Excuses, rationalizations

[Gracie]

As a partner, I and the others frequently get frustrated reading some of the comments here at RBN made by PAs.  And, I am sure that the same is true of some of our comments to the PAs here. 

Most frustrating of all though is the information put out that it is not us.  We could be......whoever the hottest female of the moment is and it would still happen.  But then we read: 

IF ONLY.....

She had sex with me more often

She wasn't sick

  She wasn't going through the change
                                                         
She lost some weight

  She didn't just want vanilla sex

She would try the stuff I want to
                                                                                     
  She dressed up for me

She realized I am horny

She wasn't depressed

She hadn't just had our baby


All of these indicate that somehow we have manipulated the PA brain and done something that made the PA look at porn and women and then masturbate.  I do not understand why the taking on of responsibility for a conscious choice to PMO and then to go to great lengths to conceal it is difficult.  Even if we turn into your ideal fantasy, according to all I have read, and I have been reading for 6 years on this topic, that would not make a difference.  Maybe to you for a short bit.  But even the ideal fantasy becomes the normal. 

We get going without sex in a marriage because once the PA starts watching, we have no sex anymore.  In my case 3 or 4 nights a week with the tv and maybe (if I was lucky) once a week with me.  And even then I had to ask.  So I felt no desire for me.  We get that our body changes and hormones change.  Trust me it is no picnic to have your body and brain change as an aging female.  We are living those changes.  We need understanding not condemnation.  If you want us to try things, then make it fun not a demand. 

The only person anyone can change is themselves.  And we all need to be the best version of ourselves.  Blaming someone else for our choices, any choices we make, means we are not ready to change.  And in the process of our changing, the other will change.  Like I have said before, seek out your wife/partner/gf with the same interest and time spent as you do porn and your marriage will change.  I knew the entire time I was not first in his mind.  I did not know what was for awhile but I knew it wasn't me.


                                                                                     
                                                     
                                                       

 

[charles1989]

Hi Gracie,

I'm sorry that you're having to deal with all this. It most definitely isn't the woman's fault that the guy becomes addicted to PMO. I think it can be hard for people to self-criticize and take responsibility for the hurt they cause themselves and others.

I know firsthand that PMO addiction is an incredibly strong one and it takes a very tough person to break out of it, much less own that its their own fault. I've quit smoking cigarettes and gotten away from a pain pill addiction and while they were hard, they're not as hard as this. I am realizing that the PMO was being done to cover up other insecurities and emotional problems that I never knew I had.

I just hope that you can stay strong and have patience and not take the blaming and excuses to heart. I hope this helps.

 

[Gracie]

Charles,  I am not struggling at this time.  I posted this because as women read through the journals, they see quotes saying this is what experts say...ie. Doesn't matter about all these things he would do it anyway.  But most posts are the.  If only she....kind.  So I agree it is difficult.
Why would you want to watch your marriage fall apart?  You can also read and hear (podcast at top of partner page). That this is about depression, anger, isolation, communication.  Not sex.  But it seems men think that.   

 

[Kimba]

Well said Gracie

What's this Vanilla sex excuse makes me laugh haha so having sex with your hand is much more exciting than sex with a real person your so called SO your partner the one U have chosen to be your best friend, soul mate Wow does my head in when I read that. Hey get some integrity ...

Turn ur screens off stop making excuses stop waiting fervently till ur SO leaves the house or room, if u can't prowl the net with them in the room then u know it's not right listen to ur inner voice ...

 

[Emerald Blue]

Whatever the "excuses", it is actually possible to overcome many of them and if BOTH partners decide to do something about it. The biggest excuse of all is taking the lazy cop-out option of carrying on using porn and "blaming" the partner whilst not involving her at all.

My husband used the "unavailability" excuse when in reality he was the one who was never available and eventually I gave up on him. I was getting fed up with having to initiate every time and if I wasn't being turned down he'd have erectile dysfunction. So I could just as easily blame his lack of apparent libido, his habitual porn use and his impotence. But you know what? I didn't. I blamed myself, much to the detriment of my emotional wellbeing.

I am fortunate in that my partner never expected me to pornify myself. I wasn't going to fake up some porn routine. Porn is unimaginative and cliched, more like performing animals in a circus. I've experienced exciting and genuinely erotic lovemaking, and nothing in porn comes close. How can it? Porn is pantomime. It's not even sex.

My partner has successfully quit porn and has recovered his sexual functioning, but our relationship has been changed by the experience. Sometimes I fear we'll never have back what he trashed we lost, and that is a huge regret for me. I wish I'd taken action sooner. I didn't know porn was an addictive behaviour until d day. I thought it was his choice, his decision, what he wanted. It wasn't quite like that for him in reality.

So guys, quit making excuses and start making love. Do you really think you'll be lying in your bed at the end of your time on this earth thinking "I wish I'd spent more time watching porn"? Somehow I don't think so. But to have regrets about not spending more time with your loved ones because you were too busy watching porn... now that would be tragic.

 

[aquarius25]

Gracie, I love love love this! There are so many things I read on here from the men that are very materialistic and superficial. It feels like a chicken and egg debate over if porn caused them to think like that or if they were, to begin with, and porn just helps fuel it, lol. I read men focusing on just their dicks so much and coming up with all these reasons why it isn't working but not dealing with the root cause. Not dealing with their lack of ability to process emotions and so they have used porn and masturbating as a coping practice. Then to not take responsibility in their relationship about the real damage. It isn't even about the sex! It is about the deep rooted distance and lies they have told their partner and if they are going to be really honest, lies they have told themselves. So many men think if they can just do 90 days and "reboot" then everything will be fine. That is possibly the dumbest thinking I have ever heard! They need a life change! They need to pour into them selves and figure out what drove them to this behavior in the first place. Develop some self-control and integrity! Learn who they really are and know themselves. Then they would have no reason for these excuses and they would probably have a much happier life.

I know not everyone will agree with my thoughts, that's ok. I don't mean to offend but to just share a different perspective and narrative than the one I read so often on here.

 

[js2004]

I have read this post several times. Someone above made a comment about "living with integrity" and it has stuck with me.  I think it is dead on and really good take away.  I lose all integrity when I bring P&M into my life and marriage. I need to remind myself that this is what it is all about. Living a respectable life and not one of shame and guilt. This is a really good thread so thanks for the insight.

 

[Gracie]

Living with integrity is the goal.  Having been down this road, I can truly say it is about putting 110% into the marriage.  That is 110% by each partner.  Because without that focus, it is a difficult road.  It also takes 100% honesty.  And that is tough.

Talking and working through porn addiction is tough.  First and foremost the couple has to decide if they are going to work on it and through it.  Then comes some boundry setting to stabalize the shaky foundation.  Then comes the PA working on his life and thoughts and actions.  Along with that is the partner doing the same all the while she is in a pit of despair.  And then putting the marriage back together again using the little tiny bandaids they used to make. All the while hoping it will hold while the two work toward being one again.

Very scary.  There is no room for excuses and rationalizations at this point.  Either it was done or it was't.  There are no, "yes, I did it, BUTs". It is either happening or has happened or not. No one has physically forced these images to appear.  They were sought out and chosen. 

Men and boys here, step up, live your life with integrity.  Admit to yourself there are better ways of dealing with the things in your head.  Don't make excuses!  Dare to be different. 

 

[aquarius25]

Gracie, I agree! I would also mention that if a man isn't capable or doesn't want to or is unwilling to make that change then they need to be the one to leave. WHy should all the weight of that choice be squarely on her? I actually remember feeling really pissed about that part. Like he was the one pulling all this shit and then I have to make the choice to rip the family apart or not and be the one blamed. That is bull crap. Then there are the men who say they can't tell their wives. That their wives would just leave. Well, they deserve to have that choice too. By hiding and trying to "reboot" on your own just shows how you are not getting it. You are feeding the same pathways with lies and shame that you are trying to rewire. It's like drinking a smilfast shake while eating ice cream and expecting to get results. You will spend a lot of time torturing yourself with no real progress. At it's core marriage, any marriage demands honesty. Thinking for one second that you can go through a huge life changing experience like trying to deal with an addiction and think your spouse won't know something is different is ridiculous. Sorry if my opinion offends but lying is pretty offensive too.

 

[Gracie]

That is so true Aquarius!  I hope the men reading this little thread will realize that porn has helped say and think the excuses they use.  My husband actually thought I did not like sex!  The truth was I liked making love, no I didn't like just sex, with no love.

 

[Emerald Blue]

One of the more important goals in recovery for is the need to (re)establish a healthy sexuality for both partners, and that is going to be IMPOSSIBLE if one half of the relationship is addicted to internet pornography and is keeping the behaviour hidden and is deceiving the partner along the way.

Most partners want a sexual relationship but one that's honours their needs, desires and preferences, but too often we are denied the chance of exploring and developing our sexuality because we're caught up in a sexless partnership with someone who would rather stare like a zombie in front of a screen with his dick in his hand, hoping nobody's going to walk in on him? Is that sex???! Definitely not!

As partners, we are denied not only shared pleasure and orgasm, but sensuality, creativity, imagination, exploration, experimentation, playfulness, and fun. Instead our sexuality exists in a void because our partners have been caught up in the wank/rinse/repeat of a porn habit.

For some guys, it's a safe cop-out to stay in the porn bubble but there's nothing real about it. There's nobody else there. And you can guarantee that whoever you think is there with you, the reality is that the people who made that video clip are most likely to see you as just another sucker, just another mark. Porn cares nothing for you. Is that what you would describe as your authentic sexuality? Just another mark jerking into a Kleenex? And is that really what you want for the rest of your life? No? Why not take your first step back to reconnecting with your spouse? It might be one of the smartest decisions you're going to make.

 

[LeHso]

you're absolutely right

one of my old excuses is " my body had to release it for good anyway"

you can always find an excuse, that's what people with no hope do

 

[HumbleRich]

A partner deserves to know that her husband has a porn problem, but elaborating on the details of that problem is uneccesary and detrimental to fixing the marriage.  Building the marriage anew means coming together in love, relearning sexuality and its part in a healthy, happy marriage.  Unless the addict is watching illegal material (ie. Kiddy porn), it is really none of the partner's business.  Their business is that he overcomes the addiction.  It would be beyond pointless to know wjat be was addicted to.  I talked about it in detail in my journal because that is my own particular journey of growing self awareness and understanding of what the addiction means and where it came from.  I do not tell any of that to my wife because it does not help rebuild the marriage.  Just as I do not overly indulge in reliving my past myself, neither do I share it with her.  It does not help to overshare.  It just adds fuel to the fire, takes the focus off of rebooting, and adds to the drama.  Any addict is free to reboot how they see fit, but personally I feel.that the details are for him (or her) alone and not for the partner.  Only sjccess or failure should be shared with the partner.

 

[Gracie]

That is fine HR if it truly works.  However, many of we wives discover the use.  We know what has been looked at.  Not all of us ask for every detail, nor do I think they should all be shared.  But the topic of this thread is about what causes the PA to make what they are doing okay.  What are the excuses and rationalizations that motivate them to ignore family, friends, children and work? 

We, as partners, wives, have a right to know if there have been physical interactions due to health concerns.  Trust me, my husband and I working through this was the hardest thing I have ever done.  But had we not shared this time together and worked together, we would be divorced.  It was my commitment to him that got him through.  And it was his commitment to me that got me through.  I cannot describe the joy that we talk about knowing there are no secrets.

 

[Emerald Blue]

The way most partners discover they are in a relationship with a porn addict is when they unintentionally find the evidence. So most of us do know what our guys have been getting off to. In addition, most of us will have come into contact with porn in the past. It certainly won't be the first time we'd ever seen porn. We aren't naive. We know what porn is. It's the fact that our partners have developed a dependency on porn and have become unable to engage in physical and emotional intimacy is where the problem lies. Don't forget, there is one way to guarantee that we are no longer the partner of a porn addict, and that's quitting the relationship. Problem solved, eh? Obviously it's not that simple but ultimately it's up to us to decide whether we want to continue in a relationship where we're affected by something that the other decides is "none of our business".

At this stage, I could care less about what my partner watched because it's all garbage anyway. In the meantime I've educated myself about the porn industry as it exists now, and the wider sex trade, and I can say WHY I don't want to be in a relationship with a man who is using porn. That, and the fact that it's just production line fodder that presents women as fuck objects. And anyway, a guy masturbating to pixels on a a screen isn't sex. It's just a guy mastubating in front of a screen. Nothing remotely sexy about a man with his pants around his ankles jerking off into a Kleenex, believe me. It's not a pretty sight.

I don't think it's always a good idea for partners of porn addicts to see more than is necessary because it's very difficult to erase that imagery from one's visual memory especially when the experience may have been one of emotional upset.  Understanding the effects of repeated pornography use on the brain is something I recommend to any partner of a porn addict, and I recommend the explanatory videos on YourBrainOnPorn. Understanding the addictive process helps to 'depersonalise' the addict's behaviour.

Recovering a relationship from the effects of porn addiction is a very complex process and it helps that both partners know how addiction happens and what perpetuates it, and the emotional vulnerabilities that predispose people to developing poor coping strategies that often underlie many addictions. Partners also have their own healing process too, as individuals. And porn addiction can mask many other relationship issues too, sometimes as a consequence of one partner being addicted to porn, but there may also be longstanding issues that need to be examined that have nothing to do with the porn habit. Facing up to porn addiction is not for the faint hearted. It requires determination, tenacity, a willingness to learn, the courage to look inwardly and admit our failings, the resolve to put aside our immediate needs to retreat into our comfort zones for the sake of achieving our long term goals. Easy? No. But worth it, we hope. And despite it all, we still have to be there for each other.

 

[DaddyM1]

Hi, Gracie.  New here.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I can admit that my wife had nothing to do with my problems. 

She recently reached 40 and wanted to have the whole body make over done.  She did and she looks amazing.  Better than I've ever known her.  She looks like the women in all those videos I spent so much time looking at, and still, it made no difference.  In fact, I suspect that was the last straw for her.  Having gone through such a difficult and painful process to look good for us, and I'm still not present.  She didn't deserve that.  No woman does.

 

[aquarius25]

I really hope that one thing can be completely clear. I understand that my husband's porn use "had nothing to do with me". Men on her say that all the time and it drives me up the wall! I get what they are trying to communicate but they are being completely short sighted to think that their porn use was just about them. Whether intentionally or not their actions and behaviors have an impact on the person they are sharing their life with. I really think it would be helpful for them to really ponder and put themselves in our shoes. Imagine years of your wife/partner saying they love you they think you are handsome and amazing and at the same time sexually gratifying themselves to something completely different for years. Finding out that they are hiding and lying about it! I get that it is an addiction, I have read how addiction works. I know and understand that the addiction isn't about us as partners. We don't care, that doesn't make me feel any better about the situation at all! It doesn't excuse the countless amounts of orgasms that have been robbed from me as a result of PIED. I don't care that he says "it had nothing to do with me". That phrasing sounds and feels very dismissive. Like we aren't supposed to be hurt because it had nothing to do with us. Well for us, it had everything to do with us. It had a huge impact on our lives! It hurt to our core, our very soul. That response, well intentioned or not, doesn't help anyone. Stop saying it. Start to think about what it is like to be a partner and feel this life. My hope would be that it would be a profound realization that could help you through your reboot. Knowing and really understanding the deep hurt your behavior has created in another person, a person you care about. That should be an encouragement, in a long list of reasons, to avoid porn and create a better life.

This is just my personal opinion that I have felt and noticed.

 

[Gracie]

Aquarius, your words are so true.  There was some one on here that said their wife ran hot and cold.  She would be going along fine and then get angry.  He did not know why.  I tried to explain.  I don' t know if men get they used all their orgasms for a picture.  They used all their desire for a movie.  They used all their lust looking and scanning and searching.  They let all these women in their brain and in their homes.  And in that process, took away the intimate connection of our marriages.  The laughter, the joking, the sharing of problems, the sharing of dreams, the sharing of successes.  And the sharing of one another's bodies for what we thought was exclusive and exquisite pleasure. 

Our marriages are different now.  I still miss the blind trust and the easy thought that I was the only one in his brain.  I miss the early days of being his one and only.  He says that now and I know it is true, but now I have lived knowing that can change in an instant.  And that is what pops in my head.

 

[aquarius25]

For me when I hear "my addiction had nothing to do with my wife", that statement feels like an excuse. It feels like they are trying to separate their wife from this part of their life. I understand that is what they were trying to do but the problem is when you marry someone you become one. You can't just separate a part of yourself and not expect it to ripple to this other person. I hear men say this statement when they are trying to be "comforting". But something I have observed, at least in my husband, is this comes out when he is feeling uncomfortable with the feeling he is experiencing when he sees my hurt. He thinks by saying that "it had nothing to do with me" might somehow make me feel better, but it doesn't. It just shows me that he carried on an entire life without me, a life that took priority over our life.

It also feels like he is trying to tell me I don't need to be hurt or take his addiction to heart. That in it self if very devaluing of my hurt. I know this is an extreme example but when I was a kid the other high school in our town experienced a school shooting. I had friends that were there in the cafeteria when bullets were flying. There were reasons that the shooter did what he did. Some of the kids who were the victims had nothing to do with the shooter. They still experienced that aftermath and hurt. It may have had nothing to do with them personally but it became their life that day. Should we reassure those victims with "it had nothing to do with you"? Will that make them feel better? Trauma is trauma. It doesn't change that the event still happened, the hurt is still there. You can't ease it, you can't try to minimize it. All you can do is own it. For my husband, he has to sit with that discomfort and be present in it. By having this addiction and then marrying me, becoming one with me, sharing our life together. In doing that he made it about me too, consciously or not, it's a part of us.

Sorry to go on a rant. I apologize. This is something that just really urks me, lol.

The realization that his behavior "wasn't about me" is a part of my healing process that I get to discover and experience. It can't be said flippantly by an addict in an effort of some sort of reassurance. I am a victim of my husband's addiction. I am learning to regain my own strength, my own power in myself, and regain my very self. I am in a process. He doesn't get to throw statements and step I may not be at yet in an effort to hurry me through healing for his comfort. And yes, that is what was happening. He was feeling bad about his actions and my hurt was making him hurt. He wants to see me heal as fast as possible but healing doesn't work that way.

 

[chpcbr]

Sorry if this is out of context, but when I thought (or said) "my addiction had nothing to do with [the woman]", it didn't mean that she was not impacted, involved, afftected or hurt by it. It meant she was not in any way a cause for the addiction. Not her looks, not her body or boob size, not how frequent or "wild" sex was with her. In my case, addiction long preceded any sexual activity and yet it affected my latest (and by far most meaningful) relationship. In this light, I guess it's easy to see what I mean when I say it had nothing to do with the person in question.

Does it make sense to you?