The importance of a "hot female body" for "good sex"

SlaveToRighteousness

Active Member
SO Reboot Partner said:
It makes me kinda sad that a woman's appearance can have such a huge impact on a man's ego and his standing with other men. That is really what we are talking about here, right? Ego?

Yes, it is ultimately about ego. I hadn't thought of it that way until recently, but now I can see that this is another layer in the PMO addiction onion that needs to be peeled away and discarded.
 

sender

Active Member
OldHornyGuy said:
if appearance, pretty much by itself, is the criteria to have "good sex" then "good sex" is really just masturbation.  I mean, really, if you are just looking at her and getting off (pardon my French there) it's not really intimacy, it really is just masturbation.


I think this is the key point. 

Without getting too philosophical, I think it's pretty obvious that sex serves two functions: (1) reproduction and (2) bonding / intimacy.  The PUAs are forever locked in the lather-rinse-repeat cycle of the reproductive agenda.  They don't know it, but they are just mating machines.  Whether or not they use contraceptives, they are serving the genetic imperative to procreate, investing huge amounts of energy into something which is fundamentally unsatisfying.  As porn addicts, we are actually doing the same thing; the reward circuit in our brain can't distinguish the difference between pixels on a screen and a real mating opportunity.

So the man's focus on the woman's looks stems directly from the mating agenda; porn just makes it worse by amplifying and focusing on the physical attributes to the exclusion of all other qualities.  Sadly, our culture has absorbed a lot of these ideas.

But intimacy, the other function of sex, is not affected by looks at all.  We know this is true because many people don't stop having sex when they get old.  In my own experience, the sex with my wife got soooo much better once I realized all of this and stopped focusing on the porny aspects of sex and focus now instead on being in the moment and enjoying the connection.  It used to be that I could only enjoy sex with my wife from behind.  Now, I prefer to face her; to gaze into her eyes, and to kiss her.  Lately, it's the kisses that really get me fired up.
 

hellexfire

Member
I think SO Reboot Partner hit the nail on the head.

Bodies change.

A thought: what age will you be when physical attraction no longer matters? Because we're all going to get old, wrinkled, and saggy if we make it that far. x
 

Bibbity

Active Member
You will see what you focus on 100%.  Right now you keep focusing on flaws so they become magnified to you.  Start focusing on things you love about her body.  Every time a stray thought goes to negative remind yourself that you are bringing more of that negativity into your relationship.  The more I focus on my husbands flaws like his stretch marks or belly I am doing myself and him a disservice because it isn't reality.  Instead I choose to focus on his nice strong hands, his nice chiselled jaw and his biceps. 

You mentioned there are things you can and cannot control.  This is something you definitely CAN control.
 

nomox3

Member
Check out a book called "the five love languages" By Gary D Chapman. It's a way to speak love to your wife in a language she will receive it. She Can read it too, and it will help with this issue.
 

ntg2978

Active Member
This is something I've been really thinking about quite a bit recently.  I've been involved in the whole PUA community and wondering just how important looks really are (to both sexes) and if there is a difference to what we're both attracted to.

I read a book by W. Anton that really shed some light on this whole subject.

From an evolutionary point of view, men are hard-wired to be attracted to womens' bodies, because it is how they choose a woman who will have the most success in bearing children and remaining alive and healthy afterwards.  What men consider hot (warning, skip to next paragraph, as these will be triggers: perky breasts, slender bodies, youthful looking face, etc.)

are really just indicators of the most healthy females to reproduce with.  Back in early times, before all the technology we take for granted today, there were no doctor reports on whether or not a woman had a disease, whether or not a woman could or could not have children, etc. So men relied upon what a woman's body looked like in order to guage her suitability for reproduction.  Another factor here is that technology is keeping people alive that would normally have died back in these times as well.  We now have electricity, indoor & outdoor plumbing (most countries), don't have to hunt for our own food - but can get it at the supermarket, etc.  All of these conveniences mean that people who are not in the best shape physically, are surviving just fine, because they are not required to do much; however, even though this is the case now, for most of our history, this has not been the case, and it's like our brains are struggling to catch up, so men are still attracted to womens' bodies.  It is not because they are shallow, not because they are not open-minded, etc. this is a natural evolutionary causation - it's hard-wired into males to be attracted to womens' bodies, period.

Most of society says men should be more like women these days, afterall, women are not concerned with mens' bodies or looks that much, but look deeper into what a man's personality and behaviors are.  This sounds like solid advice, until you begin to understand that women are hard-wired to be attracted to this exact thing from men.  The reason is that men do not give birth to babies - so, women for most of history, did not care about men's bodies, but rather their willingness and capability to protect and keep them and their offspring safe.  Men were the ones who were responsible to keep women and their children safe from predators, from other men who wanted what they had, from men who wanted to take their woman, etc.  Women therefore naturally began to select men based upon their confident demeanor, which translated into their ability to take care of them.  Women, to this day, still look for confident men, and it's not because they are any less shallow than men, but rather because it's what has proved to show the most suitable men to reproduce with, in order to have protection and safety for them and their offspring.  Thus, what turns women on, is not a guy's legs, or his body in general, but rather the way he acts, and how confident he appears to be.  Women are turned on to things that signify a suitable sexual partner, the same way men are.

Now, what really complicates things nowadays is that women and babies are not really in any real threat anymore.  They live in houses, they can call the cops, they can shop at a grocery store, etc.  Men and their abilities is not really needed anymore, so society says that we need to make men more like women, because their particular strengths are not necessary any longer.  What they fail to realize however is that when something goes wrong (and it always does), they will not have any men to depend upon, because they are all being feminized by society at large.  Women complain these days, "where are all the real men at"?  Well, to answer that question, look at how many young boys and men in general are being socialized to be more feminine.  They are told not to be so violent, they are told as boys not to play with weapons, but rather try barbie dolls, etc.  Men still have this drive to protect and conquer, because that is what they are born for, but society would have them brainwashed to believe they hold no value in this mindset, and thus must adopt a mindset that is more based upon harmony, cooperation, and congruence.

So, this kind of a post reminds me of all of these things, and how utterly lost most men really are, and I feel I must put down these thoughts, because these are things society does not like to talk about.  Women do age, and become less attractive physically; men do go through life crises, and become less confident in themselves for a time.  I think the key is for both sexes to understand what the other one is attracted to and do their best to keep themselves attractive for the other.  For men to work solely on their bodies in the gym, and to neglect making their women feel cherieshed and loved and taken care of, will only push women away.  For women to neglect working on their bodies, and only focus on making herself a better person internally, will only push men away.  We must learn what the other sex needs, and view ourselves from that perspective, in order to remain attractive to them.

I hope this helps to clarify some things.
 

Gracie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
I find it very interesting that in the prior comment it was stated that women get older and less attractive physically but when men age they encounter life crises.  Really?  Men do not get less attractive?  Even if you do go back to prehistoric times and the protector role, men were committed to their family.  They took care of them.  They communicated with them.  There was no TV, computers, lights other rooms to be warm in.  It was the man and his family and his family was enough for him.  Once porn gets in, men tend to ignore their family, they change.  They do not participate as fully in their lives, that is the problem.  Men can be monogamous.  They can take care of their family and be there for them emotionally and physically.  And I know this will shock you but women like variety as well, we enjoy trying something new.  Men are not the only creatures with a sex drive.  Our only purpose is not to have babies and cook and clean. 
And when you talk about men being feminized, maybe you should look at the culture giving men a pass on fatherhood.  There is a lot of evidence for men "spreading their seed"  and then riding off into the sunset.  They do this because they do not choose a long term partner they choose someone to have sex with.  Our society here in the US has stepped up and provided social service to provide for these children who have an absent or unknown dad.  So if you want to man up, be there for all the seed you spread.
 

ntg2978

Active Member
I find it very interesting that in the prior comment it was stated that women get older and less attractive physically but when men age they encounter life crises.  Really?  Men do not get less attractive?

My whole statement is that women base attractiveness (primarily) upon a man's behaviors, so physical attractiveness was irrelevant.  I addressed mens' attractiveness waning in the sense that they are not there for their partner.  Obviously there is some attraction to men on a physical basis, just as there is some attraction to women from men, on a basis of their personality; but the primary attractor for men is womens' bodies, and the primary attractor for women is mens' confidence and being able to take care of women.



Even if you do go back to prehistoric times and the protector role, men were committed to their family.  They took care of them.  They communicated with them.  There was no TV, computers, lights other rooms to be warm in.  It was the man and his family and his family was enough for him.


In caveman days, there is actually more of a prevelence of men not being monogamous than there is today.  In prehistoric times, humans dwealt mainly in hunter-gatherer tribes, and the man that was in charge basically could do as he pleased (he was the leader, responsible for hunting game, protecting the tribe, etc.) thus women wanted to mate with this leader, because it better ensured they would survive the harsh realities of the time.  Thus, women competed on a regular basis to be aligned with this leader (alpha male personality if you will), and this is why women still are wired to look for such men (judged by their confident demeanor nowadays). In addition, other competitive males were constantly trying to mate with the most desireable females of the tribe, so men had to protect their own interests while at the same time leading the tribe.  The main idea in a hunter-gatherer tribe was competition for what the other one had.  Males wanted to be the leader, females wanted to mate with the leader to ensure their survival and protection.  Blaming the problem of sexual inexclusivity on technology is just not based in fact.


Once porn gets in, men tend to ignore their family, they change.  They do not participate as fully in their lives, that is the problem.

I'm not saying porn is not a problem.  I do believe however, that a lot of guys get into porn in the first place, because of this socialization of making them unprepared to be men.  What man would rather LOOK at a woman (on a video, in a magazine, on the internet) instead of actually physically making love to them?  Obviously none.  You will likely make the argument that men get started on porn as boys, and get introduced to it before they are men, to which I will counter that if their parents/guardians were being true men, no porn would be present in the first place.


Men can be monogamous.  They can take care of their family and be there for them emotionally and physically.  And I know this will shock you but women like variety as well, we enjoy trying something new.  Men are not the only creatures with a sex drive.  Our only purpose is not to have babies and cook and clean.

I never said anything of the sort.  I never said females' sex drive was any less intense than males.  I do think society tries to keep women from showing it, because they are labeled "bad" or "naughty" for simply having desires and wanting to do what's natural.  In the same way that society tries to control men, it also tries to control women.  It's not good in the least.

And when you talk about men being feminized, maybe you should look at the culture giving men a pass on fatherhood.  There is a lot of evidence for men "spreading their seed"  and then riding off into the sunset.  They do this because they do not choose a long term partner they choose someone to have sex with.  Our society here in the US has stepped up and provided social service to provide for these children who have an absent or unknown dad.  So if you want to man up, be there for all the seed you spread.

Many men are settling for women they do not really want; I know I'm not going to be popular stating this, but it's the absolute truth.  Because men are no longer taught how to actually attract women, and their confidence is socialized away by making them doubt their masculinity, men are afraid to approach women they actually really want.  I'm not saying this is or is not true in any specific case, all I'm saying is that it is true for a majority of men in society.  If you don't believe me, do a simple search for a pickup artist community forum, and read the plethora of men posting, asking for advice in how to actually get to know women.  These are the men who actually are TRYING to get better at this.  Many don't even try, they feel it's impossible to learn, and so they approach and have relations with women that are not the ones that they really desire, because they feel they're not really worthy of those women.  Like I said, I know I'm going to get a ton of flack for stating this, but anyone who reads this, instead of getting angry and immediately denying this is the truth, do a little research first.

Am I saying that men are excused for being absent when they have created a child?  Absolutely not.  One problem with men is that they have no real responsibility any more, and are not held to the status they should be held to, as the providers and protectors...however, society would not want to differentiate gender differences, that would be plain wrong, so men really have no reason to be a man anymore, and so most do not worry about it unfortunately.

These things are very complex topics in society.  These issues have been going on for a very long time.


Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogamy
http://karlwhitfield.me/2013/04/25/love-sex-and-monogamy-in-paleolithic-times-and-today/
http://healthland.time.com/2013/07/30/the-reason-for-monogamy-researchers-disagree/
 
I figured this issue out recently. I'm new to relationships, and I remember I got shocked when I saw my first girlfriend naked. Differently from the women I used to see in porn pictures and the hookers I used to go out with, she was overweight and didn't have any butt, and I remember I found that body really repulsive. It was with her that I experienced the most serious ED I've ever had, from which I'm still recovering from. When I broke up with her, I thought I wouldn't experience any ED if I picked up a pretty girl to have sex with, but it turns out that I picked up a pretty hooker soon after that and I had a lot of difficulty in keeping my dick up after penetration. I didn't feel any pleasure in penetrating her, and that's when I realized something was wrong with me. How could I, who used to be turned on by seeing women wearing bikinis, have such a turn off by actually having sex with an attractive girl?

After seeing a lot of stuff from YBOP and relating them to my experiences with porn consumption, I'm pretty conscious that porn has made me see a woman's body with a critical eye. For me, an attractive woman should have big breasts, big nipples, big butt, tiny waist and no belly fat. Recently, I could even notice things like cellulites, excessive makeup, dark circles around the eyes... and by focusing myself in such minor flaws like those, I couldn't find any girl attractive anymore!

But now, after starting the no PMO challenge, I'm experiencing a gradual change in the way I see my current girlfriend. Her body is prettier than of my first girlfriend's, but is still far from my delusional ideal of a female body. We've been dating for a little more than 1 month, which is the same time I've been in the noo PMO challenge. I feel that now, even though I relapsed one time (before joining this forum), I'm stopping to get bothered by the imperfections of her body, and consequently, I'm starting to like her more each day. What a realization!
 

olafthewise

Active Member
wow! there's a lot to be said here.
My wife is thin(er) and she always wants to say she hates her body. I am indifferent to her losing any, I just want her to exercise to stay healthy. I lost my gut to impress me. I have the best muscled body of most 52 year olds.
I can say this; clothing does make a difference. Tight jeans do to. Although I have always been attracted to thin women, I cannot see myself (if I was ever available) to be with a (plump?) woman. I also think older women look different in any swim suit and so I opt for the palm springs private pool villa where she can be nude in the sun. (unfortunately she does not accommodate me...ever). I opt for total nudity or the g-string underwear for sexy ness for my wife. There's something liberating and good looking for a woman who is older and nude. I have no complaints for my wife when she is nude.
Unfortunately, she is body-conscious and refuses to be nude for me and is indifferent to my sexual needs and blames me for her not wanting a sexual connection. Thus the porn problems which are in remission for now. I have no other thing to say here except that dopamine in the brain control our addictions.
 

olafthewise

Active Member
well, as Forest Gump says, "one less thing." fitness is my drug. So is 15 minute sunbathing. To be more healthy we went to near no sugar in the house. Coffee, tea, oatmeal, protein drinks are all laced with stevia instead of sugar. Coconut is also a good way to lose weight. read about it. I love my wife's body and I want to drink her sexuality up. sadly though, she is a prude, a bad one too. Unfortunately sex starvation (7 days) is the best way for her to perform.
I used to desire her to be tan in summer too. Then she got on this skin cancer thing and refuses to sunbathe at all...unless its a weekend, goes to the pool with kids and tries to get in a weeks worth of sun in one sitting. luckily she hasn't burned. I sunbathe 2 to 3 times per week and maintain a balanced glow. The sun is good for my depression.
So if your wife wants to lose a lot of weight fast, eliminate white bread, sugar, and all sweetened things in your home. Then start running about 5 to 6 times per week 2 miles per day, and do weight training 3 days per week.
If not, well, keep your weight on.
My wife has started and stopped her "fitness" thing on DVD twice this year. Last year, 3-4 times. She has not stamina with sickness, injuries etc.
I just like her nude anytime or place and since I am sex starved and she is a "prude gatekeeper," I can only get so much. It is a boring sex life. Porn is a way to settle depression for me. I rarely view it, but even so, that is still a problem. Being unemployed and lacking money doesn't help either. If I succeed to not view porn, I am a hero since there is nothing to replace it.
 

lilred

Member
Why do you men just look at the outwards appearance? Cant you see behind your wifes eyes to her soul?  She is still just as beautiful as the day you met her.  The only thing that has changed is the way YOU SEE her.  You eyes have been filled with someone elses daughter online and probably chatting with sluts that make money off of you , and you go the nerve to say that she is letting herself go?????????  Fuck that!  I have kids and my body has taken a toll on me.  I have men coming on to me all of the time and could still have sex with any of them at any given moment if I chose to.  We do age, its a fact of life and you should probably look in the mirror instead of the camera on your computers before you start bad mouthing your wifes body.  This is even more shameful than your private sex lives!  How can you sleep at night even thinking like this.  While you are getting your rocks off on some teenage or young girl, you should think about if it were your daughter that someone was looking at and chatting with online. 
 

Brooklyn Jerry

Active Member
Lilred, I guess men are like this because we are dogs. You hit they nail on the head about us looking at the young girls on the videos and in the cam girl rooms, when we have members of our family of the same age.I am a old fart even though I don't feel like one. I am sure no 20 year old would want to be with me unless I had two handfuls of cash .  Same goes for the strip clubs,  I am sure when the girls are with some of the gross looking guys there they must have to laugh under their breath as they take the cash.
 

lilred

Member
You are right Brooklyn Jerry, I see it all of the time.  My daughter dont even have to have sex with a man for him to start paying her rent, buy her a car, clothes, etc.  These are all old men and I taught her well.  If they are gonna be a pervert, take their money and never offer anything in return but a smile.  She can get whatever she wants and never put out for it nor send any naked pics.  I have always been honest with my kids about sex and men or women because I didnt ever want them involved with what all I have been thru.  People accuse her of doing something but she does NOTHING.  Women can work a man if they want.  I could do that but I choose not to.  I only want a faithful loving man.  I have one and when he gets thru this we will ride the wind.  Even now, if I were single again, I would take my own advice that I gave her.  Most men only see women as objects any way. 
 

Loleekins

Active Member
If it's not one thing, it's another with this issue.

Gabe once said that what he was looking at in porn wasn't even close to how attractive his gf was. Same case here.

I used to model. I know I'm attractive. I got scouted by an agent of John Casablancas back in the day. Quite a deal. They had their hands on Christie Brinkley, Stephanie Seymour, Linda Evangelista etc. at the time. (Casablancas now is not the same, it has fallen today, avoid avoid avoid.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not conceited in the least. I did nothing to get the way I look. It's nothing to be proud of. It's a genetic roll of the dice I didn't have a damn thing to do with. It's not an accomplishment, and nothing I worked for, but I'm honest, and no fool. I realize how 'the world' values it, even though I see it as nothing.

My SO looked at the freakshow. He wasn't interested in attractive. He didn't seek out perfect. He sought out gross. His searches included terms that would boggle you. It's what he got off to. And it looked absolutely nothing like me.

 

malando

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
lilred said:
You are right Brooklyn Jerry, I see it all of the time.  My daughter dont even have to have sex with a man for him to start paying her rent, buy her a car, clothes, etc.  These are all old men and I taught her well.  If they are gonna be a pervert, take their money and never offer anything in return but a smile.  She can get whatever she wants and never put out for it nor send any naked pics.  I have always been honest with my kids about sex and men or women because I didnt ever want them involved with what all I have been thru.  People accuse her of doing something but she does NOTHING.  Women can work a man if they want.  I could do that but I choose not to.  I only want a faithful loving man.  I have one and when he gets thru this we will ride the wind.  Even now, if I were single again, I would take my own advice that I gave her.  Most men only see women as objects any way.

This is one of the most depressing posts I've ever read. Do you really think like this? And you've taught your daughter to think this way too?
 
Top