challenged
Active Member
nD86 said:
I don't think this is a fair or objective characterization of most 12-step recovery programs, to say the least. It sort of reminds me of that Shakespeare quote: "There are more things in heaven and earth . . . ."
Your ideas on sex addicts anonymous?
- Thread starter Osa
- Start date
I don't think this is a fair or objective characterization of most 12-step recovery programs, to say the least. It sort of reminds me of that Shakespeare quote: "There are more things in heaven and earth . . . ."
A close friend of mine had similar concerns on admitting powerlessness to addiction. He said it seems self-defeating. In my addiction I might have agreed, but in recovery I see it as humility. I will continue to remind myself daily that I am, alone, powerless to my addiction. The day I stop going to meetings is the day I'm in a box underground (or they've discovered a cure for addiction). I will keep going to meetings to be there for other addicts because other addicts were there for me.
H
HumbleRich
Guest
I think that you are taking the 1st step too literally, Osa.
The 1st step is to accept that you are powerless to your addiction, right now, at this moment, considering your current habits and reactive nature.
This is something that stopped me from going to a 12 step program, and still disuades me, but I have been starting to consider the 1st step from a more philosophical point of view.
The point of the 12 steps seems to be to rebuild your life around solid, core values that replace your need to use whatever substance you are addicted to.
There is no cure. You have to continue the new habits and routines in order to maintain sobriety.
In this context, the 1st step makes slightly more sense. At this moment, you are powerless over your addiction because you do not have the skills and understanding needed to face it head on.
You first need to be humble and accept this before you can begin to learn the skills to face addiction.
The 1st step is to accept that you are powerless to your addiction, right now, at this moment, considering your current habits and reactive nature.
This is something that stopped me from going to a 12 step program, and still disuades me, but I have been starting to consider the 1st step from a more philosophical point of view.
The point of the 12 steps seems to be to rebuild your life around solid, core values that replace your need to use whatever substance you are addicted to.
There is no cure. You have to continue the new habits and routines in order to maintain sobriety.
In this context, the 1st step makes slightly more sense. At this moment, you are powerless over your addiction because you do not have the skills and understanding needed to face it head on.
You first need to be humble and accept this before you can begin to learn the skills to face addiction.
nD86
Member
@HumbleRich: I see how it could be valuable in the early stages, yet an obstacle in the later stages. It seems very valuable and effective early on when you are indeed powerless in the face of your habits and reactive nature, but if the end goal is to regain your power, any programme that has as one of its statements that you are powerless will be counterproductive. I used the term "scaffolding" in my earlier post. I think it still applies. I think we are mostly in agreement, but we differ on the question of a cure. I do believe there is a cure; not medication or chat groups with like-minded people, but inner growth. Medication and chat groups can be temporary tools to create the necessary balance to start taking those real steps toward a cure - just like you say. It's a process, and it is important to remember where you're coming from and be appreciative of the steps that you have taken, but to consider yourself an "addict" for the rest of your life will seriously impair you from moving forward. I for one do not accept that an "addict" is my true nature.
@Mbg: If your motivation to go to meetings is to be there for recovering addicts, then clearly that is a noble pursuit. But is it entirely necessary for you to still consider yourself an "addict" to fulfill this function? Do you believe you will ever have deserved the right to call yourself an "ex-addict?"
@Challenged: I admit, I am biased against organised religion; and being raised a critical thinking atheist in a secular Western European country (the Netherlands), I am especially against the main tenets of Christian doctrine - in particular, its notion of "original sin," which the twelve step programme is, in my opinion, too strongly founded on to be of real, broad value to humanity as a species in its struggle against the tentacles of addiction. It makes sense that many Americans, living in a country where Christianity still has such a strong foothold, fall back upon their core cultural and religious values in their struggle against addiction, but the beliefs held by the twelve step programme are too culturally and religiously specific to be of much value to the rest of the (non-Christian) world. Having said that, I am not an a-religious person, as the image in my avatar hopefully suggests. I too believe "there are more things between heaven and earth," but I also believe keeping an open mind, and pursuing and exploring one's own path instead of signing up to predetermined ideas is the more wholesome spiritual attitude.
@Mbg: If your motivation to go to meetings is to be there for recovering addicts, then clearly that is a noble pursuit. But is it entirely necessary for you to still consider yourself an "addict" to fulfill this function? Do you believe you will ever have deserved the right to call yourself an "ex-addict?"
@Challenged: I admit, I am biased against organised religion; and being raised a critical thinking atheist in a secular Western European country (the Netherlands), I am especially against the main tenets of Christian doctrine - in particular, its notion of "original sin," which the twelve step programme is, in my opinion, too strongly founded on to be of real, broad value to humanity as a species in its struggle against the tentacles of addiction. It makes sense that many Americans, living in a country where Christianity still has such a strong foothold, fall back upon their core cultural and religious values in their struggle against addiction, but the beliefs held by the twelve step programme are too culturally and religiously specific to be of much value to the rest of the (non-Christian) world. Having said that, I am not an a-religious person, as the image in my avatar hopefully suggests. I too believe "there are more things between heaven and earth," but I also believe keeping an open mind, and pursuing and exploring one's own path instead of signing up to predetermined ideas is the more wholesome spiritual attitude.
Sure I'll be an ex addict one day.... When I'm dead! Unless science discovers a cure, not likely in my lifetime. I've never met an alcoholic that can one day decide to have a drink again without going back into addiction. The day one can see that the disease of addiction will not just go away is the day that person can begin learning how to live with it. I too am an atheist and yet I see no dogmatism is admitting that this addiction is more powerful than me..
It doesn't really sound like you can fully conform to the step program because of hold ups over a couple of the steps. I'm sure you are already well aware, but I want to take a moment to iterate this: there's no such thing as one size fits all. These programs may be very valuable tools for some people. Be it because they don't get too hung up on the details they may or may not agree with, or because they can easily and willing fully embrace each concept along the way. You've asked a question and receive a whole lot of feed back. In the end, did it persuade you? It doesn't really seem like it. Either way, if you choose to start a program or not, I hope you are able to achieve your goal.
On a side note, have you ever thought about one on one counseling? I don't mean finding a person who specialized in sex (related) addictions. I mean just simply counseling to talk about things that are on your mind. In a recent session with my own counselor my husband joined me and we talked to him about porn addiction. One of the things that really stood out to me that day is that he said, "regardless of what the addiction is, addiction almost always stems from a person trying to seek out some form on control in one aspect of their life because they lack that control somewhere else. It's never a conscious thing, but I often find that when a person who is struggling with addiction focuses on other aspects of their life (their life as a whole perhaps) they tend to no longer feel urges toward that addiction."
From so many of the things I've read so far about people trying to recover from porn addiction, I gather that depression and withdrawal are often common occurrences. If your insurance covers it or you are willing to spend the money, perhaps seeking counseling is a good alternative to a recovery group. You could focus on yourself and not have to worry about feeling like you are expected to conform.
On a side note, have you ever thought about one on one counseling? I don't mean finding a person who specialized in sex (related) addictions. I mean just simply counseling to talk about things that are on your mind. In a recent session with my own counselor my husband joined me and we talked to him about porn addiction. One of the things that really stood out to me that day is that he said, "regardless of what the addiction is, addiction almost always stems from a person trying to seek out some form on control in one aspect of their life because they lack that control somewhere else. It's never a conscious thing, but I often find that when a person who is struggling with addiction focuses on other aspects of their life (their life as a whole perhaps) they tend to no longer feel urges toward that addiction."
From so many of the things I've read so far about people trying to recover from porn addiction, I gather that depression and withdrawal are often common occurrences. If your insurance covers it or you are willing to spend the money, perhaps seeking counseling is a good alternative to a recovery group. You could focus on yourself and not have to worry about feeling like you are expected to conform.