MO does lead to PMO

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gtl923

Active Member
It's been awhile since I've been on here and a lot has happened. I relapsed for the first time after about 6 weeks no PMO. At first I just MO'd one night and afterwards I felt alright and didn't think it would be a big deal. Then a week later I MO'd again. Within a couple of days I was back into PMO and it took me about 2 weeks before I was able to bring myself back. I'm now a week and a half in. Should be getting close to 90 days though...

Moral of the story; MO might seem harmless even if you aren't even thinking about P when you do it but it will lead you right back to old habits. The hardest part for me is not thinking about women I know and am attracted to when I am trying to go to sleep or when I first wake up. In fact, I think my first MO relapse happened when I woke up and had a strong urge and was feeling too foggy to fight it.
 
J

JG2690

Guest
completely agree with you bro!
are you going the whole 3 months without sex as well?
 
Fappy

Fappy

Respected Member
Ahhhhhh the old chaser effect. You get off over that feeling and it keeps coming back to kick you in the rattlers. I used to get that. I would have sex with my wife and then the next morning id still be chasing that feeling. It took a lot of skill to avoid looking at porn at those times.
Just recognize it for what it is and ignore it.
 
G

gtl923

Active Member
JG2690 said:
completely agree with you bro!
are you going the whole 3 months without sex as well?
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The thing is I have been hanging out with this really awesome woman and I'm pretty convinced she is interested in me. The thing is she is leaving at the end of next month to move to England so if something is going to happen it's got to happen fairly soon. So I'm just going to go with the flow and see where we end up. But if we do have sex I will just have to be prepared for the chaser as Fappy noted. Now that I've experienced it with MO I will be better prepared when I do eventually get down and dirty. Every failure is a learning experience so I will be stronger next time.
 
J

JG2690

Guest
That is true bro yea just go with the flow, I personally wouldn't miss the opportunity. Also I've read that the chaser effect only lasts like 3 days or so after that you should be just fine.
 
K

Khamos

Member
yep it has lead me back completly to porn.

except, oh wait no it hasnt.

The risk is there of ocurse, as is the risk of turing MO into a habit in leiu of a relationship. But to make a blanket statement like that is erroneous.
 
Chaos Mind

Chaos Mind

Active Member
I say: it depends on (1) the person (i.e. his background and predisposition) and (2) the way you masturbate. If you MO while having porn fantasies then how should your mind tell if the images are seen or made up? The effect is nearly the same and that's the problem. On the other hand, touching yourself and feeling what it means to love yourself can in fact help you recover. I MO like once every week and I am 100+ days into no PMO. Not a single relapse. MO and PMO for me have become two very different things, BUT that only works because I made it two separate procedures. I don't follow the sensitive pathways, I don't "give in". I do it when I feel love instead of lust.

Many people have reported that MO lead them back to PMO, so I am fine with saying "you shouldn't do it - there is a serious risk of destryoing all your current success!". But I disagree with the statement "MO leads to PMO".
 
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Khamos

Member
I agree about not MO'ing to fantasies as that is a type of porn. WHen ever the orgasm happens in your mind then its pmo. I reserve my MO to whenever im in the sme state where I would normally relapse, i use it as a safety net, and yes it does take awhile to get used to because its not in your mind

an yes if you do find it boosts your porn cravings then try not to use it for awhile.
 
Pr3c1se

Pr3c1se

Well-Known Member
Yep!  I stayed away from MO as well during my reboot, best decision I ever made.

Even now that I consider myself rebooted, I still don't masturbate often.  Perhaps once a month max!  MO is a complete waste of time.  I have a girlfriend now and I'd much rather take it all out on her :)
 
K

Khamos

Member
you know Pr3c1se, i'm sure your not trying to be offensive and you mean well. BUt what would you have me do while I am trying to reboot and find myself at a moment where i feel I might suddenly break? should I just go ahead and relapse? is that better than MO'ing somehow?

making BLANKET STATEMENTS like "MO is a complete waste of time" is what I have a problem with.
 
Pr3c1se

Pr3c1se

Well-Known Member
It's not a blanket statement. I believe it to be true.  I think Masturbation keeps you close to porn at all times.  Many people here associate porn with masturbation, not many people just watch porn and don't masturbate during it.  Therefore masturbating is associated to porn use.  I started my reboot thinking masturbation was OK.  As I progressed through my reboot I decided MO was bad and I stopped it all.  I am only giving my personal advice.  If you disagree with masturbation being a waste of time, then you're entitled to your opinion.  If you are saying you would relapse if you don't MO, well that's an issue.  You need to find other forms of release other than masturbation.  This is all about self control and controlling your urges instead of allowing them to control you.  I agree MO is certainly better than PMO, but what I'm saying is a step further than that... Find something completely different that will satisfy you, such as reading a good book, or working out... Masturbation is completely a waste of time.  sorry, but I feel it is.
 
K

Khamos

Member
I am saying that in the past whenver I have had a moment of strong urge and have tried to control it then i have usually ended up just pmo'ing, so far i'm two weeks in from any pmo and its helped me to keep from having any fantasy based pmo(my current biggest achilles heel)
And TBH while you dont needto agree with me, saying "masturbation is a complete waste of time" in such a dismissive manner is quite personally offensive and insulting
 
Pr3c1se

Pr3c1se

Well-Known Member
You cannot "control" these urges by Masturbating.  That is playing with fire.  I'd advise you to stop all forms of orgasming for a little while. Take a break from all types of MO/PMO anything like that.  I am not trying to be dismissive in regards to masturbation.  I am being honest when I say I feel it's a complete waste of time.  Nothing productive comes from masturbation, it doesn't help you achieve goals, it doesn't help you get women, it doesn't help you become a better person. 

You say it helps you stay away from PMO.  There are OTHER ways to stay away from PMO.  I did not go straight to masturbation in order to stop PMO and trust me I got those strong urges as well.  I took up reading, I stayed out of the house as much as possible, I worked out, I got involved with family/friends more.  These options are healthier ways to avoid PMO than masturbation is. 

I now only masturbate once a month max, sometimes less.  Masturbation is a submissive/passive form of release.  Active forms of release are much better/healthier for you.  (reading/gym/running/studying/etc)
 
G

gtl923

Active Member
@Chaos Mind: You make some good points and I realize now that saying "MO leads to PMO" is not entirely correct. I think most people have made a strong association between masturbation and porn but if you are able to remove that connection MO could be something completely different. I'm curious though if you MO'd throughout your reboot or if you waited for a certain period of time (ie. "hard-mode") before starting MO?

@Khamos: I can see where you're coming from. Ultimately our goal here is to stop watching any form of porn whatsoever and we must use all the techniques we have at our disposal in order to do so. However, our addiction is not actually to porn; it is to dopamine which we get in large doses by watching porn. We also get dopamine from masturbation and it is my fear that you may be using MO to release dopamine in an attempt to stem the withdrawal symptoms you feel from not watching porn, especially since it is so early in your reboot. For me personally, I know MO will inevitably lead me back to porn eventually. I may be able to MO without triggering thoughts of porn after I have successfully rebooted, however by then my hope is that I will have more success with real women and won't need MO regardless. Now everyone is different and perhaps you are like Chaos Mind and can MO without triggering cravings for porn. I would just urge you to take some time to think deeply about if this really is the case, what benefits and consequences MO has in your life, and other productive ways you can find release.

@all my brothers and sisters: Stay Strong!
 
Chaos Mind

Chaos Mind

Active Member
@Chaos Mind: You make some good points and I realize now that saying "MO leads to PMO" is not entirely correct. I think most people have made a strong association between masturbation and porn but if you are able to remove that connection MO could be something completely different. I'm curious though if you MO'd throughout your reboot or if you waited for a certain period of time (ie. "hard-mode") before starting MO?

Honestly, I never really was in hard mode. I actually don't like to admit that because I don't want to make people think hard mode was an overestimated thing. It's definitively not. I've heard of many cases were this was the only solution that worked. But in many ways, my recover is different to what I read here. I think the key is that I quit before porn could actually destroy me. I had some minor problems of PIED, but I did not suffer as bad as many others here do. Still I consider myself an addict because I too was going through hell when trying to quit for good. I think after I made the decision to stop I didn't masturbate for a month or so. Not because I refused to, but because I somehow didn't find it appealing to. I had no visual stimulation so it just didn't sound so fun. Then the fantasies began and I felt like MO'ing, but as soon as I touched myself I could feel the desire floating all through my body and I realized I musn't give in to these thoughts. So I read about masturbating to pure fantasies and wondered if it was possible. And, what can I say...it's like meditation. It is very hard for your mind not to drift off. And it's hard to draw a line. For example: when I see a hot girl on the street I may not think about her when masturbating. Because the fantasie would be like: she stops by, says something filthy and we get it on. Which is far away from reality. But I actually thought about my girlfriend and how gentle she always is and was. Or I just touch myself and feel my nerves tingling. I climaxed several time to no fantasy at all...just the feeling of my own touch. As soon as tainted fantasies pop in, I stop immediately.
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