"It's all we ever talk about"

[JediMaster]

As for responsibility, first language or not, it's the same definition. By that definition, the addict is the sole cause of the partner's pain and feelings.

The addicted partner uses porn and most likely lies. The other partner says it makes them feel hurt, this that and the other. The addict is then the cause of all those feelings. If the addict wasn't an addict and never lied, the feelings wouldn't be there. How is it then, that the faithful partner is responsible for their own happiness when the addict is the one that took it away? All the partner wants is the addict to show they care. They want nothing else but for things to be ok, which in most cases they will never be the same but both partners can be very happy together if the addict takes responsibility for fixing the damage that THEY caused. "they caused" being the keywords that define responsibility.

 

[JediMaster]

The only thing that's changed for you is your user name

 

[Taffer]

try not to make your happiness depend on somebody who can not get his own life together,

Okay but most of our partners ARE capable of getting their life together.  If we can't say we are depressed neither can they. They're responsible for getting better right? If we need to take responsibility so do they. We go out and learned and got support, and implemented coping strategies. What about these addicts? Where is their effort? What about their responsibility to themselves and to the relationship? They can't just say, "Oh I hurt you I'm so depressed" and then do nothing. The difference is we express our pain, but we ACTIVELY do things to take care of ourselves. The addicts seem to "love" to just be complacent because their brain has been "trained" for no work = rewards. Well, real life isn't like that, so they need to get off their arse and get in therapy, talk about their emotions, take steps to move forward. Accomplishments and moving forward require work.

Again, two people who have been together in a serious committed relationship, their lives are intertwined. It's unrealistic to think that one person's actions won't affect the other. I affect my partner, and he affects me. We can take care of ourselves, but they need to as well.

I do recall something about addicts also being responsible for themselves, in Nikola's many repeated attempts to make the same point.

 

[Tomte]

Wait, we are "immature children". Dude - weren't you jacking off to porn so much you broke your dick - or are you just here for fun. This is HILARIOUS! Yeah, being a porn addict is a sure sign of maturity.

1. "People jerking off to porn so much that their dick breaks are immature"
2. "I never jerked off to porn so much that my dick broke"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: I am not immature.

Classic logical fallacy.


I'm out of this topic, nobody is really replying to the arguments of anyone else.

 

[Emerald Blue]

NN, most of the people on this section are not "waiting for their partners to change" nor are they expecting their partner to "make them happy". Many of our partners have made significant changes in their lives besides quitting porn. Many of us, the female partners of recovering porn addicts, have also had to decide what they want their relationships to look like, and what they want their lives to become. As I said before, when you take away the porn, what do you have? And as I've said many, many times on this section, porn addiction can mask a multitude of issues within a relationship, some pre-existing and some as a consequence of the porn addiction. And repeating myself again... where there is a relationship, "recovery" has three distinct strands ? the addict's recovery, the partner's recovery and the recovery of the relationship as an entity in itself.

For some people who join this section, they've only just discovered the extent of their partner's habit and in those cases, sometimes he will not or cannot quit. At one time I may have been in their shoes. If someone shares a home and family with a porn addict it's an entirely different situation than with a 19 year old who has only known their boyfriend for three months. In my own family I have a relative who is a sex addict throughout their marriage, but there were kids, and there were properties, an acrimonious divorce. One of the kids has nothing to do with the addict/betraying parent, and the addict/betraying parent is still creating disharmony within the family. Ending the relationship does not mean "problem solved" where kids are involved. And don't forget, kids grow up and become adults but they don't forget, they have divided loyalties. The betrayed spouse can never leave that relationship even though they were the one to initiate the divorce. The kids were also betrayed and they feel it even when they don't know or understand.

But getting back to NN. Yes, we are responsible for ourselves, but a relationship is just that. People RELATE to ONE ANOTHER. It's a dynamic situation. We aren't two strangers, or two robots. What one does affects the other and vice versa. And as every relationship is a unique product of two unique individuals, there's no rulebook. It's our very own creation. It takes two people who act and react with each other, so obviously what one does, or says, or thinks will affect the other. Both are responsible for the relationship. If one acts in a harmful way towards the relationship it will happen negative effect on the other. So if Maria's partner is not respecting their commitment and acts in ways he knows will hurt, then of course she's going to feel it. If her self esteem is undermined, I get that. If her sexuality has become a source of unhappiness, I get that. If she questions her future, I get that too. She's only at the beginning of a long journey back to recovery, and she needs safety and acceptance so she can express herself. We should give her the time and space to do this. Nobody can predict how their relationship will work out after porn addiction. Nobody.

 

[Numez]

So if Maria's partner is not respecting their commitment and acts in ways he knows will hurt, then of course she's going to feel it. If her self esteem is undermined, I get that. If her sexuality has become a source of unhappiness, I get that. If she questions her future, I get that too. She's only at the beginning of a long journey back to recovery, and she needs safety and acceptance so she can express herself.

so there we go, all i said is that the beginning of a long journey back to recovery starts with little less blaming and little more responsibility... and hell broke loose. as far as we know, the way she described it, her husband might be jerking off to porn right now. its been only 30 days since the last time she caught him. start of the long journey of back to recovery starts with practicing being responsible for your self esteem, sexuality and hope for the future, right? you cant put your cards on someone like a porn addict and depend on him to quit porn in order for you to have a future? especially if he is hiding and lying to you and you keep catching him in his lies.

i think the main misunderstanding comes from defining what responsibility is. some people think its ignoring the problem, some people think its quick fix, some people think its not giving a damn, some people think its leaving, some people think its staying, some people think its not caring, some people think its the victim's fault for getting hurt if they are responsible, some people think its being selfish (ignoring the kids  ????)... i probably missed some misconceptions because there are so many.

this is working both ways, i will say it again. porn addicts are responsible for their addiction, if they blame partners, they are stuck and its simply not true that anything outside of them is responsible for their relapses. we may get addicted unknowingly (starting before high school) because we did not knew it was addictive and dangerous, but when we find out, its our responsibility to recover. no amount of stress, boredom, partner's behavior etc. is responsible for our relapse, its all on us.

 

[Emerald Blue]

There is one important issue in many relationships where one partner is a porn addict and that is that the addict has no idea what effects their is having on the relationship and even on the family. Addicts minimise, hide, lie, etc, and don't realise they have this weird reward/feedback loop going on inside their brain. So getting the addict to realise the consequences of their behaviour can take a very long time. Also bear in mind that some of the partners had no idea about their partner's porn habit. Some partners have tried to "join in" with the porn and include it as part of their lovemaking but what usually happens is that the addict still needs the porn fix and for some reason the secrecy seems to be part of it. Also,in this situation, what the addict watches alone can be very different and more extreme than what they watch together. In any case, this strategy rarely helps and many partners regret this "watch together" thing.

Sometimes yes, partners do choose to stay even if the porn behaviour continues. It's a valid decision too, but like the "watch together" situation, it's often a temporary solution. If the addict's sexual energies are diverted away from the relationship, if there is deception, if there is emotional distancing, it's not good for the health of the relationship. No one knows what the consequences of any decision will be. As I said, relationships are dynamic. In life there will always be changes. Nothing stands still. A good decision today might look like the wrong decision next year. We just don't know.

You see, for partners there is no "reboot", no "hard 90", no "flatline". There is no set path for the partner's recovery. If the addict quits it's an entirely different situation from one who continues to relapse. A partner's decision could depend on the addict quitting but we don't know if he will or he won't. And then decisions have to be made all over again.

 

[Squidoll]

Blame yourself for not admitting that you're addicted to porn. I think only you and no one can admit it, once you do that you are one step ahead on making changes in your routine.

 

[maria]

To just about everyone except NN, thank you for your input.  I never imagined there would be so many responses, but this is obviously a very common issue between addicts and partners.  I want to say that for all of you (myself included) who have been raped and abused, I agree with all of your comments.  It is too bad that NN is so fixated on being right and being heard that he has now dug himself a hole large enough to reach China.  Hopefully he finds a nice province to live in while he's there and we never hear from him again. 

I applaud all of you who took the time to provide support and HELPFUL advice for this original comment made to me which left me feeling like I can no longer ask any questions or open any discussions for fear of imposing on him.  You all could see that I am new to this process of healing and I appreciate everything you have said.

Good luck to all of you in your journeys.

 

[Emerald Blue]

Maria, I'm very sorry you had to endure these unhelpful responses to your post. Unfortunately the partner's section will sometimes attract male porn addicts, often those who seem to be incapable of quitting porn for a week or two, and often single, but for reason feel they have the experience and authority to believe they can "help" the partners of porn addicts in long term committed relationships. Are they in any position to "advise"? Rarely, if ever. Sometimes recovering addicts who are committed to the recovery of their relationship as well as their own recovery from their porn habit have made valuable contributions to this section but they are the ones who truly "get" recovery. Even some genuinely well-meaning porn addicts come here to ask us about their relationship issues, but they will not or cannot even tell their partner they've been using porn and they're having problems with it. As soon as someone suggests disclosing their use of porn to their partner they make excuses as to why they can't.

This partner's section is supposed to be a safe place where any partner of a porn addict can freely express themselves and find a sympathetic ear. Why some kid who still lives with his parents, has never had a sexual relationship and can't quit porn for more than 48 hours actually believes they can advise someone who owns a house, is raising/has raised kids, who had a university degree, or teaching or nursing qualification, who has a responsible job and puts food on the table, or whatever... come on, that's just ridiculous. Do they give their parents careers advice or financial advice? I doubt it. So why do these guys believe they can give us relationship advice??

As for the "why don't you just leave?" kind of "advice"from porn addicts, do these guys actually think we've never thought of that one??!! Of course we have. Many many times. I've said it here myself, being the partner of a porn addict is a choice and the most sure fire way of resolving this is to end the relationship. We're no longer the partner of a porn addict. Take responsibility? Hmm. Like we don't already? Just look at the posts and you'll find it's the partners that take decisive action to address the relationship issues.

Sorry you had to endure this, Maria.

 

[aquarius25]

Maria, I'm very sorry you had to endure these unhelpful responses to your post. Unfortunately the partner's section will sometimes attract male porn addicts, often those who seem to be incapable of quitting porn for a week or two, and often single, but for reason feel they have the experience and authority to believe they can "help" the partners of porn addicts in long term committed relationships. Are they in any position to "advise"? Rarely, if ever. Sometimes recovering addicts who are committed to the recovery of their relationship as well as their own recovery from their porn habit have made valuable contributions to this section but they are the ones who truly "get" recovery. Even some genuinely well-meaning porn addicts come here to ask us about their relationship issues, but they will not or cannot even tell their partner they've been using porn and they're having problems with it. As soon as someone suggests disclosing their use of porn to their partner they make excuses as to why they can't.

Wow! Yes there are some PA's that fit this mould but that usually isn't the case, and most certainly not across the board. I have been surprised by the support and encouragement that I have received from Partners and PA's alike. We all have something to offer and something to give, unfortunately, we are also human so we don't always understand and we don't always communicate well due to language barriers and just our environments. That is ok though because sometimes hearing a different perspective that you don't agree with can help you realize what you do agree with. It can show you where you are at and put a lot of things in perspective. It is not always bad to hear different perspectives. I think this process is hard. It long. It's not easy. We are all different but if we can encourage each other with love than we can recover together. That is what community is. Yes some the PA's are young and might not understand everything but even young people can surprise you. I learn from my kids all the time! I have heard that same young man encourage other PA's to not hide and lie but to tell their partners. He has encouraged a lot of men to be open and honest. Things aren't always black and white, and certainly not with porn addiction.

This partner's section is supposed to be a safe place where any partner of a porn addict can freely express themselves and find a sympathetic ear. Why some kid who still lives with his parents, has never had a sexual relationship and can't quit porn for more than 48 hours actually believes they can advise someone who owns a house, is raising/has raised kids, who had a university degree, or teaching or nursing qualification, who has a responsible job and puts food on the table, or whatever... come on, that's just ridiculous. Do they give their parents careers advice or financial advice? I doubt it. So why do these guys believe they can give us relationship advice??

Yes it is sposed to be a safe place. Unfortunately just like everywhere else in the world where there are people you are going to have some of those experiences too. I have even felt attacked and judged by other partners. The important thing is to not allow those experiences to impact who you are and where you are at in your recovery. All advice you read here and everywhere, run it through your own filter. See what fits for you.

As for the "why don't you just leave?" kind of "advice"from porn addicts, do these guys actually think we've never thought of that one??!! Of course we have. Many many times. I've said it here myself, being the partner of a porn addict is a choice and the most sure fire way of resolving this is to end the relationship. We're no longer the partner of a porn addict. Take responsibility? Hmm. Like we don't already? Just look at the posts and you'll find it's the partners that take decisive action to address the relationship issues.

As for whether to leave or not. Each situation is different. Know our boundaries, know your options, and know you are not helpless. Helpless is a scary and terrible feeling. Porn can strip away at your self-worth, your confidence, and frankly your soul by just being the partner. Don't give it that power over you. Build yourself up, decide for yourself what you can commit to and what you can't. There is not a right or wrong answer. It's about being healthy and finding out what that looks like for you.

Your thread has created lots of conversation, that is a good thing. It forces us to reflect and see where we are. So for that, I say thank you. I wish so much for you to heal, and grow from this. Know you are not alone. There is a comunity here to support you.

 

[Loleekins]

"for partners there is no "reboot", no "hard 90", no "flatline". "

Amen to that.

 

[maria]

Emerald and Aquarius,

Again, thank you for the support and encouraging words. 

Loleekins,

Ditto.

For everyone, if you read REBOOTRAPP's blog you will see that he is very sympathetic towards the partners, and I have gotten some very kind words and insight from him. 

I wish all of you all the good things you have wished for me.