28 And Done With Porn

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Thats great man! I really reccomend SMART. Most of the meetings are not PMO/sex specific but the great thing with SMART is you don't have to like introduce yourself as this kind of addict or that kind of addict. You can just go there and learn and share or not share whatever info you want.

Glad to hear you are making changes! That's the key when things don't work... make changes!

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

Thank you @quit and @Blue. Your comments really helped and I have been mulling them over all week.

What you said, @Blue, really hit me hard. I really appreciate the hard talk and it got me thinking. When have I in my life every really taken responsibility for anything at all? I don't think ever, to be honest.

I can hazard a guess as to why I might have developed this way. I am an only child with a mother who was extremely overbearing. She used to push me but never let me take responsibility for my own agency (i.e. doing my music practice of my own volition). As a result, I began to find it more fun to bunk off and rebel than take responsibility for doing my music practice/homework etc. Basically, I discovered quite young that it was extremely fun and exciting to not do what I was supposed to. I never took responsibility for bettering myself, because my mum always did it for me, and my dad himself takes no responsibility for anything either so I couldn't learn it off him. I never learnt how to take responsibility, and I still don't know how.

I spent the last few days on and off viewing P subs and PMO'ing. I wasn't taking responsibility, despite having read your comment, Blue, and having understood that it is all true. It's like as soon as I do something I'm not supposed to, I feel free, whereas when I do the stuff I'm supposed to do, I feel trapped. That's why I can never stick to a structure and why it's so much easier for me to be disorganised than organised. Then, though, when I don't do the stuff I was supposed to do, it make me feel really guilty, which leads to self hate, which leads to more shirking of responsibility by disappearing back into the abyss of doing things I'm not supposed to.

I had a chat with my wife last night about it after I couldn't get it up with her when we went to have sex. I don't even know what it looks like to take responsibility for my own agency. I have no clue where to start. As soon as I begin to take responsibility I realise I'm a lazy, selfish arsehole, and that just makes me hate myself, which makes me depressed, which leads me to feel suicidal, which leads me to relapse. There's a huge disconnect. It might sound crazy that I've got this far in life having never really taken responsibility for anything but somehow it has felt like I have coasted by and been very lucky. I never did that well in school. Never took responsibility, just coasted by and got pretty much straight B's. Without wishing to sound arrogant, but my talent, looks, intelligence, and charisma have meant that people throughout my life have helped me out a lot, often without my asking. All the while, though, I have never ever really taken responsibility for anything. Life has presented and continues to present a myriad of opportunities but because I don't take responsibility, I have passed up on many of them, choosing instead to flounder and procrastinate.

Perfectionism has been a big issue for me, but I believe I have worked through a lot of that. I will revisit some of those booklets that my old therapist gave me, though, if I can find them.

Maybe someone can shed some light on taking responsibility? I think this is a huge one in terms of my recovery and general personal development. I can't believe it took me this long to realise it! I won't say Eureka just yet, but it feels like this could be momentous, if I can learn how to take responsibility for my own agency. The questions in summary: How to take responsibility for your actions whilst not hating yourself for all your failures as a person and descending back into addiction?

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

When I was at university I was given some booklets on perfectionism by my therapist which really helped me. It's been a long time since I did them, and I can't even remember if I ever even got through all 9, but they are great for putting your perfectionism into perspective and realising that ridged perfectionism can be a hindrance if not handled correctly. It can also often be one of the core issues that feeds our addiction.

You can view them, print them, and (I think) download them, by following this link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dpDmmTO-9zIarGZ-ItArLJPghNC5YcxN?usp=sharing

Feel free to also share this link with those who need it.

 

[BlueHeronFan]

Hey, Adventurer, I'm glad what I said hit hard but in a good way. It was definitely a major realization for myself, and I think it has made a big difference.

It's a little hard to say what taking responsibility looks like (besides just like finding it somewhere within myself), but I do think there are two things that are practical outgrowths. First is being proactive: I like to make a plan for the next day before I go to bed. Instead of just seeing what happens and coasting through, I figure out what I want to do and what I need to do and schedule it out. I'm not always 100% consistent with this, but it makes a big difference when I'm really committed to it.

Second is accountability. I think this forum was a big step forward for me in terms of accountability. Writing here makes me more accountable for what I do in a day and how I think about things because I know that there will be people checking up on me. Just knowing that I will have to report in to someone helps me to take more responsibility for what I do and how I think. Again, not perfect, but progressing.

I think you're right to mull what taking responsibility means for you, but don't get stuck mulling. Even if you don't know 100% what that means, start by taking the next step. You can figure it out more as you go along.

What matters is that nothing that happens in your addiction/recovery is happening outside your control. On some level, every step forward and every step back happens with your permission. Really acknowledge that change is possible and that the power is yours. You can really do this, and only you can do this. So go out and show the world what you've got!

 

[quitforeverthenwin2]

Thanks for the booklet's man, they sound like they could be useful for sure.

I think increasing responsibility is a great idea. But first let's be more logical about where you are starting from. You certainly have taken responsibility in the past. You tied your shoes this morning right? You posted on this forum, you've made idk several 100 posts on here at least? When you got Bs in school, did someone do every single test for you? Plus didn't you mention that you walk and feed the dog much of the time? That's responsibility right there.

I am not saying this stuff just to be nice, it's just good to know where you are really starting from. Like I sometimes think "I don't know how to organize, I have never organized anything etc." but it's not true, I have taken notes made plans before etc. being more organized is just a matter of using discipline to do a lot more of something I have done a little of before.

You may not take as much responsibility as you want, but no need to build up responsibility/ agency as this alien thing that you have no idea what it is or how to do it. That makes it seem impossible. Where as taking more responsibility.... that sounds doable.

You post on this forum and have done so many times. What if you posted more often or even daily if even just for a week or two? You downloaded netnanny, you had to make some clicks on the computer well you chose to do that, what if you made some more clicks on the computer and simply opened a smart online recovery meeting? You are sharing your feelings with us here, what if you also did that with a therapist? Taking more responsibility would basically start with just doing more, step by step of the healthy helpful things you are already doing.

Not saying you have to do all of these things. Just want to point out taking more responsibility is not some totally alien all or nothing thing. You'd have starved to death or maybe be institutionalized, refusing to put food in your own mouth, if you took NO responsibility you've taken some and taken more is in large part going to be taking small actions, doing things you don't want to do. Every human has this ability and it can be worked on and improved.

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

Hi guys, thank you.

I definitely vibe with what both of you are saying.

I think I have been able to be more proactive these past days by keeping busy. I do actually always have a lot of things to be getting on with, and they are much easier to get on with when I just get on with them and don't procrastinate (seems obvious, but it's amazing how often I just put things off even if it's just sending a quick email). Often, P comes into the mix when I'm feeling down on myself for procrastinating something that I should have just got done. It's kind of a self-esteem thing. When I don't keep on top of things, my self esteem drops, leaving the door wide open for urges to not only come but to take over. When my self esteem is high, urges may come but it's much easier to not focus on them. I wonder if that's something you've experienced too?

I experienced some mild urges just now, and so will take a little break from work, take a hot shower, and get dressed in something other than sweatpants and a hoodie. Again, on the subject of self-esteem, when I'm dressed well and clean, I feel more in the mood for being productive and not wasting time.

Thank you @quit. You know, you're right, I was maybe being a bit black and white about this whole thing. However, there are certainly many areas where I could be taking more responsibility. I've been working on this these past few days and as a result have been keeping pretty busy with work and also a great day on Saturday with my new friend D, while my wife was at a horse show. We had some nice weed and took the puppy on a hike. We chilled in the sun and ate tacos. It was 72 degrees. Basically, it was the perfect day and not even a single urge came up even though I was mildly high. I think this is because I was just in a good place self-esteem wise and just didn't feel like going on the computer or watching TV at all that day.

I spend a lot of time in front of screens, but could just as easily not. So I'm gently trying to remind myself when I'm just idly watching TV, that I could be doing something more productive. I'm also trying to only go on my computer for work-related things. It has actually been working pretty well since I bought a weekly planner. I write all the things I have to do for the week in the planner and then at the beginning of the day, with my coffee, or the night before, sit and plan out my day. Sure, things come up and I don't always get to tick everything off the list, but I'm working on setting realistic targets for the day which I'm actually finding quite fun. Always gotta watch the perfectionistic 'all-or-nothing' attitude, though, creeping in to give me bad self-esteem.
'Oh, so you didn't do this...hmm, you may as well watch P if you're this useless'

Stuff like that is just so laughably, obviously, the addiction talking.

Anyway I may be rambling now, so I'm gonna go take a shower and may post on here later.

Peace dudes.

 

[Kraken]

Sounds like a beautiful day dude!  Now I want tacos hahaha

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

*The following post contains material that some readers may find triggering.*

In the name of transparency and being held accountable, I must admit that I did look at a P sub (a try on video) on YouTube yesterday but didn't finish it because my wife came back. It put my dopamine into a weird state and I felt kind that kind of lethargic, irritable energy for the rest of the day. I don't know what caused the urge but I was getting some mild urges at the time when I wrote on here which quickly turned into a big one. It's amazing how quickly little urges turn into big ones if you dwell on them, and I did dwell on it a bit, I must admit.

Then I slept last night and I woke up and took the truck for a service and when I came back, I watched the same video again. Then I really managed to pull myself together seeing as it was P subs that stopped me performing the other week, and I pulled the plug on it right there because I realised I was not taking responsibility. I am posting on here now as an act of being completely transparent with you guys. I do not wish to hide anything.

The 6 days before that I felt great, because I had not stirred up my dopamine with any P subs. I know I'll get through it by distracting myself with other things and by just keeping busy. I'm glad I can say this to you guys because I want to be completely clean and being open about this and exposing my short comings is the only way. I haven't always been 100% honest about little peeks here and there, but from now on I promise to be. Every thought, every peek, every fantasy, I will post about on here so as not to let it fester in my subconscious leading to relapse.

I always get to a certain point when if I don't have sex a minimum of about twice a week, I get antsy. Some would argue it's natural horniness but I'm sure it's withdrawal. I did get a hand job the other day from the wife but afterwards I also felt kind of off. It didn't feel nearly as good as sex and I felt super lethargic and odd. I was fully in the moment and it was nice, but after the O I just felt super tired and wished we'd had sex instead (but she was kind of sick so just did it for me). Is sex the only way we are supposed to O or can we receive that via other means as long as we don't fantasise about P? 

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

I just PMO'd to P subs on my TV. Not proud of myself. Would like real talk from you guys, please.

I need to be so so careful about P subs. They are almost just as bad as P.

 

[BlueHeronFan]

I just PMO'd to P subs on my TV. Not proud of myself. Would like real talk from you guys, please.

I need to be so so careful about P subs. They are almost just as bad as P.

I don't want to just pass on giving real talk, but what kind of real talk would you give yourself? Not harsh, punitive talk, but real talk. Where are you, honestly, in moving towards a life where you aren't dependent on artificial dopamine hits to get through the day?

PMO is the ugliest, most obvious symptom of a problem that runs much deeper. That means that going with PMO is a superficial success at best. We could probably all agree that p subs aren't "as bad" as P, but they are still something that keeps you stuck in a pattern of addictive behavior. It's not really about avoiding PMO: it's about not being imprisoned by addiction in any form.

When I really took recovery seriously at the start of last year, counting days was helpful for two reasons. 1, it motivated me (and I'm thinking now it was leveraging my perfectionistic tendency subconsciously, so maybe not a real benefit, but it worked); 2, it helped me see just how often I was slipping up. If you had asked me a year ago how I was doing, I would have said, "Pretty good. My addiction is pretty under control compared to what it was. I rarely slip up." When I was counting days, I realized that I was, like clockwork, binging every 20-30 days. So I wasn't straight-up PMOing, and I wasn't doing the subs+edging thing all that often, but there was a pattern. It was a predictable thing that helped me to realize that I was just as stuck as ever, just in a more subtle way. That caught my attention and helped me realize that I really needed to change at a deeper level.

I'm not sure what my point is exactly, but I guess I'll say it would be worth having some real talk with yourself (real, honest, patient, forgiving, but also rigorous talk). Where are you really on the path of recovery? Not just superficial avoidance of PMO, but deeply. Are you rejecting the dependence on addictive behaviors or are you settling into a pattern of addiction that looks less severe? Look at your patterns, chart the trendline. Decide what that means for you.

It has been so important for me to realize that this isn't about stopping one behavior. It's about changing my life with the awareness that I have a strong disposition for self-destructive behavior. Recovery has meant changing how I access the internet, but it has also involved changing how often I clean my apartment, what I eat, how I exercise, the way the space around my desk is decorated, etc. The real goal isn't to quit PMO. The real goal is to build a new, sustainable life where we've given up the need for addiction.

What are you getting from your addiction? What beliefs are fueling your continuing return to the addiction? How can you talk back to those beliefs and meet your needs in healthier, sustainable ways?

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

You're right, Blue. I used the time the site has been down to ask myself these questions. The lapsing to P subs last for a couple more days but then it fizzled out and I had lovely sex with my wife. I don't know what day I'm not because I haven't been counting but I'd say I'm 10 or 11 days in now. I simply am not engaging in the type of behaviour that is conducive to relapse which is hanging out on my devices and 'accidentally' slipping into the abyss.

Other changes: Yesterday I started a new fitness programme at a place that does HIIT circuit training (High Intensity Interval Training). It's exactly what I was looking for because I get to work out in a group and it also uses weights, so it's basically good for you all round. I was going to go this morning but didn't because I cycle there and my bike wasn't working, plus my whole body hurts from yesterday's (first) workout, but I will go again tomorrow.

Hope you're all doing well. Trying to reduce my screen time at the moment, so sorry if you don't hear from me on your journals for a little bit.

 

[BlueHeronFan]

Any positive change is a step in the right direction, and they all add up over time. Keep being rigorously honest with yourself and keep pressing forward!

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

Hey guys,

So I made it 14 days before I peeked. In that time, I had some very good feelings about myself and my relationship, and also noticed a lot of positive changes in my sexual drive. I observed my sexual preferences returning to normal - and absolutely zero cravings for P. I have also been successfully reducing my screen time and only using my devices for emails and other things work-related. Urges arose but for the most part, I was easily able to curb my attention. During this streak, I noticed that whenever I get an urge, as an automatic response, my body goes into fight or flight mode. The urge itself invokes fear in me and that itself spurs the addiction. If I watch that feeling, it always subsides.

All positive changes.

I did slip up yesterday by peeking which led to PMO today. I don't have an excuse, other than my addicted mind rationalising peeking again. I slept terribly last night because the puppy kept me up. However, after my PMO this morning, instead of moping and binging, I went to my fitness class and now I feel more balanced and ready to tackle the day. I honestly feel like I'm building positive new habits. I have cleaned up my diet, am exercising again with weights and cardio, and I am getting up earlier and not 'hanging out' on the internet (apart from yesterday and this morning). As some of you have said before with your words of encouragement, it takes time to build new habits, and I'm well on my way. Of course I'm a little disappointed in myself for this lapse, but I would prefer not to dwell, and instead focus on the now, in which I am clean.

These past two weeks have been great erection-wise and have led to many very lovely connecting love-making sessions with my wife. I want to keep it this way.

Blue, you've said many times that 'tomorrow is a new day'. This is true. But now is also a new now. Today there needn't be any binging or feeling sorry for myself. I am going to make myself a healthy meal, take a shower, and get on with my day.

This has been two weeks or consciously replacing old negative habits that lead to P with positive new habits that take away the need for P. I don't know what exactly caused this lapse but I'm happy to write about it on here and be held accountable. Feel free to respond in whatever way you see fit (you don't have to be nice). I don't have an excuse. I had a weak moment and I relapsed, but I still feel like I'm on my way towards a clean lifestyle. I think there was an element of mindless complacency which led to the initial peeking.

My next goal is 30 days. I can't remember the last time I did 30 days, but the past 14 days weren't so bad and I felt so much more clear-headed and calm apart from a few urges (mainly in the first week) which were watched and which subsided. So, my next goal is to make it till 1st April. After 30 days of building these new habits, I feel I will likely be in a place where I am much ever more easily able to curb urges.

I have a question for you guys on long streaks: At what point in your streak did you notice a marked difference in your ability to allow urges to pass?

 

[BlueHeronFan]

Progress isn't linear, and mistakes happen. Maybe I'm about to take it easier on you than before because I ran myself into a wall this weekend (so I need some easy treatment, lol), but:

From what I can see, you're putting in a better foundation. Instead of just trying to do business as usual minus PMO, you're changing things for the better and displacing the addiction from your life. You're building healthy habits that will serve you well and not just trying to willpower your way out of bad ones.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that this slip seems like it's happening in a different context from the last few that we've talked about. It's an old habit reasserting itself while you're getting the hang of new better habits, not an old habit sticking around while you wish it would go away.

Tomorrow is a new day, but you're exactly right: each moment is a new now. We can turn things around whenever we decide to. There's no law saying we have to wait until tomorrow to make positive changes, lol. It sounds like you're making some real progress and working toward a good goal!

And I'm not trying to dodge your question, but I also can't remember. I feel like getting better at letting urges pass came with practice more than with time. If you're lucky enough to go a long time without urges, your streak is getting longer, but you're not really improving, I guess. Time is important, but I don't know if it's the only ingredient or even the most important one...just trying to go back in time and think of what actually helped me...I'll let you know if I remember.

 

[Non-Dual Adventurer]

Been away for a while. Thought this forum wasn?t really working... still don?t know if it is... relapsed last week on 1st and googled a therapist who deals especially with P addiction. He?s been a P addict himself. Couldn?t afford the treatment. Haven?t even asked my insurance company yet because I sort of know they won?t cover it, but postponing making that call for a whole week was a silly idea. Can?t afford the treatment without insurance.


Just PMO?d today. Didn?t sleep.

Wife is very dissatisfied sexually at the moment.

I feel lost and broken and don?t know what to do. I literally don?t think I can break it if this cycle, God knows it feels like I?ve tried everything.

 

[BlueHeronFan]

Hey, addiction is difficult at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. Before you give yourself too hard of a time for not being able to break the cycle, recognize that, even if things are going pretty well for you, life is just harder now in a sort of generalized way.

I fell into a binge last week. Later that week, I was talking to a church leader and telling him what had happened and asking for him to check in on me from time to time since I'm on my own with too much free time, etc. I was really expecting him to take me to task. But, instead, he said two things, "Be intentional," and "You're doing awesome." I think maybe he recognized what I couldn't: that these are not normal circumstances, and they don't necessarily reflect the true state of our recovery. As for being intentional, I'm working on being much more deliberate about how I spend my time and what I feed my mind and soul with.

Of course you can break the cycle. We have to believe that we can break it. Otherwise, we might as well give up and let addiction ruin everything. Change is possible. If it is slow, inconsistent, frustrating. We can leave this behind. We can find healing.

It's not a therapist, but I've started a course on Insight Timer called "Recovery: Principles for a Purposeful Life." I'm only a few days into it, but it has given me some good insights and has helped me put my head into recovery mode each morning.

Don't give up on things, man. Better days are no doubt ahead. Let's make sure we're ready for them!

 

[kadeshzelbriel]

How you doin