Quick thanks to Gabe

[Andrew1973]

Just another thought Mr S....

Have you thought of starting a journal in the 40+ section. Perhaps you're ready to share a bit more of your story? Also writing there rather than in 'Porn Addiction' area might help connect you with more guys and of a similar age group. I find, the more you are willing to share your story, the more connections you will make and help you will receive. It's also very cathartic and removes the power of shame. No pressure of course.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK,  Thanks a lot for caring enough to help. It's a good feeling. I'm going to check out the journal here. B/c I keep a real journal I've not felt the need. But there might be added benefits there.
As far as meditation, I do it and know the idea of separating ideas and thoughts from myself. As of yet that has not been able to counter my addiction.
Most of it's power at this point is probably due to it being such a long habit. That's why there's no trigger per se. 
The last minute diversion has worked. It would be worthwhile to try to turn that into a habit.
April has been rough but I do feel a sense of accomplishment that I've not o'ed.
Hopefully you're still plugging away and having an easier time than me.

 

[Andrew1973]

Last day of April Mr S, so let?s both ensure we add another 30 days to our total in May! I wrote the last minute diversion out on the notes app on my phone to access easily when I feel the need. Off to bed now here in UK. Take care.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK,  You were right re the over 40. Much easier to be on the same page. Thanks.
I now have a blank calendar (May) staring me in the face--opportunity or Mt. Everest?
At the moment it feels like the latter.  How are you faring?

 

[Andrew1973]

Good ref over 40 Mr S. Ref May, I'm getting my kit together and am ready to tackle Mount Everest....are you joining me? Hope so.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK,  I'm just trying to stay on the rails at this point.
If you have any tips for a very very bad tech guy re getting p off my iphone, I'd appreciate it.
My attempts have been unfruitful. 
Never too early to start up Everest even if it is just reading a map at this point.

 

[Andrew1973]

Hi Mrs S,

Did you listen to the Porn Free Radio podcast on tech? If not worth a look.

I'm not a tech geek but a couple of points:

1) do you really need an iPhone? If it's a source of weakness can you eliminate it entirely? Put your Sim in a basic nokia. If not....
2) When are the times/places that you are most tempted by the phone. Eg: in bed. If so, don't allow the phone in the bedroom. Move temptation out of harms way.
3) Look at iPhone screentime restrictions. You can turn off or set timelimits lots of things here - time iPhone allows you to use it, time it allows specific apps, filter adult content etc. I told you my wife has the password for them for me, and I know you don't have that option right now, but you could select a password quickly (a random one), write it down on a piece of paper, put in an envelope and lock away. That way, you've a barrier to go through to reaccess the bits of the phone that you don't want to use. Go to settings/screentime and have a play around and see what might be useful to you.
4) do you tend to be on the iPhone a little too much anyway (irrespective of porn). Phones and apps are addictive in themselves. Read up about detoxing yourself from them. I have chosen to have no facebook, twitter etc because I realised they cost me more in terms of lost time and unhealthy mindset (the dopamine hit from people liking my posts etc), than they actually benefitted me and my life. Much better to use that time for healthy pursuits that will build my self respect and esteem, instead of just being a slave to the little machine. Why not set times that you can go on your phone and eliminate it the rest of the time (you can do this also via settings/screentime).

Good luck - but whatever, make sure you take some practical action - I'd be interested to know what you think once you've explored the suggestions above! (I'm not letting you let yourself off the hook, as I know the easiest thing is often to do nothing!)

Take care.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK,  Success on the blocker!! That's huge for me b/c it gives me enough breathing room to get my head right. That easy accessibility was killing me. I'm so darn fragile anything can be a trigger. And I owe you a big thanks for your ideas. 
The tough love from you was just what the doctor ordered.
So, using my own counting method, no o's, today is day 60, 2/3 of the way to the next big milestone. It will probably take me much longer to reboot b/c of all this edging but it's still a streak in my book.  Plus I've gotten rid of a lot of temptations.
Here's what I'm hoping:  I'll be able to look back someday and point to concrete proof of how hard this is and how much I've failed and feel a sense of pride and accomplishment. My journal entries lately have definitely shown the intensity of this struggle w/ failures.
How are you my friend?

 

[Andrew1973]

I'm good thanks Mr S. Got to day 30. Busy with a lot of things so plenty of 'good' distractions. Great news about the blocker. I know it helps me enormously. Most of the problem is the fight in your mind "should I, shouldn't I...etc". Having the blockers on for me just turns that dialogue off and creates some space for me to, as you say.....get my head right. It won't remove temptation completely however, so you need to be on your guard, and constantly try to put obstacles in between yourself and the access to PMO. Next step is probably to try and stop that edging...I say that only because I know from experience that doing that is like walking a tightrope. My thing is fantasies in the night....I've learned from bitter experience that if I indulge them, then it's game over - maybe not then, but the day after, or the day after that I will succumb to PMO. It just keeps your reward system fired up and that's not helpful to recovery. You're doing well my friend....onwards and upwards!!

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK,  I'm glad you're doing so well.  I wish I could say the same. No sooner did I block Chrome but I discovered Instagram.  It is terrible for me and I've been edging again.
The truth is I feel pathetic- like nobody could be such a junkie as me.  (I know intellectually that's nuts.)  But even w/ this forum I feel alone and w/ out defenses.
Sometimes I can't believe how desperate I am to look at porn- go right back to another source.  Will it ever end?
I feel like I'll keep finding ways to get around blockers.  I found myself trying to look at erotic lit on Amazon.  That's pretty low. But I've been much lower.
I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever be able to do this. Perhaps I underestimated the depth of my addiction and/or the strength of the foe.
Have you felt any of this or did you just know you'd succeed eventually?
It doesn't help that when I feel like this I start dredging up the woulda, shoulda, couldas. Then it becomes a sort of vicious cycle.
Do you think I should keep going trying to block Instagram now even though I know I'll find something else eventually?
Hopefully someday I'll look back and see how broken I feel right now and I'll be w/out cravings for porn.
Sorry to be dwelling so much on myself. I doubt I can be much help to any one where I am. Probably I'd just bring people down. I sincerely hope I don't do that to you.
I wish I had a little of Winston Churchill to tap into.

 

[Andrew1973]

Hi Mr S,
Yes, I have been there. The human brain is very ingenious and as the saying goes "necessity is the mother of invention". Whilst you are motivated to seek out porn, your brain will always find a way around your blockers. Over the past 2 years my cycle has been pretty much:
1) set up a blocker
2) have a period of sobriety (maybe a week or 10 days) in the knowledge that I'd done something good and 'reset' a boundary
3) something trigger me, I become tempted, and work out a way around that blocker -> PMO
4) feel sh*t, put a new blocker fix in place for that particular loophole, understand the trigger and strengthen my plan - reaffirm my goal
5) start the cycle again

You will do the same. For sure. Yet today, it's not an issue for me (or hasn't been for the last 32 days, since I started here) so that should be a signal that progress is possible. You are no different from me.

Based on what you've shared with me, I observe/have the following advice/questions:

- keep blocking stuff, so yes - if Instagram is a temptation, block it.
- realise that as an intelligent guy, you will always find a way around, so you can't rely 100% on this - it's just about keeping the porn out of arm's reach giving you time to follow the 6 point plan we discussed.
- If you lie on your bed/sit in your comfy chair or whatever and start edging, you're actually pulling the porn nearer to you - there's just no way that your self control and the 'logical' area of your brain will override your reward system in that scenario.
- What is happening here - are you starting to edge and then seek out the porn, or are you seeking out the porn and then edging? Either way, I don't think this edging is healthy for you. At all. It feels like you're an alcoholic giving up spirits but still allowing yourself to drink beer.

- if you conclude that edging is bad for your recovery, and/or a trigger to seek out porn in itself, you would benefit from developing a plan around stopping the edging. Where do you usually do it? - Don't spend time there, What time of day? - change your routine, What triggers you to edge? - Be aware, be ready with a plan - a distraction, an alternative - go for a walk/run - where you CAN'T edge!, call a friend, come on here and help someone out, read a book that will help your recovery (that always makes me feel empowered and like I'm winning the battle in the moment). There's a good book by a guy called James Clear called Atomic Habits that a couple of guys were mentioning on here. I've read it and it's worth a read.

Perhaps your counter ignoring edging is partially misleading? Perhaps you should have another counter for edging, and focus on that on the basis that if you make progress there, your overall journey will be more successful - just a thought. Your call.

On a separate point, I must point out to you that your language ad self talk continues to be defeatist, and overly self critical. You mention Churchill - I can promise you, he would not have achieved what he achieved with that mindset - neither will you, neither would I. Winston Churchill created his own Winston Churchill to tap into. You can do the same. You have to be positive. Did you read that book by Richard Carlson I mentioned? If not, get off your iPhone and read it. This current negative cycle of thinking will only lead you straight back to the self comforting practice of edging. Thinking positively is another barrier to PMO as it actually helps reduce the underlying emotional need for self soothing that feeds the addiction. Changing your mindset and thought patterns should be considered as the foundation to your recovery.

Please forgive me if I'm too direct my friend - it come from a position of love, and if I overstep the mark please tell me.

Keep going. It took Churchill 6 years to win the war, but my word, it was worth it.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK, Actually you were right on the mark for most. It is a comfy chair and it is a certain time of day. I'm thinking of re-arranging the furniture. Also a planned distraction would be a great help. 
A big part of my issue goes beyond porn, as you mentioned--self soothing, low self-esteem, defeatism... These have been around forever in some form or another. I'm not sure if porn is the symptom or the cause.
Re the edging, it is the porn (lately sexual movies, not porn). So the blockers have removed the porn from my menu but I still find erotic movies that fit the bill. (That is progress in and of itself.)
You're right, my edging is like drinking beer on a tight rope.  I'll fall off eventually. That is inevitable.
Re my count (6 weeks/63days), I just don't know. It may be counter-productive but I don't think so. On some level it may avoiding the big moment when I need to choose not to be an addict and give up all that artificial stimulation.  That moment must come whether I like it or not.  I'm probably making this reboot harder than it needs to be.
4 women are texting me and I'm edging at that exact time. I feel like a faker/cheater. Like I need to put away the porn before I'm able to have an intimate lasting relationship. That gets me into the vicious cycle w/ loneliness and self-soothing. I can't believe how screwed up I am.  (more negative talk)
Even if disingenuous I'll keep counting no o as a temporary standard. It gives me a tiny bit of hope to hang on to.
Pal I really appreciate your response/help in a big way. It's forcing me to be honest.
How are you doing?
P.S. waiting for the Carlson book to be delivered

 

[Andrew1973]

Hi Mr S,
I have realised something that I didn't quite appreciate before. I had assumed that you had recognised that you had an addiction, and resolved to do something about it. Reading your last post however, I realise I am wrong and had made an assumption. You have recognised that you have an addiction (and that is why you are here...which is great), but you have not yet "chosen not to be an addict and give up all that artificial stimulation."
I will continue (with your permission) the hard talk approach in saying that, until you make that step - and do so sincerely and definitively, you will not progress. That is not something that I can help you with at all....it has to come from within. Whatever the reasons are to get to this point, you have to get to it yourself as it is only then that you can garner the determination and resolve to turn your back 100% on the things that contribute to your addiction. Even if you then subsequently slip, this does not signify a change of view or a choice to allow those things back in to your life, rather an opportunity to reflect on where the weakness was in your plan, and correct it for next time round.
For me that point was a self loathing resulting from continued failures to keep my conduct in line with my own values, combined with a fear of being found out and the associated pain that would cause to my loved ones and utter shame to me. I had done a lot of reading/podcasts on the subject throughout my continued lapses and realised that the missing ingredient in my plan was connectedness and accountability, so I came here, driven by the determination to turn my back on PMO, and thankfully, 33 days on it is working, and working well (big thanks to all here for that). However, none of that would have happened without my choice and determination to rid myself of what was perpetuating my addiction - so the looking at relatively innocuous sites, fanaticising at night time, surfing classified ads for mental stimulation etc....it all had to go.
I'm really pleased you've got that book coming - it isn't a solve all, but I believe will help with your broader thinking pattern in the same way it did mine (I was suffering from depression at the time I came across it and it was really valuable in my recovery.) On the PMO side of things, I enjoy our dialogue a lot - you are a very intelligent and humorous guy, and am keen to continue it, but at the same time, I realise my limitations in helping you effectively until you get to that same point of inflection where you take accountability and resolve to change - permanently. Perhaps our conversations, and your own reflections should focus on that therefore, rather than practical steps to block certain websites, which chair you sit in etc, as it's only after you make that call to commit to turn your back on PMO that those practical steps will start to be effective.
What do you think...does that make sense or am I missing something or being too harsh?
PS: why are four women texting you - what about and in what circumstances?
Take care my friend.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK,  Well, so much for the idea of trying to charm the pants off you so I wouldn't have to face tough love.
In this case , at least for one day, the practical strategy of avoiding the chair and changing the routine were a godsend. So, please keep those pearls coming.
As to whether I've made the decision to break from pmo (all artificial stimulation), yes! I have. Probably I've given myself too much wiggle room by not beginning a new count w/ edging.
I'm counting (64 days) from the inception of this journey despite relapses. I know my reboot will take longer than 90 days, probably at least a year.
For you it was the self-loathing. For me it is the loneliness that's the inflection point. Wanting intimacy is a strong natural urge. But I think b/c of my personality this porn-induced loneliness is excruciating. I actually like people and enjoy being with them and caring for them.
Pmo has turned this on its head. You mentioned cognitive dissonance somewhere. I have that in spades. I want to love a woman and respect her but the porn was gradually making me demeaning/de-humanizing of women (who are people.) Something has to give. I can't be self-soothing with an outlet that instills those mean feelings in me.
Not to be bragging but I'm not too hard on the eyes and I shower every day. But I realize I will shun subconsciously any intimate relationship no matter how great the gal. Usually, I just give them an excuse to shun me so I don't have to take responsibility.
One of them must go-- pmo or an intimate relationship w/ a woman.  Some guys may have no issue separating the two but it's too much dissonance for me. I've tried to do both and I feel like a walking scumbag.
Rest assured I've made the decision quit my pmo addiction. Unfortunately it may take even longer for me to regain a healthy/non-sexualized view of women. But I think that will come b/c I know from my past I can be intimate w/ a woman in the true sense.
Luckily, I didn't go too far down that demeaning/violence/control to women route in porn. To me it was not arousing.
Brother, I thank you so much for drawing the distinction between a slip and a choice to allow pmo back into my life. The humbling truth for me is that slips will happen but my choice remains constant.
The women I'm texting are all ones I want to see. (not sexting)

 

[Andrew1973]

Good morning Mr Slurps,
I truly applaud your decision to turn your back on PMO, including all artificial stimulation. Does this include edging without artificial stimulation also? My suggestion is that you forget about the other counter (not to devalue the achievement at all), and concentrate on this new one which includes edging. Much better to slip and reset a more stringent counter, taking the learnings each time and improving with the slips, than to fool yourself with a bigger number on a looser definition of success, failing to address the real underlying issues. We then celebrate the successful days together, and take the learnings from the set backs, which will become less frequent with time. What do you think?
I am not a psychologist at all - far from it, but based on my own personal experience and relating it to yours, it strikes me that there are a few themes in your life that to some extent overlap, and would benefit from exploration:
- the edging/pmo
- your -ve thinking
- your relationships with and the way you relate to women

On the flip side, you have so much to offer to yourself and others:
- you are caring
- you have a moral compass (this is why the dissonance - if you had no moral compass there would be no dissonance!)
- you are intelligent
- you are funny
- you have good self awareness
- you are good looking (by your own assessment at least ;-) )

How great it would be if you could get to a place where, through a self determined shift in focus these positives just wash away the negatives, and in turn become a virtuous circle rather than the current cycle?

I can relate 100% to the self soothing. I am also many of the positive things above, but have struggled throughout my adult life with the need for external validation which has impacted my self esteem. Noone would know externally - I am what people would regard as successful, solvent etc etc, but inside there is a void of self doubt, of comparing myself unfavourably with my view of others etc. I also have a tendency to worry, to catastrophise. What a great soothing place PMO has been on those days when I feel like that - except as we now know its a trap, the costs of which vastly outweigh the benefits. So weaning myself off it involves fixing the need that took me there in the first place, decades ago. That is the real challenge I think, and at the root of it is self awareness of, and a determination to change our thinking patterns combined with a bit of self discipline and practical action. My 35 day streak of no PMO, self stimulation of any variety etc has coincided with me putting what I believe is the final piece of my recovery jigsaw in place, which is the connectivity with others. I am learning so much from others and I also know that I am helping others and that improves my self esteem. Your kind words on the other post meant a lot to me. Thank you. I also hold the (personal) view that to stumble now, would not only let myself down, and those around me, but it would feel like I had broken my accountability to you guys - it feels to me at least, as if we're a team and we all need to do our best for each other and for ourselves.

I'd really like to understand a bit more about your personality as you put it. Why do you crave intimacy so much and then subconsciously shun any intimate relationship no matter how great the gal? Why are you speaking with 4 different women? That seems to run counter to the desire for intimacy. Is there an ego/approval need element to this? (I ask that because there is a little bit of that in me too - I have always enjoyed flirting with women and the thought that they might 'want me' is such a self esteem boost). I'm not judging any of the above - just seeking clarity and exploring a little.

Enough of my ramblings for today - midday now here in the UK and jobs to do.
Have a good Saturday.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK,  Thanks for your caring/well-thought out post. It means very much to me. Re my method of counting:  when 2 bright caring adults differ on something, that's fine. We'll agree to disagree. I acknowledge the very real possibility that I'm wrong (it's happened once or twice).
By the way, I've had 3 very good days in a row and I think a lot has to do w/ your suggestion re the comfy chair/routine. The darn blockers have gotten a bit carried away though. They won't let me get on amazon to order books. Oh well, if I could figure out a way to get to porn I should be able to get some good books on my shelf.
Re the root of my issues, some is due to health issues/history (this is not my own conjecture.) In a nutshell: brain hemorrhage, lots of surgeries incl 2 big, craniotomies, (age 14), b/c of that and ongoing epilepsy my brain/psychology is a bit, how shall we put it nicely...unique. Also that age around adolescence is impt. re girls/relationships.
None of that matters much right now b/c ironically, I'm at a good place where I'm ready, willing and able to make healthy choices. By the way I do appreciate the compliments though my litany would have been longer. hahaha  I do feel a shift taking place in the positive direction. (the meditation practice is key)
There is a which came first chicken... symptom v. cause... re porn and my other baggage.  That's a slippery slope and one that shifts and changes shape. If you could figure that out you'd be able to buy yourself one of those expensive "football' clubs. lol
I'm definitely not being flippant re how serious and damaging my addiction is. It scares the crap out of me and it helps for me to lighten up sometimes.
Also I don't take lightly you're help/caring. Even if we never meet I feel like you're a friend. (You know more re me than any one alive.)

 

[Andrew1973]

Thanks for your openness and trust Mr S, and yes - you feel very much like a friend too. It is amazing that there is a community of guys here who in may cases have only shared what that have shared here with this group alone. One thing I was reflecting on is that we are all different - from different races, countries/states, social backgrounds, religious and political beliefs and yet there is a unifying need that cuts through all of that. When you strip back the layers of social identity that humans tend to either inherit or build, there more often than not the same core human needs. This is a great forum for 'cutting straight to the chase' and helping each other work through meeting some of those human needs in non destructive ways.
Well done on the 3 days. I acknowledge and respect your assertion to 'agree to disagree' on the counter! How are things going, and in particularly the edging? Has 3 days become 5 or is it time to burn the comfy chair?! hopefully the former! Take care.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hi UK, 3 has become 5, thanks. I suppose your persistence has paid off and I've got a dual counter. lol  In all honesty, it does feel fairer and easier to relate to people here w/out having an asterisk next to my count (day #69/5) It also removes a level of self-deceit.
As far as this forum goes, it is almost miraculous. History is full of, and we can relate, to the potential destructiveness of misdirected sex-drive. Sometimes it's horrific and also destructive of others.
To have a place where I can say I sometimes felt like a worthless piece of crap (note- not saying 'am') and have others say, "Don't worry, I've felt that too. And btw you're not worthless"--is a blessing.
It helps me get humble. Part of the porn thing for me is a warped sort of 'logic'. "I can have any number of beautiful women who ..." And there are people here who can relate.  Also, I'm glad that we all show respect even for those that have crossed the line into realms we consider weird.
As far as the comfy chair, that's funny. It's for the time being a sort of easel for a nice framed print. I just set some art on it and that is a much better use than it had. In this respect not being married is a luxury b/c I can get away w/ doing retarded stuff. lol
I'm on the fence about it but if karma works, you'll be getting paid back in spades.
How are you doing? 

 

[Andrew1973]

Hi Mr S,
I'm good thanks. Reading your last post, I'm starting to see a different side of you - much more positive and empowered. It's really good to see. Great to hear you've repurposed your comfy chair and read about 3 becoming 5. How have things been since? Take care and keep being the best version of you.

 

[mr.slurps]

Hiya UK,  I'm glad you're well.  It's too bad you guys are getting slammed so bad. You've got a country w/ grit. (Does that expression translate? I'ts a compliment.)
Today is day 6 clean. And I have been feeling more upbeat. It's not a good feeling getting bitch-slapped for a full week.
Tomorrow hopefully I'll be back on the positive side of the ledger for May.