Thanks Anothertry. Just checking in to the journal. No new issues so far. I was working from home today so that was a risky situation, but no relapse of any sort. I'll be traveling to see family over the Thanksgiving holiday so there will be zero risk there I would hope. Then traveling for work the following week. That could be risky but I don't expect to fall into this again while being busy on travel.
I think I have a problem
- Thread starter Detente
- Start date
Anothertry
Active Member
Well done on getting through a risky day and keep ploughing on. You've got this!
Thanks sir. Appreciate the support.
I saw this interesting take on the root cause of addiction. A lot of it resonates with me. I do feel disconnected, and that's probably why I have this issue. But it's hard for me to believe there's no brain chemistry component.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-choice/201411/addiction-disease-isolation
I installed a blocker on my phone (the last episode was wth my phone) and ironically it blocks this site...
I saw this interesting take on the root cause of addiction. A lot of it resonates with me. I do feel disconnected, and that's probably why I have this issue. But it's hard for me to believe there's no brain chemistry component.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-choice/201411/addiction-disease-isolation
I installed a blocker on my phone (the last episode was wth my phone) and ironically it blocks this site...
Anothertry
Active Member
Me too!
The Johann Hari TED talk linked to in the article you post is well worth a watch, by the way. And in fact, this is not a seperate issue from brain chemistry and structure. Let me give you an example: taxi drivers in London literally have different brains from the rest of us! They learn something called 'the Knowledge' - literally creating a mental map of every major street in London (the whole city - not just the centre!). See a study below if you are interested - their brains literally grow in a very specific way!
http://holah.co.uk/study/maguire/
Equally, if we learn as we grow up that we are not loved, or encounter emotional coldness, anger,, rejection, or excessive anxiety in those close to us this learning process too actually changes the structure of our brains. Adults who have grown up with extreme trauma and abuse have identifiable differences in their brains that even a layman can see in a brain scan! Certain areas are smaller, which will make dealing with emotions and producing 'good' brain chemicals difficult.
A guy called Alan Schore writes a lot linking the fields of attachment theory and neuroscience if you're interested....
To sum up: sure. Some people may perhaps have genetically 'funny' brains that pre-dispose them to addiction. Others may have had social environments that changed their brain to create the disposition.
Either way, the good news we know is that the brain can change, it is very flexible and can create new connections at any age. Think of those taxi drivers, and their expanding brains! Whatever the cause of addiction, through effort, you can change your brain in to a non-addict brain!
And whatever the cause, finding ways to connect with others that leave you feeling happier and less isolated seems to be beneficial for every addiction - that process itself literally re-wires your brain, and changes the chemical balance!
Hope that's a helpful thought,
All the best,
AT.
The Johann Hari TED talk linked to in the article you post is well worth a watch, by the way. And in fact, this is not a seperate issue from brain chemistry and structure. Let me give you an example: taxi drivers in London literally have different brains from the rest of us! They learn something called 'the Knowledge' - literally creating a mental map of every major street in London (the whole city - not just the centre!). See a study below if you are interested - their brains literally grow in a very specific way!
http://holah.co.uk/study/maguire/
Equally, if we learn as we grow up that we are not loved, or encounter emotional coldness, anger,, rejection, or excessive anxiety in those close to us this learning process too actually changes the structure of our brains. Adults who have grown up with extreme trauma and abuse have identifiable differences in their brains that even a layman can see in a brain scan! Certain areas are smaller, which will make dealing with emotions and producing 'good' brain chemicals difficult.
A guy called Alan Schore writes a lot linking the fields of attachment theory and neuroscience if you're interested....
To sum up: sure. Some people may perhaps have genetically 'funny' brains that pre-dispose them to addiction. Others may have had social environments that changed their brain to create the disposition.
Either way, the good news we know is that the brain can change, it is very flexible and can create new connections at any age. Think of those taxi drivers, and their expanding brains! Whatever the cause of addiction, through effort, you can change your brain in to a non-addict brain!
And whatever the cause, finding ways to connect with others that leave you feeling happier and less isolated seems to be beneficial for every addiction - that process itself literally re-wires your brain, and changes the chemical balance!
Hope that's a helpful thought,
All the best,
AT.
Thanks Anotherty. Never heard of that taxi driver study. Very interesting.
Checking in because it was another "risky" day for me, having worked from home. Now home alone and don't have anything to really do until I catch a flight tomorrow. But I haven't really had any urges today, and think I'll be fine tonight, having now checked in.
Checking in because it was another "risky" day for me, having worked from home. Now home alone and don't have anything to really do until I catch a flight tomorrow. But I haven't really had any urges today, and think I'll be fine tonight, having now checked in.
Mikel
Active Member
Hey there. Just been reading your journal and of course, there are similarities.
I've deleted a few reddit accounts myself. When I've been trying to stop using porn, I've craved sex instead. This has lead me to seek out ads on craigslist and similar sites like that, looking up escorts, using chat lines (that definitely makes me feel like a loser) and using the nsfw personals on reddit. If I don't find what I'm looking for on one, I move on to the other, then the next one and the one after that etc etc etc. It's mental as I wouldn't be able to have sex anyway due to pied and sometimes I've edged whilst looking at profiles anyway. If there are no photos available, I still feel the dopamine hitting my brain and when I've stopped, my head feels fuzzy as hell. Eventually, it leads back to a full on relapse. Whether it's to porn or personals.
This time around, I'm cutting out everything. I can't even use normal dating profiles until I know I'm 12,000% sure I can use them safely.
Like another user has mentioned, if a website is causing a problem, cut it out completely. You don't need it hindering your recovery and being a possible trigger. I recently had an hourly reminder on my phone simply stating: 'NO PROFILES'. I work on my own whilst I'm at work and it's easy to convince myself that I'm only going to look up women to date. However, my mind wonders when I'm in such a position so it's not (currently) healthy for me.
I've deleted a few reddit accounts myself. When I've been trying to stop using porn, I've craved sex instead. This has lead me to seek out ads on craigslist and similar sites like that, looking up escorts, using chat lines (that definitely makes me feel like a loser) and using the nsfw personals on reddit. If I don't find what I'm looking for on one, I move on to the other, then the next one and the one after that etc etc etc. It's mental as I wouldn't be able to have sex anyway due to pied and sometimes I've edged whilst looking at profiles anyway. If there are no photos available, I still feel the dopamine hitting my brain and when I've stopped, my head feels fuzzy as hell. Eventually, it leads back to a full on relapse. Whether it's to porn or personals.
This time around, I'm cutting out everything. I can't even use normal dating profiles until I know I'm 12,000% sure I can use them safely.
Like another user has mentioned, if a website is causing a problem, cut it out completely. You don't need it hindering your recovery and being a possible trigger. I recently had an hourly reminder on my phone simply stating: 'NO PROFILES'. I work on my own whilst I'm at work and it's easy to convince myself that I'm only going to look up women to date. However, my mind wonders when I'm in such a position so it's not (currently) healthy for me.
Anothertry
Active Member
Hi Detente,
Good luck with the alone time - I can relate, I find that hard too. It might be worth having some strategies for what to do if there are times you are particularly triggered. Have you come across 'urge surfing'? If not, and you're interested I can probably find you some links. It is about knowing how to surf the waves of craving (and cravings do tend to emerge, rise, and then fall back again, like waves in a sea) without giving into them.
That is one option. Also distraction, but particularly meaningful distraction. Is there an old friend you long to talk to but have never had the time? Well maybe now's the time. Do you pray (realise this isn't everyone's thing) well, maybe now's the time. Do you love nature? Are there nice places to walk, that would get you out of the hotel room? This could be the time...
and so on,
Good luck with it, whatever you choose to do! And remember, if you are sure, in your heart, you really want to be free of an addictive behaviour - nothing can make you do it!
All the best,
AT.
Good luck with the alone time - I can relate, I find that hard too. It might be worth having some strategies for what to do if there are times you are particularly triggered. Have you come across 'urge surfing'? If not, and you're interested I can probably find you some links. It is about knowing how to surf the waves of craving (and cravings do tend to emerge, rise, and then fall back again, like waves in a sea) without giving into them.
That is one option. Also distraction, but particularly meaningful distraction. Is there an old friend you long to talk to but have never had the time? Well maybe now's the time. Do you pray (realise this isn't everyone's thing) well, maybe now's the time. Do you love nature? Are there nice places to walk, that would get you out of the hotel room? This could be the time...
and so on,
Good luck with it, whatever you choose to do! And remember, if you are sure, in your heart, you really want to be free of an addictive behaviour - nothing can make you do it!
All the best,
AT.
Thanks AT and Mikel. Unfortunately, I have to report another relapse from last night. I didn't really want to have to report this one, and I had sort of justified it to myself as being OK, but objectively it wasn't. This was in line with what you're talking about, Mikel. I'd gotten home from my work trip, was home alone, and tired (a risky combination), and I went onto one of Reddit's NSFW personals boards, looking for someone who'd be where I'll be during my next trip, next week. I created a new profile and, amazingly, a girl replied, we started chatting, and she sent me photos and videos of herself. I again stayed up all night chatting, or waiting to hear responses from her. I thought I could justify this because it was trying to connect and have sex with a real person, as in a legitimate way to relieve the "drought." But I really wasn't into what she wanted to do, and I'm sure that if I actually met her in person (it wasn't likely because of our schedules) I'd feel completely empty and lonely and disgusted afterward. Like before, I was just sort of telling her what I thought she wanted to hear, so that she'd keep chatting with me. (I actually think I'm a pretty vanilla person, sexually.) I felt bad immediately after I finally said goodbye to her online and returned to the real world. To end the night, I MO'ed to a photo of someone on a dating site who had looked at my profile, a "wholesome"-looking girl who I'd imagined would be sweet, kind, and loving, someone who deep down I think I would want to be with. Of course I again now feel empty, lonely, and disgusted this morning.
I hate to ban Reddit entirely but it might be necessary. Mikel, glad to know someone else has had issues with Reddit. I think I'm OK with dating sites. They can be time-wasters and cause problems for other reasons, but I don't see them as contributing to this problem I can't seem to shake. In fact, if I get serious about trying to date someone, a dating site is probably the best way for me to make that happen.
AT, hadn't heard of urge surfing but I just Googled it. As for distractions, walking would be a good one to implement. It's easy and gets me away from the computer in general. Even without this stuff, I'm online reading a lot, checking email, etc.
This is really a shame because the time seemed to pass pretty easily while being with family and being busy on the road. And it's sad how I can go from being around family, spending time together, not thinking all about myself for once, feeling more connected, and therefore not having any interest in this kind of crap ... to one week later being back in the gutter. Now it'll be until at least March before I can hit 90 days.
I'm discouraged, but I have no choice but to start again.
I hate to ban Reddit entirely but it might be necessary. Mikel, glad to know someone else has had issues with Reddit. I think I'm OK with dating sites. They can be time-wasters and cause problems for other reasons, but I don't see them as contributing to this problem I can't seem to shake. In fact, if I get serious about trying to date someone, a dating site is probably the best way for me to make that happen.
AT, hadn't heard of urge surfing but I just Googled it. As for distractions, walking would be a good one to implement. It's easy and gets me away from the computer in general. Even without this stuff, I'm online reading a lot, checking email, etc.
This is really a shame because the time seemed to pass pretty easily while being with family and being busy on the road. And it's sad how I can go from being around family, spending time together, not thinking all about myself for once, feeling more connected, and therefore not having any interest in this kind of crap ... to one week later being back in the gutter. Now it'll be until at least March before I can hit 90 days.
I'm discouraged, but I have no choice but to start again.
Mikel
Active Member
Yep, been there. Chatted to people purely because they are 'there' so to speak. The desperation and loneliness can be crushing at times, hence seeking out avenues we wouldn't normally seek. Online dating is probably my only source to meet the opposite sex but as I've already mentioned, it's not healthy at the moment and maybe it never will. I'd rather focus on getting well than try something which could possibly hinder my recovery. It sounds like you may not be comfortable being in your own skin or at the very least, spending time on your own. What do you think?
Anothertry
Active Member
Hi Detente,
Well done for coming back after another slip! There are many people who slip many, many times before finally getting this out of their lives. I hope that you never do again - as it obviously does not make you feel good. But I think one thing that can happen is that people feel so ashamed of their slips, they slink back completely into the addiction because they can't face telling people that they have 'failed' again.
Do you know the story of Robert the Bruce and the spider? If not here is a link:
http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/warsofindependence/bruceandspider/index.asp
Lesson: losing a battle isn't a failure. You haven't failed till you give up the war. Keep fighting, man!
Well done for coming back after another slip! There are many people who slip many, many times before finally getting this out of their lives. I hope that you never do again - as it obviously does not make you feel good. But I think one thing that can happen is that people feel so ashamed of their slips, they slink back completely into the addiction because they can't face telling people that they have 'failed' again.
Do you know the story of Robert the Bruce and the spider? If not here is a link:
http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/warsofindependence/bruceandspider/index.asp
Lesson: losing a battle isn't a failure. You haven't failed till you give up the war. Keep fighting, man!
Anothertry
Active Member
And one last thought:
Getting off the internet and into the world seems to be really helpful for most of us. One option would be to put a time limit on your web activity. Spend the rest of the time walking, meeting family, dancing, singing - whatever floats your boat! Web connections aren't as satisfying as face-to-face as it sounded, from your last post, like you are discovering...
Getting off the internet and into the world seems to be really helpful for most of us. One option would be to put a time limit on your web activity. Spend the rest of the time walking, meeting family, dancing, singing - whatever floats your boat! Web connections aren't as satisfying as face-to-face as it sounded, from your last post, like you are discovering...
Day 2.
Quick check-in before I go on my next work trip. AT, thanks again. I started reading your journal and see some similarities there and am very impressed with your thinking. I've also seen your struggles (at least early on, I'm only halfway through the journal), which makes me feel not so bad about my slipups. I'll check out that link next time I log in.
Some moves I've made:
- Blocked Reddit on my laptop. My blocker on my computer nicely blocks all of Reddit, so I don't have to block each NSFW subreddit one by one.
- Downloaded a smart phone usage tracker that also allows you to schedule times for apps and Internet to be blocked. I'm going to experiment with blocking it starting at 9:30 pm and until 5:30 am. This would lessen the risk of falling into this again and pulling an all-nighter. Also would help with sleep hygiene.
- Deleted one "swipe" dating app and thinking of deleting Tinder. I don't have problems with these in terms of pursuing sex (at least not seriously) but they are addictive, a time waster, and I tend to "collect" matches and not act on them. These apps are mainly based on photos, so you have no deep sense of what a person is about based on the profile. When I use them I'm not really being serious about pursuing a relationship.
Quick check-in before I go on my next work trip. AT, thanks again. I started reading your journal and see some similarities there and am very impressed with your thinking. I've also seen your struggles (at least early on, I'm only halfway through the journal), which makes me feel not so bad about my slipups. I'll check out that link next time I log in.
Some moves I've made:
- Blocked Reddit on my laptop. My blocker on my computer nicely blocks all of Reddit, so I don't have to block each NSFW subreddit one by one.
- Downloaded a smart phone usage tracker that also allows you to schedule times for apps and Internet to be blocked. I'm going to experiment with blocking it starting at 9:30 pm and until 5:30 am. This would lessen the risk of falling into this again and pulling an all-nighter. Also would help with sleep hygiene.
- Deleted one "swipe" dating app and thinking of deleting Tinder. I don't have problems with these in terms of pursuing sex (at least not seriously) but they are addictive, a time waster, and I tend to "collect" matches and not act on them. These apps are mainly based on photos, so you have no deep sense of what a person is about based on the profile. When I use them I'm not really being serious about pursuing a relationship.
Anothertry
Active Member
Hi Detente, those sound like really good moves.
If I am honest with you, I sometimes feel like the last person who should be giving people advice, as I am still struggling myself! On the other hand, I have learned a thing or two over time about what does help me stay PMO free, and I like to offer that to others to see if it helps them.
Ultimately, each of us will be free of this I believe, when for a consistent period of time, we want to be free more than we want PMO. I am in that place alot of the time - but not all the time,and that is why I slip.
So my journey is about building consistency of motivation, and making it as difficult as possible for myself to slip up when my motivation does go.
I have found a slow but consistent improvement - certain places I no longer look at P - e.g. in public, certain things no longer trigger me, much less likely to 'pull an all-nighter' etc. I believe I will get their in the end. My attitude is 'never give up '. Each PMO free day is worth achieving!
If I am honest with you, I sometimes feel like the last person who should be giving people advice, as I am still struggling myself! On the other hand, I have learned a thing or two over time about what does help me stay PMO free, and I like to offer that to others to see if it helps them.
Ultimately, each of us will be free of this I believe, when for a consistent period of time, we want to be free more than we want PMO. I am in that place alot of the time - but not all the time,and that is why I slip.
So my journey is about building consistency of motivation, and making it as difficult as possible for myself to slip up when my motivation does go.
I have found a slow but consistent improvement - certain places I no longer look at P - e.g. in public, certain things no longer trigger me, much less likely to 'pull an all-nighter' etc. I believe I will get their in the end. My attitude is 'never give up '. Each PMO free day is worth achieving!
Day 9.
Thanks again AT for reading and commenting. You're continuing optimism despite struggling is inspiring.
The phone blocker is nice. It's interesting to see how much I use my phone and it's been helpful to not have it available each night depending on how I've set it.
No real P temptation this week being on the road with a busy schedule. I did slipup somewhat on Friday night, where I got really drunk at the hotel bar. I was blowing off some steam after a long week, wasting my time flirting with women and talking to people the more drunk I got, and I paid for it the next day with an early flight. Felt horrible all day and still feel bad, physically. And I M'ed that night. Because it wasn't PMO, I'm not resetting the tracker. But like PMO, this sort of thing feels out-of-control, wastes time, and comes with a physical toll. And I really don't like myself afterward.
But onward. Home alone all weekend and not feeling any desire to get on Reddit, so that's good.
Thanks again AT for reading and commenting. You're continuing optimism despite struggling is inspiring.
The phone blocker is nice. It's interesting to see how much I use my phone and it's been helpful to not have it available each night depending on how I've set it.
No real P temptation this week being on the road with a busy schedule. I did slipup somewhat on Friday night, where I got really drunk at the hotel bar. I was blowing off some steam after a long week, wasting my time flirting with women and talking to people the more drunk I got, and I paid for it the next day with an early flight. Felt horrible all day and still feel bad, physically. And I M'ed that night. Because it wasn't PMO, I'm not resetting the tracker. But like PMO, this sort of thing feels out-of-control, wastes time, and comes with a physical toll. And I really don't like myself afterward.
But onward. Home alone all weekend and not feeling any desire to get on Reddit, so that's good.
Anothertry
Active Member
Yeah - onwards and upwards. I also find it hard to stay clear of this stuff if I have a hangover. Sounds like you did really well to avoid Reddit!
Reading your post makes me think about my 'drinking policy'. Generally, I avoid having more than one drink for the above reasons. But I don't want to say I'll never get a bit 'merry' - at a close friends birthday party, for example, or something similar. Maybe it's good to have a plan for the next day - 'kill or cure' breakfast with a friend, a walk in the woods - something that helps with the hangover but keeps me connected to others, rather than withdrawing into a PMO fest....
Reading your post makes me think about my 'drinking policy'. Generally, I avoid having more than one drink for the above reasons. But I don't want to say I'll never get a bit 'merry' - at a close friends birthday party, for example, or something similar. Maybe it's good to have a plan for the next day - 'kill or cure' breakfast with a friend, a walk in the woods - something that helps with the hangover but keeps me connected to others, rather than withdrawing into a PMO fest....
Day 10.
AT, yeah, I felt so crappy and exhausted having been hungover, gotten no sleep, and flown back home that I had no interest in porn or anything that didn't involve me sitting on the couch watching TV. My drinking is sometimes very similar to my PMO habit -- I don't do it everyday by any stretch, but when I do do it, I can binge and go to the extreme. But with drinking, it's not nearly as often the case as it is with PMO on Reddit. I certainly can and do have a drink or two and call it a night, on the occasions when I do drink.
I noticed a very slight inkling of interest in checking out P today, a day I took off from work. Just noticed it but no real thought of following through. With the blocker on my laptop now it's too much of a pain anyway, ha.
AT, yeah, I felt so crappy and exhausted having been hungover, gotten no sleep, and flown back home that I had no interest in porn or anything that didn't involve me sitting on the couch watching TV. My drinking is sometimes very similar to my PMO habit -- I don't do it everyday by any stretch, but when I do do it, I can binge and go to the extreme. But with drinking, it's not nearly as often the case as it is with PMO on Reddit. I certainly can and do have a drink or two and call it a night, on the occasions when I do drink.
I noticed a very slight inkling of interest in checking out P today, a day I took off from work. Just noticed it but no real thought of following through. With the blocker on my laptop now it's too much of a pain anyway, ha.