Its a process...I guess.

[Objectified1]

It's unfortunate that he can't set aside himself to be there for you. Which in short is what goes on when he is feeling bad because he's ruined your days and having low self esteem over it. He needs Counselling from someone who has been there. PA's are as a rule, are very self centred. That's why instead of dealing with life and the emotions that come with it, they turn in and get themselves lost in a sexual fantasy  land where everyone and everything serves them. Everything, even supposed recover is about "me" and they don't even realize it because they're so used to being like that. We're the same where we're so used to everything being about them we don't realize that's what's going on and we feel bad when we demand or expect more. He's not taking responsibility for what he did and then acting to make your life better.  He's doing the same things that got you guys where he's at in the first place.  Poor me. So you have a situation where your feeling hurt and sad communicate it to him and he then internalizes it (his usual course of action, which is not conscious but just automatic ) and shifts it to being about him. Oh I'm such a horrible person, look what I did to her ... etc etc . This is normal. He needs to realize that he is not being there for you and instead doing his usual when this happens and he needs to learn how to get outside himself and think about you. Your pain. Your needs. Etc. What's done is done. What can he do NOW to go forward? I honestly would suggest seeing a experienced Counsellor. Jason and Shelly martinkus with redemptive living, google them. They have helped me and my husband tremendously!!! I waited over a year and a half before going to them because I didn't think we really "needed" it. We could get over it on our own, right? Uhm.... nope. Something's weren't getting better or moving forward it seemed. In 3 weeks I notice a huge difference with us, and I've learned so much it's crazy. You need REAL help and support. My husband was similar to yours at the beginning of our "recovery". Of course he still feels guilt, shame and hurt over where he has put us. But he now realizes he must face those feelings and work through them and that wallowing in poor him is not helpful to him and especially not to me. I need him and I need him to take responsibility for his actions and then take new actions to help us recover. That can't be done  from a "poor me" position. He needs to stop shaming himself and realize he did this but he isn't this.

 

[Objectified1]

How long should he last? I really think it's totally different for everyone. My hubby doesn't last an hour or anything. I really dont time it I guess. I would guess actually intercourse is approx 20-30 minutes. Sometimes it's shorter, sometimes it's longer. However, he often has to pause, change positions or stop for short periods to make sure he doesn't O because he is getting "to" close.

 

[aquarius25]

Thank you to everyone for your response. I really appreciate all of the input, I am continuing to process and figure out how to work through this experience. I do think counseling would help and I do think after the move we are going to start doing that. Right now it would just be too much to add to life.

Yesterday was by birthday, and my little girls birthday too. We went to lunch together and had a really great time. Then last night I went out for "girls night". Seems all of my friend are anxious to get together all the time because we are moving soon. I don't really want to go into the details why I am not in the mood to hang out so I just go with it and put on a face. I had lots of anxiety about it all day yesterday so I ended up going to the gym and doing the workout twice. I got to pick it because it was my birthday. It was grueling. I don't pick easy ones, lol. It felt good to work out, so that was the upside. Helped me try and work out my nerves. Downs side, everyone was complaining at me for picking something super hard. I just chalk it up to them being wimps and ninny's, lol.

The workout was:
34 pushups
then 3 rounds of
34 wall ball sit ups (20lb ball)
34 overhead walking lunges (the first time I did 25lbs, the second time I did 45lbs)
12 toes 2 bar burpees
12 box jumps (24'' box)
After you finish the 3rd round you do a 100m farmer carry (I did 55lbs in each hand)

I thought it was super fun. I guess my version of fun is skewed, lol.

Last night ended up being ok. There were so many friends from different parts of my life that they didn't really blend well and ended up in clumps so I just drifted from one group to another. It made it easier because anytime I started to feel uncomfortable I could just move on.  The hubby collaborated with a local artist and friend of mine and surprised me with a sculptural art piece made by the both of them. It was really sweet. I wasn't expecting anything and it meant a lot to me. Thing overall are ok. Just one day at a time..... defiantly a little sore today too, lol.

 

[aquarius25]

Well went out again last night, but it was with friends that are a little older than us and ones my husband didn't PMO to, lol. I find it funny how much more enjoyable it is. I feel like the past doesn't hang in the back of my mind as much. I even felt sad, to a small degree, because these are the friends I am going to really miss! Knowing and really consciously experiencing this has gotten me very hopeful and excited for the move and change. I really think it will be a new chapter in our life, marriage, and for our family. I am so excited for what is to come.

I also talked to my husband about my feelings about not being able to share and he understood. Be bother have decided that honesty is the best. We will both continue to be open about our feelings and if it brings something up for the other we will communicate that too and we will work together to support each other. Neither of us have the intention of purposely hurting the other. Knowing that help a lot. The pain we both experience is cause intentionally and we can help and love each other through it .We are committed to each other for the long haul. He is doing really amazingly in his recovery and he genuinely  has done and is doing everything he can to repair our relationship. I have chosen to stay by him and forgive. So when I am upset I need to evaluate if this is because something recent or past actions that I have already forgiven him for. If that is the case, I remind myself of who he is today and focus on that. I tell him that the hurt is coming up and that allows him to be more supportive. As much as I hate this experience I can see how we are becoming closer than ever before. For that I am thankful.

 

[aquarius25]

Well things are coming along. Our inspection report came back and there was a few things on it that we will have to look at. Selling a house is so much work sometimes. I am trying to not get carried away with the stress but to just trust that God has a plan. I am really working on not hanging on to my emotions but rather to acknowledge them and let them go. It can be really hard sometimes. Today has been rough for no big reason just a lot of small things, but still I am working on moving forward and continuing to keep my chin up best I can.

 

[malando]

Yeah, house stuff is very draining!

I've come across multiple spiritual belief systems that are very strong on the idea of emotions being an ephemeral thing and the importance of not making them into monuments or thinking they are reality. They flow in and they flow out. It's important to acknowledge them and then let them flow out of you. Think of them like a river - you can't control what comes down the river, but you can let them flow by without grabbing hold of them.

You and your husband are doing great - I really can't see how you two could have handled things much better. Remember to acknowledge your amazing progress on a regular basis!

 

[aquarius25]

JKS, you are totally right. Also, OMG!!!! I would back probably pissed my pants if I was on that plane. You are one brave woman!

Malando, Thank you for your encouragement. I really appreciate your support and perspective.

I met with another friend this morning. She was again another one of the hubbies fav spank bank friends. Yeah, I have about 50 friends and literally I think only 5 that he didn't masturbate too. There are days when I wonder how his dick is still attached to his body with all the yanking on it he did, lol!!! Anyway she is going through a really difficult divorce and needed encouragement. I tend to be a bit of the "strong one" with my friends. Most of them come to me for support or advise, which is crazy cause I just feel like I am bumbling through life 90% of the time. LOL! Anyway it felt good to be an encouragement to her even though I was hurting I was still able to be supportive and not allow my hurt to hinder helping her. That felt good.

Over all things are good. Really excited about the move!!! We reserved the moving trucks and are trying to get the closing date moved up a week. We are just too excited! Even the kids are excited to move. That makes me really happy cause I was worried for them but they are handling everything amazingly!

One thing I have noticed that has bother me quite a bit is this forum. I know other partners have felt the same way. Honestly there is no solution but I have to be honest that the PA's with partners who choose to hide and lie and then say its for a noble cause like saving their partner from hurt...well frankly it pisses me off! Especially when they encourage others to do the same! I understand that each person needs to make that decision for themselves but to encourage another recovering person to live their marriage or relationship without integrity, lying to save face is cowardice and reflects low moral character. Why would you encourage and want someone to live that way? That is crazy! They act like it is the save their partner from experiencing hurt but in reality its because they don't want to see their partner hurt and know they are responsible for it. They don't want to take full responsibility for their actions and as such they are still living the same attitudes that got them addicted in the first place. That is not the road to recovery. Marriage and well frankly all relationships are founded on trust. They aren't living that. They are just being manipulative. Their partners are living in a false reality because of this. Anytime their wife says I love you  it is not too them, its to the illusion they have built. That is not love, its just sad. Its one thing to choose that for your own relationship because  you are too scared to take full ownership of your actions but to encourage another to do so as well?!? Sad, heartbreaking, and well, just plain pathetic!!!!!

Sorry for the rant. I feel better now, lol.

 

[malando]

One thing I have noticed that has bother me quite a bit is this forum. I know other partners have felt the same way. Honestly there is no solution but I have to be honest that the PA's with partners who choose to hide and lie and then say its for a noble cause like saving their partner from hurt...well frankly it pisses me off! Especially when they encourage others to do the same! I understand that each person needs to make that decision for themselves but to encourage another recovering person to live their marriage or relationship without integrity, lying to save face is cowardice and reflects low moral character. Why would you encourage and want someone to live that way? That is crazy! They act like it is the save their partner from experiencing hurt but in reality its because they don't want to see their partner hurt and know they are responsible for it. They don't want to take full responsibility for their actions and as such they are still living the same attitudes that got them addicted in the first place. That is not the road to recovery. Marriage and well frankly all relationships are founded on trust. They aren't living that. They are just being manipulative. Their partners are living in a false reality because of this. Anytime their wife says I love you  it is not too them, its to the illusion they have built. That is not love, its just sad. Its one thing to choose that for your own relationship because  you are too scared to take full ownership of your actions but to encourage another to do so as well?!? Sad, heartbreaking, and well, just plain pathetic!!!!!

Sorry for the rant. I feel better now, lol.

I totally agree! I let rip on a guy on the 40+ forum recently. He was acting like he was trying really hard and somehow thought he deserved credit for not using porn when he's out there using "hookup" sites to have sex with random women (and of course, browsing for women on Tinder is actually porn, IMO) Oh, you poor thing, it must be so hard for you! And all while claiming his "marriage is good" and how he has great sex with his wife. I find his attitude utterly offensive and no part of me has any sympathy for his bullshit. I just thought, the damn arrogance of this jerk! His wife has no idea what a creep she is married to, and he'll never give her the chance to find out. What a loser. Thinks he's special enough that she would want to keep hold of him, yet won't actually tell her who he really is. And of course, putting her health and potentially her life in jeopardy by possibly bringing home some vile STDs. Guys like this just make me want to reach through the screen and throttle them. It wouldn't even occur to a guy like this that his wife deserves honesty and to know who husband really is. 

That was probably the worst I've seen, but some of the stuff being posted is pretty disheartening. I don't read much of it anymore. I give the occasional ignorant fool a strong rebuke, but mostly I tend to follow certain people who I think really are trying and offer my support.

Rant over...

 

[aquarius25]

Malando I completely understand and agree, lol!

The weekend went well. We had some great family time. Went swimming with the kids and had a movie night. Ended with an epic game of Risk with our son. Another things we did was have "the talk" with the kids. We have had pieces of of the talk but we finally had the full conversation about sex with them. Initially I felt they were too young but quite a few of their friends know and I have heard kids talking. Our kids have asked questions a few times so we figured I would rather talk to them instead of have their friends "educate them". I think it went well. They seemed to be ok and they agreed that they felt comfortable talking with us. They were also totally grossed out that their parents have had sex, lol. They were a little surprised with how babies are made, lol. My hubby and I also decided to put blockers on our computers. He hasn't really needed them but I think while the kids are growing and starting to learn to google and starting to research topics of interest I think it is best. My daughter loves kittens, I really would hate to have her youtube that, lol!

 

[aquarius25]

Well things are coming along. The house process has had some unexpected hiccups and we are sorting them out. The stress has been building quite a bit. I have been struggling with my mood. I am not sure what exactly triggered it but I seem to be in a funk and having a hard time pulling out. I was talking the other day about my husbands progress and and about this experiences as a whole and my mind could help but reflect on the fact that I don't seem to be a priority to him. I know he loves me very much. I am not saying that he doesn't care about be. More the fact that over the years of our marriage there were a few occasions that I caught him and expressed  my feelings about it. It never seemed to be enough of a wake up call for him. It wasn't until it looked like he was actually cheating that he confessed to everything and and was finally honest with me. He is a great father, the fact that he could loose him family was the wake up call for him. I am just, I guess, sorta grieving the fact that I wasn't ever that wake up call for him. He has been my best friend and I have always regarded him as such and it just feels like while he was my best friend, I am realizing for most of our marriage I wasn't his.

Another thing that has bother me has been the security factor. We own a business together and i do play a role in it but he does a lot of the work. Mainly that is because I do a lot of the homeschooling and everything else to keep the house and life going. I am the one driving the kids to soccer and ballet and everything. Over the course of our marriage I have been picking up odd jobs and things while taking care of our kids. He is the one that got a career. I just feel very useless. If our business ever closed he can go get a job no problem. I don't have that. My best bet is some sort of minimum wage. It just makes me feel like I can't contribute to the same capacity. What am I? An over glorified babysitter? If I ever had decided to leave I really couldn't cause I don't have a way to support myself. That is a really terrible feeling. I have considered going back to school but it is never an option or a priority. Everything else takes prescient like the kids, business, family, my husbands job. I never seem to be a priority or the moment never seems to be the right time to invest in me. 

I know this feeling will hopefully fade but for right now it is just a crappy feeling.

 

[Firstbigstep]

I can empathise with how you feel.

It feels pretty crap to suddenly not be a parent, too. I'd give anything for my marriage to have worked. Sure, I can work my ass off and fund my family, but not being with my daughter is the loss of something no amount of money can buy.

 

[aquarius25]

Still in a bit of a funk but trying to pull myself out.

 

[Objectified1]

I can relate to how you feel With hubby being the one bringing in all the income. When we depend on them for everything and they are our everything and then this happens we suddenly realize how vulnerable we are and how much we really do depend on them. I felt devastated because it was like
He was my everything because I wanted it that way and I was his what? His something. I felt stupid for leaving myself in the hands of someone who obviously didn't seem to care or see the importance of my life. Who didn't appreciate the choice I made when I said yes and put on his wedding ring. It was a slap in the face. I gave up my life for him.  What did he give up for me? Come
To find out, not too much really. I felt like an obligation. Like I was just an option. The last one to be picked in the gym class sort of thing. Yea he might as well have me, but was I his everything? Not
At all. He wasn't an option to me. He was my everything. I wasn't just with him because it was easy. He swears that's not how it was or is but sure sends that message when he's jerking off to my sisters , the 18 year old at church & countless other people. A year and after after the start of his staggered disclosure & 3 counsellors later and we finally seem to be making a little bit of headway . Praying it continues.

 

[aquarius25]

So apparently my journal has become famous, lol. Some poor pathetic loser with no life has decided to post one of the comments here in my journal on a feminist hating site full of a bunch of misogynistic pigs to pick apart. I am not sure what is more sad the fact that  they have nothing to do but read and pick apart my journal? Or the fact that their entire forum screams compensating for so many things. Just as they laugh at me they should know I think they are pretty sadly funny too. O well, just another day in paradise, right?

Below is a link  and also before anyone posts here you should know that my journal is officially being trolled and I wanted to give a heads up. I understand if that makes anyone reading not want to post but I also want to say I appreciate when people do post here. I have really gotten a lot out of the support I have received from all of you! Thank you!

http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?20290-Feminist-Rant-of-the-Week!

(the link to my journal is in the #4 comment)

 

[Gracie]

So, we are all famous?  YAY!  Maybe they should know that we all have self esteem and we are not afraid.  I love the "rights" we have that they do not.  They forget they have their precious right to objectify all they want.  Perhaps they can't get a woman and can only fantasize!  Oh well.  I agree he must be a very insecure individual and cannot express his own thoughts unless he can argue.  Got to get that dopamine running somehow. 

We will continue to persevere as we work hand in hand with our husbands in our commitment to our marriages/partnerships.  This is how we know we will succeed it is a joint effort.  Sometimes it is a painful process but my husband and I have learned a lot about each other as we have worked on this addiction.
Power to the Women!

 

[aquarius25]

Gracie, I couldn't agree more!

 

[aquarius25]

Well things are coming along. Finally talked with my husband about my funk and initially it didn't go well at all. He kinda blew up, thus driving home the point I was trying to make, lol. Later, he calmed down and we were able to have a good conversation. I am glad we were able to talk about it. We will probably not do anything until after the move but I am hopeful that things will start to change.

On the house front we have had some major hiccups in the process as the appraisal didn't come back great so now we are trying to figure out plan B. O well, this too will pass. Just trying to take it one day at a time.

 

[StartingOffNew]

I mostly just read the first post and some of the replies. 

But I just wanted to say, thanks for posting this.  The understanding you've shown and love you have for your husband has really touched me and made me feel better about my own potential relationships with women.  It's nice to know there are girls like you out there. 

 

[aquarius25]

StartingOffNew, Thank you for the kind words. I am not perfect by any means, far from it! I have my rants too, good days and bad, but overall I try to have a positive attitude because in the end that will get you a lot further than a negative one. I really believe that we are each individually responsible for our own happiness .If the environment is bad it is your responsibility to leave. I don't believe in victims, even thought sometimes even I play that card here and there, lol. I know that I am choosing to stay in my marriage, I am committed to my husband, and he is committed to me. We are in this together. It will be a long road but ultimately we will be happier together than we would apart, even though I wanna ring his neck sometimes. 

On a totally different note to anyone reading this who is a crossfit person I just finished 17.1!!!! I am pretty excited about my performance. I finished the WOD in 16:10 rx! I know there are a lot of people with way better time but for me, I worked my ass off! And for anyone who has no clue what this is you can disregard it or google it. It was one hell of a workout! O and my time even beat the hubs, he he he! 

 

[StartingOffNew]

StartingOffNew, Thank you for the kind words. I am not perfect by any means, far from it! I have my rants too, good days and bad, but overall I try to have a positive attitude because in the end that will get you a lot further than a negative one. I really believe that we are each individually responsible for our own happiness .If the environment is bad it is your responsibility to leave. I don't believe in victims, even thought sometimes even I play that card here and there, lol. I know that I am choosing to stay in my marriage, I am committed to my husband, and he is committed to me. We are in this together. It will be a long road but ultimately we will be happier together than we would apart, even though I wanna ring his neck sometimes. 

I don't expect anyone to be perfect, and the fact that you're trying and care means a lot in my book.  And right, you're not a victim.  The fact that you're trying to make things work is a very proactive and non-victimy thing to you.  It speaks to your strength, not your weakness.  It depends on the situation, of course, but often the easier path is to walk away.