderstood in too many ways too easily. i only try to promote what i already said, little more responsibility because OP wrote about self esteem, sexuality and hope for the future. those are the big things that you should be responsible for. making a porn addict responsible for your self esteem, sexuality and hope for the future is very hurtful for you.
i said that there are many ways to solve the problem because everyone is different so that is why i dont suggest leaving someone or anything specific, yet in the very first sentence of the latest post, stillme said im putting things like "leave or stay". stillme, i actually said that im not suggesting leaving or any specific thing to do. all i suggest is what attitude/mindset to have...
also some people misunderstand what responsibility is, its not ignoring, its not effortlessly moving forward, its not "not giving a fuck". i might try to say what is responsibility one more time but maybe not...
maybe its my clumsy language, i learned english only through music, movies and video games and thanks to spell checkers i am able to write this.
AnonymousAnnaXO
Active Member
So because I can't have sex in certain positions it's my responsibility? It's the responsibility of the rapist who traumatized the victim by abusing them. If a rape victim can't have sex, is it the victim's fault? The victim may be getting help but that doesn't change the fact that the victim may not be able to have sex, or gets triggered by sex.
I still can't have sex with the lights out or I have a flashback and can't recognize or remember who I am having sex with (it's a very terrifying experience). Is that because I didn't do enough to move on and help myself? It's been 4 years since the rape and I've done 4 years of working on myself with a therapist trained in EMDR and trauma and I went through that EMDR hell and re-lived my rape a thousand times, yet I still can't do certain things. Trauma can only be healed so much depending on the intensity, and how many times it was repeated.
So when an addict ABUSES their partner, OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR YEARS, is the partner, even when they've gotten help from every source (articles, forums, therapists, books, friends, etc.) responsible for when they still can't feel something/do something because of the trauma?
Trauma, for most, is a forever impact. I can say I've worked my ass off to recover from my rapes, and from my partner's porn addiction, yet, I still get triggered, and I still sometimes can't handle things though I've worked on them. I've taken responsibility for taking care of myself, yet there are still lasting effects which cannot be healed if the addict does not help out (i.e. start being honest, trying to prove they are sorry, being in recovery and so on). In a relationship, it takes two to heal damage. We can only do so much before we need the other person to chip in and support or help us out. We are responsible for taking care of ourselves, but what if we've done all that and there are still issues because the other person has yet to do the same for themselves or for the relationship? That is where the addict needs to take responsibility. Even if they quit porn, that doesn't begin to solve anything. What about the lying, the cheating, the fact they could do that to you over and over? Environment can profoundly damage the human psyche.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201311/the-neuroscience-post-traumatic-stress-disorder
This is a bit off topic, but explains my point perfectly. I am writing my senior paper on psychopaths, specifically what makes certain psychopaths violent ones. Psychopaths have certain genetic predispositions and brain damage. The thing that makes a psychopath violent or not violent is whether they endured EARLY CHILDHOOD ABUSE/ABANDONMENT (i.e. environmental factor). Now, the psychopath is responsible for killing those people, but the psychopath wouldn't have been violent had they not endured years of abuse or neglect. It literally changed the expression of the genomes in their DNA and "activated" those violent genes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8RxRn6dWU
So I can try to make the argument that a person who has been abused might be predisposed to anxiety or depression, but may not have had that issue impact their life a lot, but once they were abused, the genome expression for anxiety or depression was "turned on" so now the person is depressed or anxious all the time. So yes the individual has a responsibility to help themselves, but the responsibility of hurting and changing that person falls on the abuser.
Hopefully the neuroscience talk was understandable, I tried to make it simple. Does that make sense?
I still can't have sex with the lights out or I have a flashback and can't recognize or remember who I am having sex with (it's a very terrifying experience). Is that because I didn't do enough to move on and help myself? It's been 4 years since the rape and I've done 4 years of working on myself with a therapist trained in EMDR and trauma and I went through that EMDR hell and re-lived my rape a thousand times, yet I still can't do certain things. Trauma can only be healed so much depending on the intensity, and how many times it was repeated.
So when an addict ABUSES their partner, OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR YEARS, is the partner, even when they've gotten help from every source (articles, forums, therapists, books, friends, etc.) responsible for when they still can't feel something/do something because of the trauma?
Trauma, for most, is a forever impact. I can say I've worked my ass off to recover from my rapes, and from my partner's porn addiction, yet, I still get triggered, and I still sometimes can't handle things though I've worked on them. I've taken responsibility for taking care of myself, yet there are still lasting effects which cannot be healed if the addict does not help out (i.e. start being honest, trying to prove they are sorry, being in recovery and so on). In a relationship, it takes two to heal damage. We can only do so much before we need the other person to chip in and support or help us out. We are responsible for taking care of ourselves, but what if we've done all that and there are still issues because the other person has yet to do the same for themselves or for the relationship? That is where the addict needs to take responsibility. Even if they quit porn, that doesn't begin to solve anything. What about the lying, the cheating, the fact they could do that to you over and over? Environment can profoundly damage the human psyche.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201311/the-neuroscience-post-traumatic-stress-disorder
This is a bit off topic, but explains my point perfectly. I am writing my senior paper on psychopaths, specifically what makes certain psychopaths violent ones. Psychopaths have certain genetic predispositions and brain damage. The thing that makes a psychopath violent or not violent is whether they endured EARLY CHILDHOOD ABUSE/ABANDONMENT (i.e. environmental factor). Now, the psychopath is responsible for killing those people, but the psychopath wouldn't have been violent had they not endured years of abuse or neglect. It literally changed the expression of the genomes in their DNA and "activated" those violent genes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8RxRn6dWU
So I can try to make the argument that a person who has been abused might be predisposed to anxiety or depression, but may not have had that issue impact their life a lot, but once they were abused, the genome expression for anxiety or depression was "turned on" so now the person is depressed or anxious all the time. So yes the individual has a responsibility to help themselves, but the responsibility of hurting and changing that person falls on the abuser.
Hopefully the neuroscience talk was understandable, I tried to make it simple. Does that make sense?
AnonymousAnnaXO
Active Member
Great video Stillme!
The amount of miscommunication here is astonishing. As Nukola Numez tried to explain several times, what he means by "be responsible for your happiness and self esteem" is:
take charge of your life, try not to make your happiness depend on somebody who can not get his own life together, try to make your own decisions, do what you think is best for you and your children.
He never said it is the victims fault for getting hurt. And he never said to just walk away. Just tried to give advice on how to regain power.
Not everyone here is a native speaker.
take charge of your life, try not to make your happiness depend on somebody who can not get his own life together, try to make your own decisions, do what you think is best for you and your children.
He never said it is the victims fault for getting hurt. And he never said to just walk away. Just tried to give advice on how to regain power.
Not everyone here is a native speaker.
JediMaster
Member
All of these partners are doing exactly that. For most of them, that means fighting for the relationship and hoping that they care as much as their partners do. And as for any children, fixing the relationship would be the best thing for them. Nothing is worse for a child than divorced parents.
Taffer said:Loleekins said:
Whom do you speak of madam? I only know what I see, which is Nikola politely disagreeing, and getting dumped on by immature children as a result. I suspect there is a reason Malando is warning newbies signing up to stay the heck away from the partners section, unless your only intention is to kiss the ground they walk on. Duly noted, I'm not getting involved, though I may comment from time to time on the antics
Wait, we are "immature children". Dude - weren't you jacking off to porn so much you broke your dick - or are you just here for fun. This is HILARIOUS! Yeah, being a porn addict is a sure sign of maturity.
AnonymousAnnaXO
Active Member
Okay but most of our partners ARE capable of getting their life together. If we can't say we are depressed neither can they. They're responsible for getting better right? If we need to take responsibility so do they. We go out and learned and got support, and implemented coping strategies. What about these addicts? Where is their effort? What about their responsibility to themselves and to the relationship? They can't just say, "Oh I hurt you I'm so depressed" and then do nothing. The difference is we express our pain, but we ACTIVELY do things to take care of ourselves. The addicts seem to "love" to just be complacent because their brain has been "trained" for no work = rewards. Well, real life isn't like that, so they need to get off their arse and get in therapy, talk about their emotions, take steps to move forward. Accomplishments and moving forward require work.
Again, two people who have been together in a serious committed relationship, their lives are intertwined. It's unrealistic to think that one person's actions won't affect the other. I affect my partner, and he affects me. We can take care of ourselves, but they need to as well.