I will make it -- Looking forward to taking my life back

Blondie

Respected Member
You can do it @First_step_thousand_miles, I know you can. I think it's great too for the discipline as you said.

I'm doing alright, feeling a little blah at the moment. I've probably been more stressed in this last month (if not since the beginning of the year) than I even have been. Just school work mostly and pushing myself out of my comfort zone. Yesterday I felt I was at the breaking point for a moment, but I took a breather and I pushed through it in the end. On one hand I'm very happy with myself doing things I don't feel comfortable with (much of it facing my childhood shit), but on the other, I'm ready for a break. I've also felt a few temptations these last few days, nothing too strong, but that put me in a bad mood too because I didn't have that problem a year out. However, I had to take a breather on that too, and remind myself not to get too hard on myself for relapsing. However, on the flip side, if I hadn't relapsed, this shit doesn't happen, or, is relatively small and of no consequence. Thus, it's a hard battle after seeing what "can be." After being there once before, I know how my brain is supposed to function and behave, but now I can see I backtracked and that's disheartening. What can I do but keep moving forward.

But that's the honest report. Thanks for asking.

Best
 

First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
You can do it @First_step_thousand_miles, I know you can. I think it's great too for the discipline as you said.

I'm doing alright, feeling a little blah at the moment. I've probably been more stressed in this last month (if not since the beginning of the year) than I even have been. Just school work mostly and pushing myself out of my comfort zone. Yesterday I felt I was at the breaking point for a moment, but I took a breather and I pushed through it in the end. On one hand I'm very happy with myself doing things I don't feel comfortable with (much of it facing my childhood shit), but on the other, I'm ready for a break. I've also felt a few temptations these last few days, nothing too strong, but that put me in a bad mood too because I didn't have that problem a year out. However, I had to take a breather on that too, and remind myself not to get too hard on myself for relapsing. However, on the flip side, if I hadn't relapsed, this shit doesn't happen, or, is relatively small and of no consequence. Thus, it's a hard battle after seeing what "can be." After being there once before, I know how my brain is supposed to function and behave, but now I can see I backtracked and that's disheartening. What can I do but keep moving forward.

But that's the honest report. Thanks for asking.

Best
Brother, I want to hear your honest feelings. The old school 'men don't talk about real stuff' is complete BS. I'm here for you and I want to hear the real shit.

Since I am in a VERY similar position to you on feeling 'set back', I completely empathize. I too am feeling spikes of temptation that I wasn't maybe about 6 months ago and sometimes staring at girls outside (trying not to of course) which had basically all healed up before I went down the rabbit hole of porn-like pics for 1hr+ binges (convincing myself as long as I didn't PMO it wouldn't matter...how idiotic in hindsight). And that's super frustrating. My penis feels like it's still working FAR better and I'm less concerned about that than I am about just the unecessary temptations which are interfering with life. So I get it my dude

All I can say is what helps me move past this feeling of being 'stuck' or 'going backwards' is pushing forward in other areas of my life simultaneously along with quitting porn. For me that is working out (losing fat, gaining muscle), enjoying fun experiences, sticking with meditation & cold showers, and immersing myself in work & trying to find my next job. All this varies person to person, but feeling like you're pushing forward on other stuff (even while quitting porn feels like it's taking a lot longer) I think puts one's mind at ease.

The other habit I'm introducing into my life is a gratitude practices. No need to journal, just when I drive home in the evenings I think about 3 things I was grateful for from the past 24hrs. Could be a great meal, a fun conversation with a friend, a phone call with fam, a great workout, etc and just immersing myself in the details of each experience. This is also science backed, and what it does is since you're basically looking for positive things in your life, it trains your unconscious brain to do the same which really boosts overall mood. Might be worth trying, it's from a book called The Happiness Advantage
 

First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
Day 657 no porn
Day 45 no MO
Daily meditation
Daily cold showers

Apparently had a wet dream (didn't remember it) because of what I woke up with in my pants (first time since starting this no MO cycle). There have been temptations but I've stayed strong. Onwards
 

First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
Day 661 no porn
Day 49 no MO
Daily meditation
Daily cold showers

Urges have been minimal to nonexistent ever since my wet dream. Likewise the urges to stare while out in public has massively gone down since then too, nice to see things are normalizing way faster than in the original reboot

Also the depressive symptoms / mood swings are 100% gone since a few weeks ago when I called it out. Definitely withdrawal symptoms related than anything else
 

First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
Day 664 no porn
Day 52 no MO
Daily meditation
Daily cold showers

Past the 50 day mark. My libido feels low to be honest, feels like a flatline of sorts. When I go out, I can recognize a girl's beauty but I'm not drawn to stare with a porn-like urge which is nice.

I can't help but get a little concerned that I'm not more horny since that wet dream but throughout this entire reboot I've gone through such ups and downs and my penis works fine.

I'm starting a meal prep delivery service next week -- despite strong turnout at the gym, my weight loss has stalled out for the past few months because doing takeout makes it impossible to know the real calorie counts. I'm going to get my body fat stuff scanned mid-April, I have 3 weeks until then. No excuses, I want to be at least 19% by then -- when I got checked in Jan it was 22% and I think I'm around that point now as well (maybe 21%). After that point, my goal is to reach 12-13% by end of June. I'm sick and tired of feeling sick and tired

I've also tentatively decided to start online dating apps (just Hinge and Bumble as those are more realistic girls vs. Tinder) by mid May or so after I finish my 100 days and get to the 2yr mark porn free
 
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First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
Double posting today but I wanted to get something off my chest -- I'm going to be vulnerable here. Male loneliness is SUCH a huge problem in our society, and guys I'm seeing out in the real world who are otherwise pretty successful (making 6 figures, living their lives, etc) have kind of given up on women.

One friend I know is I think 36 now and he's an engineer making 6 figures. He's completely work from home and he's in good shape as well. Aside from seeing cousins and some friends, he's also fairly active (hiking, rock climbing etc). His mental health seems fine as well from as far as I can tell. But he's basically given up on companionship, he fills the void with video games, anime, manga, fiction, TV shows, and porn. And there's so much sheer content out these now across so much stuff (we're not even counting social media) that he can fill any amount of time with all this. With all the AI girlfriend apps now, it's taken yet another step away from real human companionship. He doesn't use one as far as I know, maybe he's a bit too old to consider them (early adopters are likely 20-35yr old folks). Either way it's a sad state of where our society is headed towards, such escapism can fill pieces of the void but never truly fulfill us. This friend is not an isolated example by the way -- Even in my friends / family friends circle for guys I'm seeing who are 30+, over half of them are single and seem to have no interest in changing it (and when I say single, I mean like not even looking to actively hook up with women)

Why am I bringing up this up? Because I don't want this for myself -- it terrifies me to think that if I don't change myself into a quality man, that I will end up in 7-8yrs just like my friend. He's a good guy and if he's happy that's totally fine, but I cannot ever see myself being truly happy living like that. I'm 28 years old now. In 5yrs I'd love to be married and even have a kid on the way at least. That's not for everyone, I'm just speaking for myself here. I'm glad that the porn problem has mostly been fixed by this point and if I stay on the path it'll be fine on that end. That said, I guess I wonder if I can pull the type of girl that I want for a LT relationship and that's why I need to a) get more fit and b) improve my game.

I don't really think in terms of 'numbers' anymore but just to communicate this to folks, the types of girls who are interested in me I'd say at 5s. I know I'm not a 8/9/10, nor and I looking to get those types of girls anyway -- I'd be very happy with a girl who's a 6/7 (i.e. cute). Again I kind of hate ranking girls like this today (used to think it was so natural back in the porn days lol) but just to communicate the point a bit...but in that case, I also need to be in that same ballpark.

@Blondie has been right on the mark here in telling me to approach more girls. I've kind of used the reboot and being kinda fat as an excuse to wait, but I can't wait forever. Now I'm still talking to girls here and there, but not making new approaches which I NEED to do. That said, it would help my self esteem a hell of a lot more if I could get more in shape hence why I'm pushing so hard on this front. Either way, gonna stay off the apps till my 2yr mark to clear my brain up but going to try to talk to more women. Life is a confusing ride
 
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Blondie

Respected Member
Hey @First_step_thousand_miles.
Double posting today but I wanted to get something off my chest -- I'm going to be vulnerable here. Male loneliness is SUCH a huge problem in our society, and guys I'm seeing out in the real world who are otherwise pretty successful (making 6 figures, living their lives, etc) have kind of given up on women.
THIS.

It's a great thing to express yourself and tell it how it is. Props for doing so.
One friend I know is I think 36 now and he's an engineer making 6 figures. He's completely work from home and he's in good shape as well. Aside from seeing cousins and some friends, he's also fairly active (hiking, rock climbing etc). His mental health seems fine as well from as far as I can tell. But he's basically given up on companionship, he fills the void with video games, anime, manga, fiction, TV shows, and porn.
Yes this is a common problem. Of course, as you say, if he's "happy" then who are we to judge another man, but that is a legitimate question, is he actually happy? Furthermore, there is so much division between the sexes these days, both politically and culturally, that it's easier for many men (and women too) to just opt out and don't worry about it. Why put up with the bullshit coming from both sides, especially when you have such enticing "distractions"? Hating masculinity is completely accepted in our culture now, but then the other side (mostly online) hates women too and is equally as bad, which doesn't help the 80% of the rest of us (both men and women) who just want to have peaceful and happy relationships.
Why am I bringing up this up? Because I don't want this for myself -- it terrifies me to think that if I don't change myself into a quality man, that I will end up in 7-8yrs just like my friend. He's a good guy and if he's happy that's totally fine, but I cannot ever see myself being truly happy living like that. I'm 28 years old now. In 5yrs I'd love to be married and even have a kid on the way at least. That's not for everyone, I'm just speaking for myself here. I'm glad that the porn problem has mostly been fixed by this point and if I stay on the path it'll be fine on that end.
Don't be disheartened, there are plenty of women out there who are not on the far extremes, and plenty also, that are just as confused as us men, and thus, can be saved. I don't mean saved, as in you having a "savior complex" in a relationship (never a good idea) but just that they would be worthy in a good relationship, but are only confused by all this hostility between the sexes as we are.

I don't know if you're religious or not, but if you do wish to get married, maybe that's an option? Many religious women (though not always the case) are looking for marriageable guys more than "modern" women are. Thus, if you have no problem with church groups or church, maybe that could be a way to find someone looking for a guy. That personally wouldn't work for me, but it is an option. I think the most important thing when looking for a girl to marry would be if she hates her dad or not. That is something that no religion can "fix" and sets the groundwork for many women going to the "dark side" and being acceptable to the modern propaganda about hating men. Choose wisely.
That said, I guess I wonder if I can pull the type of girl that I want for a LT relationship and that's why I need to a) get more fit and b) improve my game.
What do you mean by improving your game? I've read much about "game" and have learned a lot over the years. Some of it being very helpful in life, and some, not so much, and most, just terribly bad advice. There's definitely a lot of bullshit out there, but it's not all bad. Just wondering what you mean by it.
I don't really think in terms of 'numbers' anymore but just to communicate this to folks, the types of girls who are interested in me I'd say at 5s. I know I'm not a 8/9/10, nor and I looking to get those types of girls anyway -- I'd be very happy with a girl who's a 6/7 (i.e. cute). Again I kind of hate ranking girls like this today (used to think it was so natural back in the porn days lol) but just to communicate the point a bit...but in that case, I also need to be in that same ballpark.
One of my favorite discussions. :cool:

To rate or not to rate, that is the question.

No matter what women anyone says, we all rate other people, especially, the opposite sex. It's in our biology to do so, we simply can't help it. It's literally a survival mechanism to search for the best genes and nothing more. And no matter what women say, they do it just as much as us men do, if not more ruthlessly, just look at Tinder statistics and how women look for sexy honorable men. Of course, I don't blame them for this either, it's in everyone's prerogative to get the best partner their looks and personality can get them, but I do have fun pointing this out to my Lady. We'll be watching a movie or tv show, and she'll say something very "unladylike" about an actor and I'll instantly point out to her that she does in fact rate men like us men do for women. Of course, she will retort to some feminine nonsense that the actor indeed is a "ten" but is just not for her or some bullshit like that. After many years of doing this, I would say the amount of "tens" she would never touch is about 80% of the male population. :cool:

All joking aside though, I agree with you that not looking at porn does "fix" this mindset a little bit, especially at the extreme end of the curve, however, when it's all said and done, we all do it and it's not a bad thing in my opinion. When it comes to what kind of girl you can attract though, that depends on many things, you're looks obviously being one of them. Most guys are average in looks (as most women are) and are hovering around a 5 on the scale. This is nothing to feel bad about, it's just the facts. Of course, only you can answer that question honestly. Most guys in my opinion are better at being objective about this than women are, but will bullshit themselves in other matters, say how big their cocks are or how "alpha" they are and bullshit of that nature. There are two sides to this discussion. One side (usually the people trying to sell you their products, think games advice, dating couches etc.) will utterly bypass this altogether and act as if someone looking like Jason Momoa would have the same affect on women as Sean Astin, but it's only their "game" that makes the difference. Anyone with half a brain knows this is bullshit and has seen firsthand (as I have) that this is not true. No matter how much "game" Sean Astin might acquire (and even if he got buff) he'll never have that raw sexual attraction that Jason Momoa gives to most women at first sight. Even if Momoa was a "beta" male, most women would not fucking care, especially if it was just for a night, and would gladly hook up with him, but Sean Astin, not so much. The other side, which is the looksmaxing side (Wheat Waffles on YouTube is one I'm thinking about) goes so far on the other side, where anyone who is not good-looking is practically fucked. Although part of me likes this approach, because it's trying to be honest and not bullshit people, I also find it too pessimistic for my taste, and it also denies that game or self improvement can help you. There has always been regular dudes with good-looking women, but of course they probably have something going on for them besides their average looks.

Thus, game is important, but looks are too, but it's not one or the other, and anyone who is average in looks can succeed with women, but should be realistic with their expectations and not bullshit themselves into thinking in black or white (porn doesn't help in this regard!) Looksmaxing will help you, as will game, but it's not going to fundamentally change WHO YOU ARE. A 5 is a 5 is a 5. And let's be honest, what is more attractive for a female 5 to do, act like she's a 10, or just be the best version she can be, that is, lose weight, take care of herself, and have a good personality? I have know many types of 5s in my life, and I would choose the latter over the former any day, because personality goes a long ways in the end.

Thus, for you, wherever you stand in this equation, if you can easily attract 5s, amp up you game and looks and shoot for the stars, which is realistically probably a 6 or a 7. A 6 with a great personality and a heart of gold is a great catch if your personalities work together, and a 7 possibly your "dream girl".

Never be ashamed for being a man and being able to fall "in love" by looks at first sight. This is being a man, and is congruent with our nature. However, always be on guard that you're not controlled by this impulse also, because it CAN set up false expectations (especially when using porn) and can lead you down a path of delusions and illusions.

Best brother

Blondie
 
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First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
Hey @First_step_thousand_miles.

THIS.

It's a great thing to express yourself and tell it how it is. Props for doing so.

First of all, Jesus Christ I love you man -- the fact that you took so much time out to thoughtfully respond as I'm going through this crisis of sorts means a hell of a lot to me. Responding to this message in two chunks as it's exceeding RN's character limit

Yes this is a common problem. Of course, as you say, if he's "happy" then who are we to judge another man, but that is a legitimate question, is he actually happy? Furthermore, there is so much division between the sexes these days, both politically and culturally, that it's easier for many men (and women too) to just opt out and don't worry about it. Why put up with the bullshit coming from both sides, especially when you have such enticing "distractions"? Hating masculinity is completely accepted in our culture now, but then the other side (mostly online) hates women too and is equally as bad, which doesn't help the 80% of the rest of us (both men and women) who just want to have peaceful and happy relationships.
You're right man, I don't know how 'happy' he really is. When I experienced depression at 23 for like 6 months, I don't think anyone knew it outside my parents and best friend (who I both told) -- who really knows?

100% true that men and women seem to be opting out of the dating market for various reasons. For men, I think many are tired of man-hating dogma, have enough alternatives (i.e. porn, only fans, etc), are happy with just casual sex. For women, a lot of them don't want to put up with gender norms (some of which persist) and their expectations have skyrocketed in an era of social media. I think men opt out more frequently than women but you're right that we see it in both. The crazy thing is you're right, fundamentally both side just want a happy relationship and yet why is it so hard to find a suitable LT match? I think it's just expectations, the formula Happiness = Reality - Expectations really does hold true

What do you mean by improving your game? I've read much about "game" and have learned a lot over the years. Some of it being very helpful in life, and some, not so much, and most, just terribly bad advice. There's definitely a lot of bullshit out there, but it's not all bad. Just wondering what you mean by it.
Yeah I realize this could be murky -- I'm not referring to seduction forum / pick up artist stuff haha. I'm just referring to having the confidence to chat up a random girl, keep a really engaging conversation going (when I don't know anything about her!) and getting her number. Whether at a bar or someone out in the real world (though this can be a bit tricky in 2024). Starting the conversation can be a hurdle but the bigger thing is how to keep it going and keeping her engaged. People have an 'on to the next' mentality these days so gotta be on top of it. That's what I'm referring to

No matter what women anyone says, we all rate other people, especially, the opposite sex. It's in our biology to do so, we simply can't help it. It's literally a survival mechanism to search for the best genes and nothing more. And no matter what women say, they do it just as much as us men do, if not more ruthlessly, just look at Tinder statistics and how women look for sexy honorable men. Of course, I don't blame them for this either, it's in everyone's prerogative to get the best partner their looks and personality can get them, but I do have fun pointing this out to my Lady. We'll be watching a movie or tv show, and she'll say something very "unladylike" about an actor and I'll instantly point out to her that she does in fact rate men like us men do for women. Of course, she will retort to some feminine nonsense that the actor indeed is a "ten" but is just not for her or some bullshit like that. After many years of doing this, I would say the amount of "tens" she would never touch is about 80% of the male population. :cool:
 

First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
All joking aside though, I agree with you that not looking at porn does "fix" this mindset a little bit, especially at the extreme end of the curve, however, when it's all said and done, we all do it and it's not a bad thing in my opinion. When it comes to what kind of girl you can attract though, that depends on many things, you're looks obviously being one of them. Most guys are average in looks (as most women are) and are hovering around a 5 on the scale. This is nothing to feel bad about, it's just the facts. Of course, only you can answer that question honestly. Most guys in my opinion are better at being objective about this than women are, but will bullshit themselves in other matters, say how big their cocks are or how "alpha" they are and bullshit of that nature. There are two sides to this discussion. One side (usually the people trying to sell you their products, think games advice, dating couches etc.) will utterly bypass this altogether and act as if someone looking like Jason Momoa would have the same affect on women as Sean Astin, but it's only their "game" that makes the difference. Anyone with half a brain knows this is bullshit and has seen firsthand (as I have) that this is not true. No matter how much "game" Sean Astin might acquire (and even if he got buff) he'll never have that raw sexual attraction that Jason Momoa gives to most women at first sight. Even if Momoa was a "beta" male, most women would not fucking care, especially if it was just for a night, and would gladly hook up with him, but Sean Astin, not so much. There has always been regular dudes with good-looking women, but of course they probably have something going on for them besides their average looks.

Haha I love this story, yeah we all rate man. I guess rating so quantitatively reminds me of the porn days where I would only PMO to a girl who was at least an '8' if not higher. Absolutely true that after quitting porn for a while, your scale normalizes where you find girls who are 6s and 7s attractive. Sometimes even 5s for me, but that's hit or miss IMO -- depends on the girl, even if she's a 5 and I think she's attractive, I guess that makes her higher on my scale even though society's scale would put her lower. Only scale that matters at that point is your own though

Asking girls what they find attractive in a guy I've learned is a 100% exercise in futility. They will deny to the death that good looks is the #1 filtering criteria, though I don't really understand why? Jason Momoa and Chris Hemsworth slay for a reason like you say.

That's why I don't really bat for a girl who's a 'societal' 9/10, the chances of it happening are tiny. And even if it does, the chances of a relationship are even smaller. My roommate regularly hooked up with girls who were 9s and even some 10s (he's a good looking buff dude), but even he mentioned they pretty much never talked to him afterwards. Only the 6s, 7s, and 8s did. They just have such a ridiculous amount of options. So as someone who would like a LT relationship it makes no sense. Of course money helps, but if I were a regular dude with a 9 then I'd feel pretty depressed she was just hanging out with me for my money -- what's the difference between that and hiring a sugar baby at that point?

Thus, game is important, but looks are too, but it's not one or the other, and anyone who is average in looks can succeed with women, but should be realistic with their expectations and not bullshit themselves into thinking in black or white (porn doesn't help in this regard!) Looksmaxing will help you, as will game, but it's not going to fundamentally change WHO YOU ARE. A 5 is a 5 is a 5. And let's be honest, what is more attractive for a female 5 to do, act like she's a 10, or just be the best version she can be, that is, lose weight, take care of herself, and have a good personality? I have know many types of 5s in my life, and I would choose the latter over the former any day, because personality goes a long ways in the end.
You're 100% right here, the girls I've talked to with a good personality are primarily 5s. I'm sure there are 6s and 7s as such and I just haven't talked to them, but at least with the limited exposure I've had to 8s and 9s in friend groups here and there, I've never really observed one that I could imagine being married to for the next 50 years. Which I guess makes sense given they don't need to have great personalities

Thus, for you, wherever you stand in this equation, if you can easily attract 5s, amp up you game and looks and shoot for the stars, which is realistically probably a 6 or a 7. A 6 with a great personality and a heart of gold is a great catch if your personalities work together, and a 7 possibly your "dream girl".

Never be ashamed for being a man and being able to fall "in love" by looks at first sight. This is being a man, and is congruent with our nature. However, always be on guard that you're not controlled by this impulse also, because it CAN set up false expectations (especially when using porn) and can lead you down a path of delusions and illusions.
Yeah 100% man, I'd be very happy with a 6 or 7. I just don't want to settle for a girl I think is a 5. Of course that means I need to be better too! Which is both a function of looks, personality and money to a lesser extent. So that's what I'll be working towards

You're right, I guess I did feel a little ashamed to be attracted to looks since I'm an average dude. I guess part of the way to alleviate this is to get better than the average dude to justify it in a sense. Porn really does set you up with false expectations man, the amount of dudes who are really just 6s who are having sex with 10s because they have an 8 inch penis is unfathomable. And after only PMO'ing to girls who are 9s and 10s after a while, you begin to expect that's what you deserve too in the real world. When in reality all you deserve is what you can EARN yourself by becoming a better man and not being afraid to make the approach

Thanks again brother, this was immensely helpful is sorting out some thoughts. You're the man! Love you
 

Blondie

Respected Member
The crazy thing is you're right, fundamentally both side just want a happy relationship and yet why is it so hard to find a suitable LT match? I think it's just expectations, the formula Happiness = Reality - Expectations really does hold true
I like this. I think it is the false expectations that fuck many of us up. Either from porn for us dudes, or for women, being able to see in the media or even get with a high class man (for a night) but then have to be "stuck" with a normie in marriage for the rest of her life is not a good recipe for success. False expectations can destroy us.
Asking girls what they find attractive in a guy I've learned is a 100% exercise in futility. They will deny to the death that good looks is the #1 filtering criteria, though I don't really understand why? Jason Momoa and Chris Hemsworth slay for a reason like you say.
I think the reason for this, at least evolutionary speaking, is that women throughout history have always been dependent on the ingroup for survival, and thus, any lesser man hitting on them, would need to be handled with tact (aka white lies) so as not to harm her or her offspring. Violence (especially sexual violence) for women is always a present threat, and even more so in ancient times, thus, women have learned to do whatever is needed to keep the "harmony" of the ingroup, and if truth be damned so be it. We can see this today with loser men and Nice Guys getting extremely hostile, or worse, violent, when turned down by a woman. They will call her a slut, a bitch or worse, because they didn't get what THEY wanted from her, and thus solidifying (if it wasn't alreadly obvious) where they stand in the hierarchy of men. Us men might not like it, and yes, some women go too far with it, but it DOES make sense from their perspective.
You're 100% right here, the girls I've talked to with a good personality are primarily 5s. I'm sure there are 6s and 7s as such and I just haven't talked to them, but at least with the limited exposure I've had to 8s and 9s in friend groups here and there, I've never really observed one that I could imagine being married to for the next 50 years. Which I guess makes sense given they don't need to have great personalities
I don't think I made myself clear here. I wasn't saying that only 5s can only have good personalities, but rather, using that as an analogy for average men (5s and 6s) pretending to be something that they're not (9s or 10s). I can see now I didn't make that clear though. For example, no matter how much self-improvement an average man makes (a man with average height, an average face and build) even IF he gets jacked he's going to come across to women like he's trying too hard IF he thinks and acts like somehow he is now Jason Momoa or something. He simply doesn't have the face, nor the height, and definitely NOT the status of a high flying man (no matter what some asswad online sold him). Thus also, a woman who is a 5 in looks (even if she's in good shape), if she acts like her shit doesn't stink it's fucking annoying as hell to us men, because we all know it's not true and that no matter how "nice" she might be, and no matter what her "female friends" say on FB :))), she is still utterly average and not a model. That's all I was saying. I would rather be with a humble (or realistic) 5 or 6 who takes care of herself and is sweet and plesant to talk to, than a 5 or 6, who has no personality, acts like she's a model, and denies any man who doesn't have the looks or status of Chris Hemsworth. Talk about delusional! That shit is insane, and unfortunately, I think much of the self-improvement craze that many men buy into these days, often comes across to women the same way as a 5 acting like she's a model to us men, because it comes across as fake and too try hard. Yes self-improvement is very important, and yes maximizing your looks and whatnot will help you out, but only to an extent, and at the end of the day, every man (and woman) has to deal with the hand they've been dealt. Those who handle this truth with beauty and grace (no matter their actually looks) are beautiful to me, and those who get jealous, nasty and try-hard, are very unappealing. Things to think about.

As regards to your thoughts that only 5s or 6s can have "good personalities" I totally disagree, though I do know what you're getting at. I've known many "hot" women who were beautiful both inside and out, my Lady included. Sure, they know their options are sky-high (how could they not?), and yes some of them are bitchy as hell, but many of them are not at all. And of course, referring back to my first paragraph, why do so many beautiful women have their "bitch shields" up? It's because of all the asshole and "Nice Guys" who have treated them like shit throughout their lives when they got "rejected," thus, they go out into the world closed off and "hostile" to men. What is more, some of the most beautiful women (not hot) often don't even get talked to by men, because they're seen as completely "other" and on top of the hierarchy of beauty, and as they say, it's lonely being on top. Of course, it must kind of suck to be in that place, and I honestly mean this, because unlike someone who's had to work their ass off to get somewhere in their career, or a 5 or 6 who's spent years in the gym trying to get "noticed" by men (think of normal dudes), they literally just won the genetic lottery and didn't really have to do anything besides just be naturally beautiful. I say this because, although I'm not a 10, probably a 7 (I hate rating myself!), I've see first hand what my height (6'4) does to many women (they've told me), and although many men might say Fuck you Blondie, are you really complaining about being tall, hear me out on this. Although I would be lying to say I haven't "liked" what my height has given me in regards to attracting (some) women over the years, still there is this part of me that almost resents it, because I didn't do anything to get this "advantage" and it was just random genetic luck (no one in my family is even close to my height). Thus, in my past dating life, I've had many moments (especially at the beginning stages) when I thought, do you even like me for ME, or is this just some fucking evolutionary bullshit your female brain is feeding you? Thus, being a "10" female with both a perfect body and face that was just handed to you, I can imagine must feel almost insulting when people (especially men) treat you differently even though you're just as human as they are. Thus, both my height and being between the "average" joe and the really "hot" man has given me a sense of empathy and perspective, and I can see (especially for a woman) that being on the top without really any effort on their part, could be a lonely experience, even if it has many so called "benefits." But I digress! Back to my point. In my own experience, it's the 6s and 7s who are sometimes the most "bitchy" of women, because they still have to work at it, whereas the real top shelf beauties just are, and every women knows this. Have you ever been in a room when a truly beautiful woman (not just hot) walks in? Every women is in awe along with the men, and the best ones will admit this and the bitchy ones will cut her down out of jealously. Women are even more in awe of female beauty and noticed it more than us men, though admitting this is another matter.

Thus, I think it's good for us men to put ourselves into a woman's shoes and see how it feels to be them for a change, either the utter hotty or the average girl. It's so easy for us to think of them as "other" instead of just seeing them as humans like us, with flaws, jealousies, and insecurities, even the "perfect" 10s. And I think a guy such as yourself who is out looking for a girl would most definitely benefit from doing this, maybe even more than getting "ripped", because the first step in being good with women is learning how to empathize with them and see the world from their perspective.

Just some random thoughts.
Keep killing it!
 
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First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
I like this. I think it is the false expectations that fuck many of us up. Either from porn for us dudes, or for women, being able to see in the media or even get with a high class man (for a night) but then have to be "stuck" with a normie in marriage for the rest of her life is not a good recipe for success. False expectations can destroy us.

I think the reason for this, at least evolutionary speaking, is that women throughout history have always been dependent on the ingroup for survival, and thus, any lesser man hitting on them, would need to be handled with tact (aka white lies) so as not to harm her or her offspring. Violence (especially sexual violence) for women is always a present threat, and even more so in ancient times, thus, women have learned to do whatever is needed to keep the "harmony" of the ingroup, and if truth be damned so be it. We can see this today with loser men and Nice Guys getting extremely hostile, or worse, violent, when turned down by a woman. They will call her a slut, a bitch or worse, because they didn't get what THEY wanted from her, and thus solidifying (if it wasn't alreadly obvious) where they stand in the hierarchy of men. Us men might not like it, and yes, some women go too far with it, but it DOES make sense from their perspective.

I don't think I made myself clear here. I wasn't saying that only 5s can only have good personalities, but rather, using that as an analogy for average men (5s and 6s) pretending to be something that they're not (9s or 10s). I can see now I didn't make that clear though. For example, no matter how much self-improvement an average man makes (a man with average height, an average face and build) even IF he gets jacked he's going to come across to women like he's trying too hard IF he thinks and acts like somehow he is now Jason Momoa or something. He simply doesn't have the face, nor the height, and definitely NOT the status of a high flying man (no matter what some asswad online sold him). Thus also, a woman who is a 5 in looks (even if she's in good shape), if she acts like her shit doesn't stink it's fucking annoying as hell to us men, because we all know it's not true and that no matter how "nice" she might be, and no matter what her

Absolutely right by the way there's a natural limit. I'm average height / average face. Build is getting better but personally I realize my upper limit is probably 7 if I really get super fit / dress well -- no delusions on that front. Though since I've done well with girls who are 5s historically and even a couple 6s even with my current 'build', I think if I really work on myself I can probably do better with girls who are 6s and 7s.
"female friends" say on FB :))), she is still utterly average and not a model. That's all I was saying. I would rather be with a humble (or realistic) 5 or 6 who takes care of herself and is sweet and plesant to talk to, than a 5 or 6, who has no personality, acts like she's a model, and denies any man who doesn't have the looks or status of Chris Hemsworth. Talk about delusional! That shit is insane, and unfortunately, I think much of the self-improvement craze that many men buy into these days, often comes across to women the same way as a 5 acting like she's a model to us men, because it comes across as fake and too try hard. Yes self-improvement is very important, and yes maximizing your looks and whatnot will help you out, but only to an extent, and at the end of the day, every man (and woman) has to deal with the hand they've been dealt. Those who handle this truth with beauty and grace (no matter their actually looks) are beautiful to me, and those who get jealous, nasty and try-hard, are very unappealing. Things to think about.
Lol too true! That's become a huge thing these days, since the average 5 girl will get 100+ matches on the average dating app in a month (if not more) and so she thinks she's more attractive. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to develop self esteem but it does get delusional at a certain point.

I do feel blessed that I'm at least 5'10. I think most guys wish they were taller, had a more attractive face, etc but like you said, we've gotta deal with the cards we were dealt. We can always strive for more, but it's important to temper our expectations as well

As regards to your thoughts that only 5s or 6s can have "good personalities" I totally disagree, though I do know what you're getting at. I've known many "hot" women who were beautiful both inside and out, my Lady included. Sure, they know their options are sky-high (how could they not?), and yes some of them are bitchy as hell, but many of them are not at all. And of course, referring back to my first paragraph, why do so many beautiful women have their "bitch shields" up? It's because of all the asshole and "Nice Guys" who have treated them like shit throughout their lives when they got "rejected," thus, they go out into the world closed off and "hostile" to men. What is more, some of the most beautiful women (not hot) often don't even get talked to by men, because they're seen as completely "other" and on top of the hierarchy of beauty, and as they say, it's lonely being on top. Of course, it must kind of suck to be in that place, and I honestly mean this, because unlike someone who's had to work their ass off to get somewhere in their career, or a 5 or 6 who's spent years in the gym trying to get "noticed" by men (think of normal dudes), they literally just won the genetic lottery and didn't really have to do anything besides just be naturally beautiful. I say this because, although I'm not a 10, probably a 7 (I hate rating myself!), I've see first hand what my height (6'4) does to many women (they've told me), and although many men might say Fuck you Blondie, are you really complaining about being tall, hear me out on this. Although I would be lying to say I haven't "liked" what my height has given me in regards to attracting (some) women over the years, still there is this part of me that almost resents it, because I didn't do anything to get this "advantage" and it was just random genetic luck (no one in my family is even close to my height). Thus, in my past dating life, I've had many moments (especially at the beginning stages) when I thought, do you even like me for ME, or is this just some fucking evolutionary bullshit your female brain is feeding you? Thus, being a "10" female with both a perfect body and face that was just handed to you, I can imagine must feel almost insulting when people (especially men) treat you differently even though you're just as human as they are. Thus, both my height and being between the "average" joe and the really "hot" man has given me a sense of empathy and perspective, and I can see (especially for a woman) that being on the top without really any effort on their part, could be a lonely experience, even if it has many so called "benefits." But I digress! Back to my point. In my own experience, it's the 6s and 7s who are sometimes the most "bitchy" of women, because they still have to work at it, whereas the real top shelf beauties just are, and every women knows this. Have you ever been in a room when a truly beautiful woman (not just hot) walks in? Every women is in awe along with the men, and the best ones will admit this and the bitchy ones will cut her down out of jealously. Women are even more in awe of female beauty and noticed it more than us men, though admitting this is another matter.

Thus, I think it's good for us men to put ourselves into a woman's shoes and see how it feels to be them for a change, either the utter hotty or the average girl. It's so easy for us to think of them as "other" instead of just seeing them as humans like us, with flaws, jealousies, and insecurities, even the "perfect" 10s. And I think a guy such as yourself who is out looking for a girl would most definitely benefit from doing this, maybe even more than getting "ripped", because the first step in being good with women is learning how to empathize with them and see the world from their perspective.

Just some random thoughts.
Keep killing it!

Ah no I also misunderstood here man. Agreed, I also wasn't saying that any girl above a 5-6 has a bad personality just that as you get into the higher tiers (8+) the percentage of those with good personalities is going to decrease (versus 5s or 7s) as a general statement. I'm certain there are really attractive girls with great personalities as well. Just in the sense that you don't need to have a great personality when you're that attractive, it can really be a lot more superficial. Not laying blame or anything, it makes psychological sense -- esp for the reasons you lay out

But you're argument also makes sense man, it is very true that a lot of really attractive women just don't get approached. I guess even when you're more attractive, you don't end up with no problems but just different problems.

I'll need to reflect on all of this some more man, you're right that mindset is probably like 70% of it. Thanks a bunch!
 

Blondie

Respected Member
Absolutely right by the way there's a natural limit. I'm average height / average face. Build is getting better but personally I realize my upper limit is probably 7 if I really get super fit / dress well -- no delusions on that front. Though since I've done well with girls who are 5s historically and even a couple 6s even with my current 'build', I think if I really work on myself I can probably do better with girls who are 6s and 7s.
Nice man. I know for myself, losing weight is a big deal. Just for you're own confidence too, no matter what anyone else thinks. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
Lol too true! That's become a huge thing these days, since the average 5 girl will get 100+ matches on the average dating app in a month (if not more) and so she thinks she's more attractive. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to develop self esteem but it does get delusional at a certain point.
Yeah it's crazy. I'm all for girls (and everyone) feeling good about themselves, but there still has to be reality in the equation. No one should be made fun of, but yet, reality still needs to be lived in.
I do feel blessed that I'm at least 5'10. I think most guys wish they were taller, had a more attractive face, etc but like you said, we've gotta deal with the cards we were dealt. We can always strive for more, but it's important to temper our expectations as well
That's great. That's above average in America so you're gold. I think in general (and this is all this conversation revolves around) women like men who are taller THAN them, but not necessarily tall. I've known some women who really preferred shorter guys, as in, if all things being equal, same face, same build, same personality, they would choose a normal height dude over a taller one. So yes, all of this is just trends and statistics which often lack nuance.

Keep killing it!
 

First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
Nice man. I know for myself, losing weight is a big deal. Just for you're own confidence too, no matter what anyone else thinks. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
Hundo p my friend -- I'm going to try one of these meal prep services (you get 50% off for the first order) to help with this. If it wasn't for the high protein intake needed for weightlifting, I'd just cook more often but alas. Ideally I'm hoping to rotate between services when the discount runs out haha, might be worth checking out
Yeah it's crazy. I'm all for girls (and everyone) feeling good about themselves, but there still has to be reality in the equation. No one should be made fun of, but yet, reality still needs to be lived in.
Really it's the bottom 80% of guys that suffer under this paradigm. Girls have their own problems too, not downplaying that. But online dating apps and social media have uniquely warped expectations for girls. Not complaining per se, just acknowledging the reality
That's great. That's above average in America so you're gold. I think in general (and this is all this conversation revolves around) women like men who are taller THAN them, but not necessarily tall. I've known some women who really preferred shorter guys, as in, if all things being equal, same face, same build, same personality, they would choose a normal height dude over a taller one. So yes, all of this is just trends and statistics which often lack nuance.

Keep killing it!
Yeah it's funny 10yrs ago the avg height was 5'10 and now it 's 5'9 haha, I guess that's pretty lucky. I think 6 foot to 6 foot 4 is probably the perfect sweet spot, but just being avg height should be enough to do decently well. You are indeed right, IRL I feel like girls are way less choosy and you often see short guys doing fairly well. Maybe some of it is just a meme too given how much we all talk about height being important.

Thanks my man, much love!
 

First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
Day 669 no porn
Day 57 no MO
Daily meditation
Daily cold showers

Making some fantastic progress on lifts recently, getting stronger all around. So with good protein consumption, I'm sure I'll pack on muscle at a decent rate. Main goal now is to make sure I simultaneously lose fat! Starting a meal prep service tomorrow so hopefully that helps

Otherwise, trying to be really deliberate about only having 1 cheat meal per week (often ends up being 2 though). Going to keep on trucking. I do have some libido (it's not flatline / dead) but also doesn't feel baseline exactly ever since that wet dream. Onwards
 

First_step_thousand_miles

Well-Known Member
Day 670 no porn
Day 58 no MO
Daily meditation
Daily cold showers

Can't wait to get to Day 100 no MO. I'm not having big urges to MO per se, but would like to MO again soon frankly. I guess I'm just prone to worrying if it's gonna work again, which is kind of dumb because every time I've worried about it my MO's have been working out just fine -- just gotta look back at my posting history to prove it. Urges are minimal
 
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