Gay guy reboot

lyon03

Respected Member
Hey brother. I hope you're well and look forward to your update. Phase2 I really liked what you shared above: "You are not attacking their choices, but making a decision for yourself. Still, I think a lot of my friends do have a porn problem." You've hit the nail on the head...and it doesn't just apply to porn addiction. I think we have a general screen addiction. You reminded me of a realization I had last Friday night. I was out for drinks with a friend at a local gay bar. Two things struck me that evening: first, the fact that I wasn't drinking (virgin Bloody Marys) was highly unsettling for everyone ("Have a drink for God's sake!"); and second, I didn't once go on my cellphone yet everyone in the bar was constantly checking their phones for texts and sex app messages. Free of such distractions, I was having the most incredible conversation with a woman at the bar. There were actually four of us but my friend and her (male) friend kept pulling out their cellphones - roughly every 5-10 minutes I reckon - to check Grindr, Scruff or other sex apps. I realized this was me not too long ago. I also realized that every time someone checked their phone looking for sex, they were getting a dopamine hit. We left the bar and headed out for dinner. There were six of us in total. Two of the men at dinner were constantly on their phones trying to arrange for hook ups. I thought it was incredibly rude but checked myself because I realized this was me not too long ago. Why am I writing this? Phase2 makes a very good point that the gay community is now infected with a generalized form of screen/porn addiction. It is now socially acceptable to casually scroll through fleshy photos of half-naked men WHILE IN A BAR OR RESTAURANT. Calling this porn addiction is perhaps going to far just like calling everyone getting drunk at a bar an alcoholic. We all suffer our addictions to different degrees I guess. End of rant! Be well everyone. PORN IS NOT AN OPTION.     
 

now-man

Member
Plugging along in my reboot.

I?m still reading ?Cruise Control? by Robert Weiss, an in-depth look at sex addiction for gay men. I'm about 2/3 of the way through, getting a lot out of it. After going back and forth in the beginning, at this point it feels pretty clear to me that I am not actually a 'sex addict.' I can certainly relate to some of it, but I don't think my behaviors fit the out-of-control definition as described in the book.

My partner has 22 years of sobriety in AA twelve step recovery, so I've learned something about the difference between an alcoholic and non-alcoholic. I enjoy drinking to a point, but the more I drink, the less I like it. So it's something I enjoy in moderation. I think sex is an area where I can go a little further than 'moderation,' but it doesn't lead me to out-of-control. He explains in the book that sex addicts deny there's anything wrong, so I keep that in mind as I examine my experience. But at this point in the book he has made several clear distinctions between how a sex addict and non sex addict respond to the same situation, and it seems pretty clear to me.

I suppose there's some grey area between classic dysfunctional addiction (as described in Cruise Control) and the kind of porn related brain re-wiring that is described YBOP. I think I'm not addicted to porn but, through PMO, conditioned my wiring to the urge towards arousal.

I?m approaching 60 days in my reboot. It feels quiet. I still don?t think I?ve flatlined the way I?ve heard it described. I don?t have much libido - I have yet to feel any impulse to want to masturbate. But I do get morning wood. I do feel attracted and aroused at times, though not to the point of erection. My equipment often actually feels bigger and fuller, rather than shrunk. But I suppose there are a lot of varieties of flatlines, and maybe this is mine.

As for withdrawal, I think I?ve had some symptoms, like sudden intense irritability. I?ve also had some very long nights of sleep, like 11 to 12 hours, which feels like healing going on.
 

lyon03

Respected Member
Hey brother. Thanks for sharing. Regardless of whether or not you're a porn or sex addict, or maybe even both, the most important thing is that you're staying proactive during reboot. Our addiction is to dopamine. Some get the hit via porn, others through Grindr, and some of us have a general sex addiction to get our dopamine highs. But it's all the same. Addiction is wanting to do something or ingest something that will never be enough. Learn everything you can about porn addiction, sex addiction, or any other problems that may be keeping you from having a kick *ss life. Just keep learning/fighting/going. With regards to flatline/withdrawal, I believe you're going through the classic symptoms: low libido and fatigue. If your junk is looking better and you're experiencing morning wood, bravo! These are usually signs you're coming out of flatline. If you have the same experience as me, you'll be ready to tear off your husband's clothes in the coming weeks. Be ready! Be well my friend. PORN IS NOT AN OPTION.
 

now-man

Member
Happy New Year gentlemen!

It's been an amazing week and a half since I last posted - an intense travel schedule combined with the spending the holiday with my partner. We had four days together. On Christmas morning he asked me about my reboot, and wanted to talk about where we are with our agreements around sex outside the relationship. It was a good conversation. Then we had his family over for the day.

Later that night when we were alone I noticed it was bringing up a lot of emotion in me. We sat and talked and tears welled up in me, and I shared my fears about not knowing where this is all heading for me - I don't know if sex is going to work well for me in or outside of our relationship. He was loving and understanding and we ended up hugging and I started feeling intimate. (Possible trigger material): We took a shower together and he got me hard. We moved to the bedroom and went for it. It's been quite awhile (months) since we'd had sex, and a couple months since I started my reboot and had any sexual activity. So it all felt a little wonky in my head. After the initial erect response, my boner didn't hold up. I thought about just stopping, but he seemed really turned on, and the intimate connection felt good, so I continued and we both O'd, though I was only partially erect. (end)

The next morning he asked how I was doing, and again emotion welled up and I shared that, while there were wonderful parts of our intimacy, I felt sad about my equipment's performance. He made a valiant effort to assuage my feelings, it was really endearing. For me it was very helpful just to express my feelings.

We were both leaving town that afternoon and laid down for a short nap together, after a hectic couple days of holiday activity.  Possible trigger material): I was nestling in hoping to catch a little sleep when he spooned me and had a raging boner (no ED issues on his end!). Then I got hard and stayed pretty hard and we had quite a fun romp. To O and beyond. (end) Afterward he was very cute and sweet with his enthusiasm for my 'success,' clearly caring and hoping I was feeling it. I did feel a sense of success, in addition to gratitude for his love, for the intimacy and the fun.

I don't at all feel that my reboot is complete. In fact I had wondered whether it would be better to avoid intimacy with him until I did. But I'm very glad all that happened. It felt like an early taste of 'rewiring.' And through several phone conversations we've had since then, when he has again brought the subject up and asked how I'm doing, I'm touched by his love and concern. And his willingness to let me share my insecurity and be there for me.

I waited to see if I were going to experience the 'chaser' effect, and I did notice it. It wasn't overpowering, but for the next few days there was a recurring impulse, not to PMO, but to hookup. I happened to be in two different situations where a familiar hookup was readily available. I watched my mind considering it, and then thought "Okay, let's really look at this. Is this going to move my reboot forward? No." End of consideration, end of impulses. One thing I liked about the impulse, though, was that it felt more like actual 'horniness' instead of the urge to 'get off.'

In the last ten days I also noticed another possible withdrawal symptom for a few nights, this time a bit of insomnia, rare for me.

I finished reading "Cruise Control," (such a wealth of information), and started reading the "YBOP" book again. Feels helpful to repeat it.

I've been keeping up on a lot of the posts in here. Sometimes I wonder if I'm in the wrong place. It seems like a lot of the guys are coming from a religious/morality perspective, or one in which the only viable option for sexuality is intimacy within committed monogamy. However, one thing I definitely appreciate about this forum is the respectful and supportive way everyone shares. Our culture is so polarized these days. The way it's presented in the media, people only want to hear what they agree with, and they demonize those who disagree. So I really like seeing the interaction here between men who may have quite different values, beliefs and lifestyles, supporting each other with respect and being genuine.

As I read numerous posts that seem to steer in the direction of 'monogamy and intimacy as the only healthy option,' I feel conflicted. I have considered that it might end up being the right option for me, and I'm open to that. I had five years of monogamy (on my part) earlier in my relationship, and it worked very well for me. But I'm not intending or planning that outcome. My relationship isn't set up that way. It's possible recreational sex can be a healthy option for some men. It seems to be the case for my partner. So, we'll see...

Those are my thoughts on this beautiful NY Eve. Off to enjoy time with a dear friend. Wishing you all well, and grateful for your presence and support.
 

lyon03

Respected Member
Happy New Year! Thanks for the update my friend. I'm so happy that you and your partner had such wonderful and intimate moments together. That's what reboot is all about. In reply:

"I've been keeping up on a lot of the posts in here. Sometimes I wonder if I'm in the wrong place. It seems like a lot of the guys are coming from a religious/morality perspective, or one in which the only viable option for sexuality is intimacy within committed monogamy."

Whether you reboot with a higher power, a loving partner, or in a 'monogamish' relationship (thanks to Dan Savage for creating that term), I've learned that reboot and perhaps happiness are highly personal. I enjoyed what you wrote about this being an open, honest and respectful environment. I must admit that I could be rather dogmatic and dismissive at times - wrongly thinking that my way of rebooting was the only way. Looking back, this was wrong. So what's my point?

I think it's a sign of intelligence that you're asking such questions. I also think that you should approach your reboot in a way that works for you and your partner. I'd recommend you start by defining what addiction means for you. You can then determine whether the occasional sexcapade is harmless or harmful to you and your long-term relationship. Personally I think this is where I'm headed. In a loving relationship with a wonderful man, but 'monogamish' enough so that I can enjoy the odd romp from time to time. However, I have to be mindful to avoid falling in to my old addictive habits of using screens, seeking, and searching like I did in the past. So my point is that you're not alone my friend.

As always, it's a pleasure to read your well-written and engaging posts. I look forward to following your journey. Be well. PORN IS NOT AN OPTION.
 

Phase2

Well-Known Member
Great post, Now-Man. Congratulations on making it to a point where you can start to reap some of the benefits of this journey. I agree that you are not done yet--but its clear you have a great perspective and understanding of the complexities of all this. And that includes relationships, monogamy and non-monogamy. Your approach is thoughtful and sincere. So keep going. Our challenges will continue, but it's great to see you are making progress. Happy New Year!
 

now-man

Member
Thank you Lyon and Phase2, it's really helpful to hear what you shared. I had felt at times like I was tying myself in knots if I had to view this whole reboot through a single lens. Thank you for letting me know I'm not alone. I like what you said about being mindful, sounds like the right approach for me.  :)
 

lyon03

Respected Member
My pleasure. As Leon has often shared, we need to define 'addiction' and 'recovery' ourselves. But we also have to be mindful that our basic addiction is to dopamine and we porn addicts get our dopamine hits from artificial sexual stimulation like screens. I'm actually quite happy to read about your open relationship. This is a debate we as a society need to have. (I am a huge fan of Dan Savage's column in "The Stranger" and have recently listened to his latest audiobook.) My own experience seems to gel with Dan's basic premise that human beings aren't naturally monogamous. Given the high divorce rate and amount of cheating, we as a society need to address a basic truth that something is wrong with the current paradigm. 

And I think the gay community is redefining relationships as we gay men tend to be more open (if not agressive) about our sexuality. While married, I 'cheated' on my wife every day by watching pornography. I was in fact having sex with a screen because my own personal sex life was so unsatisfying. Porn is often a gateway to hookups via Craigslist, sex apps (like Gridr), prostitutes etc. I like Savage's term 'monogamish' which means mostly monogamous, but in a relationship that is open and honest enough to allow for some extra-marital fun. If this works for you and your partner, great. This is what works for me but I've realized that it cannot be at the expense of my primary relationship.

But enough of my rant...how is your reboot going my friend? I look forward to your next update. Happy New Year to you and your husband.     
 

now-man

Member
Hello gents,
Great stuff Lyon, thanks for the insights. I'm still plugging along, my 90 days is within sight. Not that reaching that point will necessarily change anything, but I can certainly say that it's been worthwhile so far.

In the last week I've noticed signs I may be coming out of my version of flatline - I've felt a bit horny, noticed some smells that turned me on; found myself thinking about hookup options; had really solid, long lasting morning wood almost every day; got flirted with by a very hot guy, and watched my arousal meter hit the red zone.

I'm not doing anything about any of it. Just watching. I considered that I could M with my morning wood, first time I've had that impulse. But it didn't feel 'necessary.' I've been reading posts and YBOP, and I just don't trust that the dopamine circuits are rebooted. I guess my standard for knowing when it's time to 'do something' with my wiener is this: when I don't have to wonder, or decide, or think about it; when I am naturally led to it. I can wait for that. And I think I know the difference between being naturally led to it and feeling the craving for a dopamine hit. The first is easy, fun and light, the second is stressful.

I see how fortunate I am to have my partner. I'm going to see him again in a few days. It will be a brief visit, so don't know if we'll have the opportunity for nookie, but either way is good. I think that if and when I am naturally led to having sex, I want to do it with my partner a fair bit before I do it with someone else. I'm feeling as close to him as ever. Sometimes in our phone conversations I find myself getting chubby down there. Not full on hard, but it feels good.

After coming this far, I want to get as much advantage out of this reboot as I can, without being over zealous about it. I want long lasting effects, not an overnight change. I read an interesting thread earlier today, started by Stevew, titled: The longer you have an addiction the harder it is to quit... where a couple guys talk about the thrill of starting a reboot, making positive changes, then the challenge when the novelty wears off.

I noticed the benefits of being in flatline, where I wasn't at all thinking about M'ing, hooking up, etc. In the last week, when those things came to mind again, I almost felt a sense of disappointment. Like: is that all there is? Those things are so familiar. So, I'm leaving it alone. It's gonna have to come and find me. It's gonna have to draw me in with convincing genuineness and depth. I'm not budging that easily. :)
 

lyon03

Respected Member
Great post my friend. I see you're rediscovering natural sexuality and natural attraction. I'm not at all surprised someone flirted with you because when you radiate sexuality, people take notice. How wonderful that your partner's voice is also causing a stir. There is nothing more fulfilling than having someone desire you, or perhaps being desired. I liked what you posted about the 'novelty' of recovery wearing off. I think you're on the right path for more than just a porn reboot. Your insights suggest a deeper insight that this is truly a life reboot. Keep posting as I'm learning a lot from your journey. Be well. PORN IS NOT AN OPTION. 
 

hans32

Member
I am very grounded and inspired reading your posts.  Keep up the good workmy pink army brother!
 

bob

Respected Member
now-man said:
It seems like a lot of the guys are coming from a religious/morality perspective, or one in which the only viable option for sexuality is intimacy within committed monogamy.

I just wanted to say that I appreciate your thoughts on the religious/morality perspective.
 

Phase2

Well-Known Member
now-man said:
I guess my standard for knowing when it's time to 'do something' with my wiener is this: when I don't have to wonder, or decide, or think about it; when I am naturally led to it. I can wait for that. And I think I know the difference between being naturally led to it and feeling the craving for a dopamine hit. The first is easy, fun and light, the second is stressful.

I like this line. It took me a loooong time to figure this out so I wanted to highlight it again for anyone else looking around. There have been many times since my reboot that I have forced the issue of having sex only because I was able to get it at that time. (If it's not readily available, you have to take it when it comes). Which means that there were times when I had sex when I was probably not truly 'horny'. With the help of a small dose of Cialis (despite the side dish of anxiety), I've been able to do pretty well since my reboot--which is great. However, I feel best on those other occasions when sex is at hand and I'm not thinking about it at all. My body is simply ready, horny, not anxious at all--just eager to go. These are the times when I don't think Id need Cialis at all. And if it weren't for my reboot and abstaining from MO, I doubt I'd have ever had these feeling again. So, again, I'm thankful to YBOP for helping me get to the point where I can experience natural, eager horniness again. My goal is to find a partner with whom I can exercise these urges with when he and I are both ready--and not have to rely on random hookups or good timing to have a sexual encounter.

Anyway, I encourage all the men out there to concentrate on that subtle difference. Truly Horny vs. Bored/Anxious/Forced Horny.

Cheers!
 

now-man

Member
Greetings gentlemen,

Things are going well. I had a short visit with my partner, not expecting to have a chance for physical play. Surprise! We were going to head out for lunch but didn't make it out the door before our clothes were off. My equipment responded with initial robustness, then flagged a bit, then kinda met me halfway. This time I didn't mind. I appreciate whatever process it's going through, and it can take whatever time it takes. More importantly, I feel closer to my partner, and more turned on by him. That was a big bonus. I realized I had kind of numbed myself with porn viewing (and seeking hookups) to the point where I wasn't as turned on with my partner. It was a very good feeling to be really attracted and turned on with him.

I had to leave after the short visit, but then changed some plans to travel back and spend a couple more days with him. It just felt like we need more time together, and it's worth my making the effort.

We had another spontaneous session. It started out just playfully when he was headed out for an errand, but we were both getting more and more turned on. I said "you better get out of here" and before you know it, clothes were off and we were going for it. My member held up a bit better than the previous time, not 100%, but progress. But the feeling of connection and genuine arousal was solid throughout.

We've had a physical relationship for over 16 years. It's gratifying and humbling to feel as connected as ever. There's more depth to it now. He has been very supportive and encouraging around my reboot, and letting me know how much he wants to be with me. It's sobering to realize how my "little private sex life with my PMO" took me away from something that sweet and valuable.

I haven't noticed any chaser effect this time, maybe at least in part because I came down with a cold. Now I'm back home, just resting and getting well.

I'm noticing over the last week or more that I have less and less attention pulled when I see a sexy man. I notice, but I think maybe the dopamine pathway has calmed down, it doesn't have that 'grab you' feeling. Also, I've had zero experience of thinking about PMO (or MO for that matter).

I think I'm about a week from 90 days PMO & MO free. So far I really like the benefits! I think there's more to go.
 

marsturm

Active Member
Awesome post, now-man, this sounds wonderful and gives me hope. Take care and good luck. Life is magical without P.
 

now-man

Member
Today is Day 90. It?s pretty quiet. I?m full of gratitude for what I?ve gotten from this reboot.

It feels like I?ve slowed down and become more present. Small things are more valuable.

A number of unusual things have happened recently - a close friend was killed in an accident; my next door neighbors' house burned in a fire; another friend had a medical emergency and died; I just had a minor surgery two days ago.

What I appreciate is that I feel simply present for these events. I feel more human. If I were still PMO?ing, I think there would be a numbing followed by a vague sense of disappointment in myself. With PMO?ing, and the dopamine rush as a familiar and ongoing experience, it?s almost as if "things should seem more important than they do.? Without it, things are more just what they are.

A small recap of my reboot thus far:

In the beginning I had a lot of urges to look at porn, surf hookup sites, and my attention was easily hijacked by seeing attractive men. It wasn?t especially difficult for me to not to give in to the urges because I had only just learned about the connection between porn and erectile dysfunction, and the chance to reverse my ED was a far more compelling goal.

After the first couple weeks I learned from this forum about porn substitutes, and realized I had been using a couple of those, so I eliminated them. I could feel the conflict within, a part of me not wanting to let go, but again, the chance to get my boners back was much more important to me.

Then, as the urges started to fade, I realized that I had not actually been horny in a long time. I had instead been getting off to images, using my body chemistry to get a high, basically out of boredom and avoidance. I was already experiencing the satisfaction of getting more things done and feeling like I was more fully inhabiting my life. And I was curious to see if and when I would feel a return of genuine horniness.

I has come in gentle increments as I?ve had a chance to spend short visits with my partner, who is currently long distance. He has been supportive, endearing, and quite the stud. In short, I feel as close to him as ever, and I feel turned on sexually with him - I hadn?t even fully looked at the fact that I had feared that was gone. I?m really, really glad that?s not the case. It was just displaced by the intensity and novelty in streaming porn.

I don?t even think about porn or masturbation now. I?m not concerned about whether I?ll want or need to M again. I'm also not as concerned about what my dick is going to do or not do. I don?t yet feel complete with my reboot, and for now I want to keep rewiring for the real thing with my partner. I may eventually have a romp outside the relationship (that is our setup), but it?s going to have to be really clear to me that it?s time, and that it?s not going to negatively impact what I?ve gotten in this reboot.

A few other things that have been supportive along the way:
-I cut back on my alcohol consumption, from having wine 5 nights a week, to having a drink twice a week or less.
-I?ve been seeing a chiropractor regularly for the first time in many years. He says he can repair a slightly squeezed disc in my lower back, and I?m going for it. Feels good to support my body.
-I haven?t changed my fitness routine too much, I was already pretty comfortable with that. It?s not very intense but it does the trick. I can say that I enjoy it more, so actually I think I am spending a little more time and effort on it.

Overall, I haven?t approached this thing zealously. I?ve kind of taken it slow and easy. The only thing I?ve seen as critical and been diligent about is: no porn and no masturbation. I started out wanting to find out if my ED was porn induced (and hoping it was, so I could reverse it). I?ve had lots of solid night and morning wood, and some successful boners with my partner. I wouldn?t say it?s 100% yet, but definite progress. But even if I hadn?t already gotten what I wanted with my member, the other benefits of being porn free would be well worth it. I really prefer the state of my energy and the way I spend my time.

A very dear friend came to visit from out of town. She looked at me and said ?You look amazing, really, really healthy and shining? which was surprising because I felt quite tired at the time. I said ?it must be the reboot!? It?s beautiful how the energy freed up from attention to PMO can be spent in ways that are more life enhancing.

Really glad I found Your Brain On Porn and Reboot Nation. And thank you gentlemen, for your support, camaraderie, and courage in sharing yourselves!
 

bob

Respected Member
Wonderful post and great that you have had such success at getting to this 90 point.

Way to go!
 

marsturm

Active Member
Well done now-man and congrats on 90 days! Being present is a wonderful gift of your reboot. I wish you many happy P and M free days. Good luck on your ongoing journey.
 
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