Another story - probably the same as everyone else

[Androg]

It may be that masturbation is not a black and white issue. The issue may be how much. And of course whether you masturbate just to sensation or to fantasy, as pointed out above.

An occasional release doesn’t seem to upset people’s equilibrium too much…once they are on an even keel, but that doesn’t mean that masturbating, however you may do it, five times a day is going to help you avoid horniness. It may instead set up a pattern of cravings like porn use.

And equilibrium may also depend on your age. According to the ancient Chinese Taoists, the older you get, the fewer releases for best results.

 

[Blondie]

How we doing @GBS?

 

[GBS]

598 days sober
22 days no MO

Unlike me to be absent for 48 hours, but something happened and I was knocked back a bit. Coming straight on here and venting I felt wouldn’t advance the ball hence the mini break. I will get to what happened at the end.

Thanks for your collective thoughts on the no MO conundrum. I truly appreciate your weighing in.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t MO, or that your therapist is wrong, but if you don’t feel good about it when you do it then I don’t think there’s anything wrong with avoiding it.

Thanks Gallers. I think obviously it’s my choice. I am not masturbating because my therapist told me to. It’s a pure and simple equation of the 5 minutes of bliss versus the feelings afterwards. And I may have overstated those feelings. I don’t feel down, just slightly deflated and thinking I could have lasted longer.

Since you're not doing it that much and it's only to your wife, I think it's not a problem at all. But I agree with @Galatians51 too in that if it doesn't make you feel good, maybe you shouldn't. I guess you could ask yourself, am I not feeling good about this because I'm comparing myself to others and what they do or DON"T do etc. or do I really think this isn't good for me and that's why I feel bad afterwards.

I still don't think masturbation within reason is bad for anyone, but how much that should be is up to you. If I wasn't getting sex I'm not sure what I'd do quite frankly, but as I've said many times before, masturbation and porn go hand and hand in my mind, so I would have a real hard time doing one without the other, thus I would probably try not to do it at all, but that's me.

Cheers mate. Same theme. I feel fucking wonderful and then I feel less wonderful. I am on a reasonable streak right now. Refraining is manageable but it isn’t quite as simple as saying to myself “you won’t feel great 10 minutes afterwards so don’t”….well I can use that line today but it gets real tricky at 30 days. I agree masturbation, as long as it’s half way safe (I.e. not perverted fantasy), is just fine fir the whole world and it will be fine fir me too. Just don’t like that day 0 feeling. Always gets better at day 2 and significantly on day 4/5, so I need to chill.

I know you said you are only using your wife as your visual stimulant, and that is a good place to be, but it’s still involving fantasy and your brain is using that fantasy as a dopamine drip. I’ve heard of but never practiced mindful masturbation where you aren’t visualizing anything, you are just focusing on the feelings of masturbation. It’s like a quick get in get out thing. You don’t carry it on by edging, you just focus on the physical feeling until you release. I can’t help but wonder if the visualizing and porn like image that creates is giving you the feeling of regret afterwards.

You big J. Thank you. Tough to be told that masturbation to the thought of my wife in the shower is not ideal, but you’re probably right. Dopamine shmopamine! You could be right that it’s the fantasy that’s causing the regret. Not sure where to go with it except to the bathroom!

It may be that masturbation is not a black and white issue. The issue may be how much. And of course whether you masturbate just to sensation or to fantasy, as pointed out above.

An occasional release doesn’t seem to upset people’s equilibrium too much…once they are on an even keel, but that doesn’t mean that masturbating, however you may do it, five times a day is going to help you avoid horniness. It may instead set up a pattern of cravings like porn use.

And equilibrium may also depend on your age. According to the ancient Chinese Taoists, the older you get, the fewer releases for best results.

And Droggers. Hero again. Wise words. Those ancient Toaists could possibly be accused of pointing out the bleedin‘ obvious!

Sorry again for the late post. Either Sunday or Monday we had another discussion. For “discussion “ read “GBS bashing “. Some more brutality. Can’t give you the deats because it will bring me down. The bookies have lengthened their odds on me having sex this year.

I am ok though. Recovery has given me the strength to cope whatever is thrown at me. One day this will all be over and whatever the outcome I shall ride off into the sunset like a cowboy on his trusted steed.

 

[Androg]

Maybe it's best she gets it out of her system before the couple's counseling begins. I suspect some of it is just her protest because she has agreed to do it...and is going to have to get on with forgiveness and learn to trust you again.

 

[GBS]

599 days sober
23 days no MO

Maybe it's best she gets it out of her system before the couple's counseling begins. I suspect some of it is just her protest because she has agreed to do it...and is going to have to get on with forgiveness and learn to trust you again.

Honestly mate, that’s the most positive way of looking at it so I truly appreciate it. I so hope you’re right. It did feel like she needed to get something out rather than do so in front of the counsellor and look deranged. A few hours after the outburst she was super friendly actually, as if (and she’s done this before) she went too far and didn’t want me to run away.

Things are back on an even keel two days later, so it’s slightly water under the bridge although she fully knows she truly hurt me.

We persevere.

 

[GBS]

600 days sober
24 days no MO

That’s a good number I grant you that. Coming up to 20 months. There’s no secret really. I have full accountability because my wife says she will leave me if I go back to who I was before. It crosses my mind that she could still call it a day even if I don’t fall off, WOUKD I relapse then? I would like to think not.

I latched on to what pal @Ezel was talking about the last few days. He was referencing a book called Why you should NEVER masturbate by author David Baldwin. I managed to find the book online so I flicked through and read bits. Highly confusing actually. Bloody difficult to know who to believe these days. A powerful argument is made that we should basically never touch ourselves. Also he says it isn’t exactly true that semen retained just gets ultimately absorbed back into the body and dies. Anyway I am not suddenly in the never wank category, unless of course the sex life returns.

Wife has been lovely after our bust up so things are good. Weather nice too, so the boobs were out in a tight ish top yesterday. Makes the no MO streak trickier.

Have a good porn free Friday.

 

[Galatians51]

Hey man, congrats on 600 days!!

Even with the full accountability you mentioned this is still quite a feat! You inspire us!

 

[Blondie]

This is amazing @GBS. 600 days is quite the feat! You inspire as always.

I too looked at that book and found it interesting. When looking at it, it reminded me of the great divide between the East and the West when it comes to knowledge and "science". I don't know if I believe it all myself but it's nice to see something different. @Ezel is the man too, so there's that.

Bloody difficult to know who to believe these days

No kidding!

I'm glad things are going well with the lady now. Hopefully that was just a small storm that will pass.

Best

 

[Androg]

600 days sober
24 days no MO

That’s a good number I grant you that. Coming up to 20 months. There’s no secret really. I have full accountability because my wife says she will leave me if I go back to who I was before. It crosses my mind that she could still call it a day even if I don’t fall off, WOUKD I relapse then? I would like to think not.

I latched on to what pal @Ezel was talking about the last few days. He was referencing a book called Why you should NEVER masturbate by author David Baldwin. I managed to find the book online so I flicked through and read bits. Highly confusing actually. Bloody difficult to know who to believe these days. A powerful argument is made that we should basically never touch ourselves. Also he says it isn’t exactly true that semen retained just gets ultimately absorbed back into the body and dies. Anyway I am not suddenly in the never wank category, unless of course the sex life returns.

Wife has been lovely after our bust up so things are good. Weather nice too, so the boobs were out in a tight ish top yesterday. Makes the no MO streak trickier.

Have a good porn free Friday.

I don’t know if we have to “believe“ anyone. But I do think we need to make our own experiments to find out what works and does it work for us as individuals.

 

[GBS]

601 days sober
25 days no MO

Hey man, congrats on 600 days!!

Even with the full accountability you mentioned this is still quite a feat! You inspire us!

Thanks man. The accountability element is vast.

I too looked at that book and found it interesting. When looking at it, it reminded me of the great divide between the East and the West when it comes to knowledge and "science". I don't know if I believe it all myself but it's nice to see something different. @Ezel is the man too, so there's that.

Thanks @Blondie - bang On with the East/West divide. Sometimes it’s danger reading a book like that because you can feel yourself being drawn into the fold. My therapist is extremely chill on masturbating and if I showed her this book I think she’d possibly laugh. @Ezel is most definitely the man.

I don’t know if we have to “believe“ anyone. But I do think we need to make our own experiments to find out what works and does it work for us as individuals.

Thanks @Androg . That’s the nail firmly struck on the head.

Peaceful here. A rare feeling.

 

[GBS]

602 days sober
26 days no MO

 

[GBS]

603 days sober
27 days no MO

Things are good here. Couples therapy starts this week. We have solo sessions tomorrow then one together on Thursday. I simply don’t know if I am hopeful. I am open minded that’s for sure.

 

[GBS]

604 days sobriety from watching porn
28 days no MO

Am I excited that couples therapy starts today? Yes. Is my brain making it all about sex? A bit. But my brain is adjusted now and it says it’s not just sex, but connected sex that we want, indeed the one without the other is not worth having.

Got a solo session with counsellor today, as has my wife, and then we have one together on Thursday. I shall let you all know how it goes.

 

[GBS]

Ok. So not an ideal day. Tension high. Apparently wife is still in impact phase. Apparently we’re also at a crossroads. I thought this was something my wife said but it turns out to be the counsellor who said it to us both. He also started talking about exit strategies. I said I wasn’t thinking of one and didn’t understand why we were going there. Told my wife that later and she said I did have an exit strategy because it was essential to me that we have sex at some point or I’m leaving. I said that’s right. So there you go she said. Errrr……

Not an ideal start.

 

[Blondie]

Damn, I'm sorry to hear about this @GBS. All I can say is nice job holding your side of the matter. Sex is essential at some point down the road, and you holding her to that is definitely not a bad thing. You've been extremely patient and have changed your ways that much is sure. I'll keep you guys in my thoughts.

Best

 

[Jlied]

Hey Geebs, sorry for the less than good news, I echo what blondie says, sex is essential for the well being of the relationship. The intimacy that sex creates is essential for binding, it’s good for you to speak your peace and hold that line. Seems odd for a counselor to make those comments so early in the process, seems to me like they are already taking sides and to me that seems almost unprofessional or at minimum lacking judgement. How can they possibly know enough about your situation.

I love how open, honest, and open for change you have been this whole process. There really isn’t much more that I think could be expected of you. I’d challenge Mrs Geebs to find anyone in life more willing to do what you have dutifully tackled and as selflessly and without fanfare as you have. Should that person exist I’d like to shake his hand because men like you are unicorns. You have a worth as well, and maybe it’s time you start to realize that as well. I’m all for a happy ending and seeing a relationship be saved, I promise you I so want that for you, but I also don’t want you to be constantly put in a position of not winning or even being given a chance to win.

I have the utmost respect and love for you, you know that. I’ll never judge your decisions, but I hope you also see and understand your value in all this as well!

You inspire me to be better, thank you for all your contributions, no matter how hard they are to share.

 

[Galatians51]

I bet that counselor is also a divorce attorney. Sounds terrible that he is asking you about exit strategies, his goal should be to keep you guys together, not thinking about separating.

 

[Androg]

Ok. So not an ideal day. Tension high. Apparently wife is still in impact phase. Apparently we’re also at a crossroads. I thought this was something my wife said but it turns out to be the counsellor who said it to us both. He also started talking about exit strategies. I said I wasn’t thinking of one and didn’t understand why we were going there. Told my wife that later and she said I did have an exit strategy because it was essential to me that we have sex at some point or I’m leaving. I said that’s right. So there you go she said. Errrr……

Not an ideal start.

I wonder if you could propose snuggling for a while, for like a month, and just see if that flies before you make any decisions either one of you about “exit strategies.”

 

[GBS]

606 days sober
30 days no MO

Been a tough couple of days and with our together session coming up today, could be in another bloodbath. Honestly I am fine, and giving you all the details will probably force me not to be even handed, so please excuse me on that. Having said that you deserve response.

All I can say is nice job holding your side of the matter. Sex is essential at some point down the road, and you holding her to that is definitely not a bad thing. You've been extremely patient and have changed your ways that much is sure. I'll keep you guys in my thoughts.

Thanks mate. It was weird having the concept of sex in a marriage cast as an ultimatum and that being also cast as unreasonable. I am staying true to that whatever transpires.

Seems odd for a counselor to make those comments so early in the process, seems to me like they are already taking sides and to me that seems almost unprofessional or at minimum lacking judgement. How can they possibly know enough about your situation.

Cheers mate. I talked about that to my wife and she said he’d said the same thing to her like it was patter. That was actually a relief but it brought a mini attack from the wife who said I had presumed it was prompted by her saying something and that was typical me! Twisted something that didn’t need twisting.

bet that counselor is also a divorce attorney. Sounds terrible that he is asking you about exit strategies, his goal should be to keep you guys together, not thinking about separating.

Ha ha. Thanks Gallers. Doubtless we will be talking about his crude summing up today.

I wonder if you could propose naked snuggling for a while, for like a month, and just see if that flies before you make any decisions either one of you about “exit strategies.”

Thanks @Androg . Boy, I wish I could but I would be laughed out of court. The other day when she was angry she had complained that I was sleeping nearer the middle of the bed. I said I had just tried reaching out to her to hold hands or play footsie and we had bedclothes on. Occasionally I had rubbed her back and kissed her neck. She said that I had been “poking” her and that was her safe place. I said I would desist and later I asked her if she wanted me to move out of the bedroom. She did unequivocally say no to that, so it had an ok end but you can see how naked snuggling is going to be laughed out of court. That said I appreciate your kind input.

Today should be interesting. Let you know.

 

[Blondie]

Good luck today.

Sending you an awkward man hug from the States.