Dealing with Shame, PIED and Addiction!


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All good, and of course you are right. Sometimes I do need telling, as I can't seem to always tell myself lol! Bloody brains. You know what, that comment made me think and you've hopefully pulled me out of a tailspin that was going to relapse, so thank you, seriously

Going to go read an ebook about porn addiction in the bath and try to get more serious again
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reading sexy stories, which is just stupid. It isn't porn but fires all the wrong cylinders.

I think that is incorrect. For most of my addiction i was hooked on masturbating to gay chats and erotic Craigslist casual encounter ads back when they were still available. I would also go to the comment section on websites in the same genre and that was actually way more exciting to me than the video was. I would wager and say that 50% of my PMO session were only using chats or words. Erotic stories/ads/chats are still porn. Abide by Gabe Deem's saying : "If it aint real, NO DEAL."


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Fair point. I hadn't really considered words as porn but can see it - for me it's not the same or as damaging as endless videos or images but I get it. Makes me wonder about chatting with a certain woman I meet sometimes - as its a real connection but still words. Anyway, no M/PMO happened, so my streak is intact, but lessons learned. Although it was teasing the pathways a little, I actually found myself feeling aversion to reading, and closed it in disgust (at the material and myself)

Read a good book last night in the bath, and feel more focused and committed. One interesting thing this book was discussing was how it's fear of withdrawals, fear of the battle, and our (mistaken) beliefs about porn which creates a lot of stress. I can see this, that I have this belief that it's going to be hard. I need to remember that porn doesn't fill any voids but creates them. In addiction relief is an illusion because it only relieves the tensions/feelings porn has caused. This fear shows the attachment to it - so if there is a belief that I need it or want it, there is a belief there that it either helps with my feelings or gives me something good. It doesn't and we all know that. I get if I am finding it hard perhaps I need to seek and destroy the unconscious belief that is driving the craving..

Difficult night at work supporting someone in deep paranoia, who can actually be quite high risk, so I have a feeling its going to be a tired day at home later but will try to get some sleep and then see a friend and just relax, do some reading and meditation if I can - or just movies if thats how it is.


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Good job on Keeping the streak going, when you are feeling tired remember your reasoning center is a bit weaker so try not to have any P accessible devices nearby during that time, let us know ow it goes buddy


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Thanks - all good today, about to go and have lunch with a friend who's also trying to do this. I wrote out all my beliefs about porn, and later will analyse them and prove they're bullshit. I might share it later as it might help someone else..


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Thanks - all good today, about to go and have lunch with a friend who's also trying to do this. I wrote out all my beliefs about porn, and later will analyse them and prove they're bullshit. I might share it later as it might help someone else..
Sounds like this friend may be a good accountability partner


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36. Had a good day yesterday, had lunch with a friend and we talked about porn, even if it got a bit awkward when two women sat near us. I feel self conscious discussing this stuff, which shows me I still care too much about what other people think. Then we ran into another friend and ended up watching football in a pub, something I haven't done for many years, but really enjoyed it. It turns out he has been struggling with porn too. It is a pandemic! Got home, watched the Top Gun films, and then slept at a reasonable time.

I have found myself getting quite emotional watching love scenes, and I think it's finally hitting home how much porn has taken from me. Seeing the first movie took me back to my childhood and teens, when i had a great body and all the confidence, and I really felt sadness, about time, about how life turned out, about addiction. I wondered whether I would be alone, whether I would have had a family, whether I would have lost my confidence in being able to do the most natural act of love and attraction. I am not into self-pity, but in this case I think this is positive - as the more pain I can associate with it the better.

The book I was reading on Sat (a little ebook I found called 'Quit Porn Easily') was saying how it is our beliefs that keep us trapped, and I have been reflecting a lot on this. I am writing down all the beliefs I have about porn, which are the drivers to using it, which make recovery so hard. One of the main ones is that it is pleasurable, and it is quite hard to deny that, but I am working on it. My best work so far on it is that it may feel pleasurable at the time but erodes your ability to find pleasure in life and robs you of the deeper pleasure of love. To list the consequences of porn addiction. Any input on this would be appreciated - I feel that if these beliefs can be put in the spotlight and shown to be untrue, then cravings will diminish.

All the other beliefs were quite easily proven untrue, so I feel that the work now is to really take stock of the damage - and undermine this belief that there is pleasure by accepting all the pain. The more pain and the less pleasure I can associate with it, the less likely I am to want it, or turn towards it in weak moments.


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List of Beliefs - and kinds of thinking that lead to relapse. I want to add to this so if there are any other beliefs I haven't found, or ideas on how to undermine them I am all ears:

Porn is pleasure

Ok so it undeniably is a massive dopamine hit, but it robs pleasure from normal life and real things. It takes energy away from creating real achievements and connections. Good sex is more pleasurable, putting energy into real achievements is more rewarding. It’s a kind of false pleasure

Listing all the consequences of porn unwinds this too – the loss of love, the loss of confidence, fitness, drive, motivation, virility, and natural masculinity.

Huge dopamine binges lead to crashes where the temptation for that dopamine is magnified, and created by past use. The more time between where I am at and the last binge, the more dopamine flows into life in natural and beautiful ways.

I deserve pleasure

Hmm, do I? Is this just entitlement? Do I not deserve real pleasures as above? How about deserving love? It is a reward – but only relieves the tension created by past binges.

Variety, excitement, different women

Ok sure, but this creates a sexual machinery that cannot be satisfied by one woman and normal sex. This is the main dopamine trap, what keeps it lighting up in unnatural and addictive ways. I am sure we have all seen YBOP, and how the sight of a naked woman lights up the brain and makes us feel successful, so an endless parade of naked women does something unique and powerful to the brain. This is the main cause of struggle with real sex..
At the end of the day it tricks the brain and in reality I am sat alone by a screen and not having sex with lots of hotties. Also love and intimacy are far more exciting and rewarding in so many ways.

It helps with low mood, fatigue

Although it can be a pleasant distraction, and can help us avoid or numb or dissociate, it’s actually a major cause of both low mood and fatigue. Each time I use it creates more of both, setting up greater desire for it. It’s a terrible coping mechanism, and no feeling needs to be feared or avoided, they pass and are part of life’s richness.
There are far better ways to improve mood; nature, exercise, friendship/connection, music, meditation, gratitude. And there is always more rest and sleep..

I enjoy the trance state

I do. But there are plenty of other ways to enjoy trance states which are healthy and add to my life rather than take away.

I enjoy the edging and running the energy

I do. But I can do this through tantric masturbation and sex. I know I can do the former, and hope the latter will be absolute fireworks one day!

Relieves stress, anger etc

Really it suppresses them, or distracts from them so that they grow and become toxic under the surface. Of course the massive dopamine helps change state, but there are other ways. Anyway it is far better to feel, release, and process. I know how.

I am going through a difficult patch, and need this crutch..

I am, but that is a bit of an interpretation and a story. Getting free and clear gives me more energy and power to change my life. It isn’t a crutch either, and causes a lot of the problems that make me feel that life is tough right now.

Giving up is hard..

It has been hard, but possibly only because of all these beliefs about it. It shows that I think I am giving up something good, that I love, which is all false. On analysis there is nothing worthwhile to give up. It gives nothing, and takes everything.

I cant do it

An easy thought which often precipitates relapse. Stinking thinking. I can do it, and have beaten other addictions. I know others are doing it from the journals so it is possible. I have to have faith, and belief that I can do it.

I’m uniquely screwed

Stinking thinking. ‘I am special and different’ so it is especially hard for me. Poor me. We are all screwed up in unique ways

I am weak

Porn has made me weak around porn, I am not weak. I can replace this thinking with new stories about strength.

I am fucked anyway with relationships and life so..I am unlovable

Stinking thinking. Excuses. Stories. Not true, brain trying to set up relapse for dopamine. We are all lovable, full stop.

Its harmless compared to…(alcoholism)

It seemed like that for a long time, but we all know the harms it causes. It is more pernicious and subtle but the damage is real. Ok the state I got into due to alcoholism was far more dangerous and obvious, but I can also see that if I fail to sort porn out it could beat me down enough to relapse. When I look at the cold hard facts, it is just as harmful, and I need recovery just as much.

This addiction is too powerful, too difficult to stay clean

More stinking thinking. All the more reason to do the work.

Porn is easier and safer than relationships..which are a threat to alcohol recovery, and cause pain etc

Some truth to this – the amount of times relationships and pain have nearly led to alcohol relapse. Sobriety did make me afraid of intimacy and rejection and breakups. But porn takes away the choice, takes away the ability or desire for relationships. I have proved I can cope with pain and breakups without relapse anyway, so its just another story. I either risk pain or end up a lonely old man still trying to get it up for a laptop..ffs lol. PIED robs my confidence (I really hope its PIED and not ED but time will tell) and being unconfident and not having great penetrative sex undermines relationships and makes them more likely to fail. I have to believe rebooting will restore that confidence and virility.

Edging to porn is more satisfying than sex, and gives more pleasure

Only because porn has made me shit at it.

With porn I don't have to face that, or the anxiety and fears around it. I have painful and humiliating memories I attach to sex, but with recovery and inner work this will change, and with the right partner all this can be healed. Right now I can see its all about how much pleasure and pain I associate with porn as opposed to love and sex.

I am not in the right place for a relationship anyway

Because of porn.


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Those are some really good thought through reasons and beliefs, thank you @Nico.

I think the biggest one for me, and something you've touched on throughout your list, is just the ability to see and to analyze what pleasure truly is for us, and to differentiate between long and short term goals. If my long time goal and definition of pleasure is to be able to have penetrative sex with my partner, than porn is simply NOT pleasurable to me, because it will rob me of this great human pleasure. It doesn't matter how much "fun" it might be in the moment, because, since I've alreadly established what fun is for me, then I know going forward with it, will rob me of my great desire, real sex. I think this is key, and learning how to differentiate between those two has really helped me this time around, thus, whenever I find myself mentally lost, I return back to the basics.

Your point about variety is good, and I've had to filter that one through this process as well. One of the hardest things of a long term relationship for me is being monogamous, and it's one of the biggest reasons why I used porn in the past. Since her and I didn't think porn was cheating, it was a "perfect" solution for my frustrations. However, I've had to put this desire through the looking glass of my predetermined hierarchy of values, which is, I would rather have a functional dick with one beautiful woman for the rest of my life, than a false sense of "variety" with many. And if for some reason this doesn't work out between her and I, or maybe she wants to spice things up in the bedroom or whatever, either way, I'll be ready for the challenge. Nevertheless, a functional manhood is considerably higher valued than some weird idea of "variety", especially if it's a complete illusion. At least for me, this seems to help. I'm finally learning that what I haven't thought through beforehand often gets me in a time of desperation. Better to know my core values before the going gets rough.

I'm also relearning this with food. I've lost a lot of weight over the last year and half, (40 lbs.) but over the last the semester, especially the Christmas season, I've gained some of it back. Over the last couple of weeks, I've been having a hard time getting back on track and moving forward, and it's all for the same reasons as above. Last night I realized I need to go back to the basics and figure out my values about food. Is food only meant for momentary pleasure, or, can other pleasures be derived from longer terms goals, like, health, longevity, and a good body fat ratio, etc.? Either way, I've lost my sense of what I believe about food over the last while, and it's time to get back on track.

Best to you, and thanks for that great in-depth view of things.


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Thanks Blondie, you make great points, and spot on about our goals and definitions of pleasure. A part of me wonders whether it really can be that simple, but I feel so wonderfully clear after doing that piece of work.

I can really relate to the food thing as well, and am in the same boat. I lost about 60 pounds since last summer, and have also relaxed my efforts a bit recently. I guess it boils down to self love as well - being healthy and fit. I find it hard to look after myself on this level, always have, and take shortcuts like meal replacement drinks because its easy and doesn't involve all the shopping and prep a healthy diet does. I will have to find this in myself at some point!

Best to you too brother :)
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A part of me wonders whether it really can be that simple, but I feel so wonderfully clear after doing that piece of work.
This is a good point. I think that's another paradox of recovery, on one hand, it IS relatively simple, and sometimes we make it too hard on ourselves, but on the other hand, each of us has to figure out our own reasons why we do the things we do, and this can take time and many "failures". Furthermore, no book or podcast can help you with that, which is why there's isn't just "one" method to successfully get over porn, but many. Each of us can help each other, however, each of us must also find our own way as well.

It's like we're hacking our way through a vast jungle twenty feet apart, where each of us can speak and hear each other, but the topography and challenges below our feet are different. One's advice might not really match the other man's current challenge before him, however, he can give him encouragement and some advice on what he has experienced beforehand to see if it matches up.

Best to you. :cool:
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This is a good point. I think that's another paradox of recovery, on one hand, it IS relatively simple, and sometimes we make it too hard on ourselves, but on the other hand, each of us has to figure out our own reasons why we do the things we do, and this can take time and many "failures". Furthermore, no book or podcast can help you with that, which is why there's isn't just "one" method to successfully get over porn, but many. Each of us can help each other, however, each of us must also find our own way as well.

It's like we're hacking our way through a vast jungle twenty feet apart, where each of us can speak and hear each other, but the topography and challenges below our feet are different. One's advice might not really match the other man's current challenge before him, however, he can give him encouragement and some advice on what he has experienced beforehand to see if it matches up.

Best to you. :cool:
i love this jungle scene comparison. Made me smile, its so accurate. We fight a tough battle but we dont walk alone.

@Nico I really like your list of beliefs that lead to relapse. I feel all of them. Writing these down and being aware of them is a night and day difference. You are going the right way


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Thanks, I like the jungle analogy too..and sometimes the path one man has hacked makes easier going through some parts for someone else. I can think of quite a few who've made my hacking a little easier including many on here :)


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I know I’m on one at the moment and it is TLDR, but I wrote a long rant at myself and a total annihilation of the belief that porn is pleasure, and am sharing it because it might help someone somewhere:

Enjoyment. Pleasure. I enjoy and get pleasure from dance, skygazing, time in nature, meditation, good conversation, snowboarding, and all kinds of things.

Yet when i go without these things or am not doing them I don’t crave them. Ok I do crave dance sometimes as my body loves to move. But a night without it doesn’t fill me with dread and I do not have a fear of relapsing into a dance. So there is a huge giveaway that porn is diffrent,, it is not a pleasure, it’s an addiction, a serious that I fear the battle with the temptations.

How can something like this be described as pleasure? It’s obviously got me trapped in a vice..because the dopamine is too much, like crack. I am grateful for life's pleasures, but not for porn. Perhaps one day i will be grateful for this inner work and what it made me become, just like i feel about alcoholism now.

I don’t look back in life and wish I’d never come across dancing, or loathe the effects of dancing, or beat myself up about it. Dancing hasn’t stolen my power and energy and virility and confidence. It hasn’t turned me from a natural sexual being into a sexually deformed hermit and frankly a wanker.

My enjoyment of music or sunsets hasn’t destroyed relationships or made me so thoroughly disgusted with myself and who I’ve become. That hasn't taken away the true pleasure of love and connection and sex. Pleasure is innocent and joyous, it is our birthright.

So how can I even try to relate porn to something innocent like pleasure. Porn IS pain and suffering and pure daylight robbery.

We aren’t giving up something pleasurable..we are freeing ourselves from taking poison, enjoying something doesn’t enslave you unless it is poison.

If my future self had sat down with me at 23 or whatever age I started finding internet porn and stories, and explained what would happen, would I get so excited to look at it? In what possible way is something that destroys your life believed to be a pleasure. It’s only possible in the delusions of addiction surely. It’s a belief that when thought through is so obviously based on lying to myself or blindness.

I think of my ancestors sometimes, and how all their struggles to survive and mate have culminated in’s humiliating but I have to face it. What would they even say? If they’d had visions of the future of their bloodlines would they even bother!? Would they agree that this twisted and deformed mimicry of our evolutionary urge was a fucking pleasure??

So enough with the bullshit of believing it’s pleasurable. It’s pain and poison and humiliation. It’s not something I remotely want when I give it a bit of thought. I want change, I want freedom, I want love and I want my ancestors to celebrate that with me.

Sure it’s a uniquely and elaborately crafted trap; the likes of which perhaps they couldn’t imagine, like spiritual warfare on masculinity. So perhaps they might see me more kindly, but the thought of them looking over me as I regularly and mindlessly jizzed to gives me pain but it also gives me strength to change.

It is just a habit..

Habits sound innocent too, like ‘he’s in the habit of having a nice cup of tea when he gets home..’ or ‘he has a habit of kissing his wife to thank her for being alive’

‘He’s in the habit of coming home and having a nice smash his sausage sesh for six hours and exploring depths of depravity he never even dreamed of ’ doesn’t quite sit the same does it!?

It’s not a habit. And it’s not as hard to break as I like to think when I’m subtly setting myself up to fail. It’s an addiction and a poison and giving up is do or die. It’s not fun. It’s not something to look forward to like normal pleasures, or fondly reminisce over in later life..’do you remember that beautiful moment we shared, dear computer, with the shemale and the nun and the dwarf?’

I’m sick of it. I’m sick of getting serious about this addiction, posting my absolute resolve, my theories and spiritual solutions only to have to face the humiliation a few days later of having to say I fucked up, yet again. Or I just was tempted to read a story..

How can such a thing possibly be a pleasure when I throw so much at trying to change it and still find my resolve crumbling? What’s pleasurable about something that’s eaten my self worth, my confidence and even my manhood? That’s taken away my ability to enjoy life’s true pleasures, hell, made me even fear them!?

So why would it seem like a sacrifice, like I’m denying myself pleasure. That belief can properly go fuck itself. It’s the opposite that is true, end of. Please let this be the sound of the penny dropping at last..because it so much easier to put down something painful.

Ancestors please forgive me for letting you down. Lend me your clarity and strength. Help me become who you hoped to see in this world, in these strange days. God please give me the gift of freedom, of feeling proud and grateful to walk this Earth, of the ability to love and be loved, of drive and purpose and vision.


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Thank you for this @Nico, that really hit me hard. This part in particular especially moved me, "(Porn is) like spiritual warfare on masculinity" This is spot on and absolutely true. I know women can and are addicted to porn, so I'm not denying that reality, but the majority of those who struggle with this modern warfare are men. Porn seems to be fine-tuned for our destruction.

Porn is like a bullet to the head of the masculine spirit. But it doesn't have the honor to shoot you in the head, it prefers to butcher you, piece by piece, like communists scum in the jungles of Cambodia. Porn promises us men everything that we've ever dreamed of, but then takes it all away and perverts the spiritual essence of our masculine core. You want variety in women? Here's porn. You want "10s" that you could never get in real life? Here's a whole harem of them. You wished your wife would respect you more and give you sex? Here's porn. Too afraid to talk to that girl in the coffee shop? Here's some porn to make you feel better chump. Are you too afraid to have that hard conversation with your wife? Here's some porn, no need to be a real man and have a real conversation. In fact, there's really no need to be a man at all!

We say that porn makes us men lustful, but in fact it's the other way around, porn takes the lust right out of us. There is no lust for life when your hands are stuck in your pockets. There can be no holy lust for your Beloved, when you're knee deep in digital harems. There is no scared lust and appreciation for feminine, when all you care about is yourself and getting your rocks off again. There is no zest for life, when the only thing on your mind is the next porn session at 3 o'clock, and if you get "lucky", you'll fit another one in after dinner as well.

Yes, the world needs us men to lust again. To lust after life.

Sorry Nico, your post just got me all riled up! :)

Bless you


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No apology needed, sometimes its good to get riled up - I feel all riled up about it at the moment because I need to be. Loved what you wrote about how porn slowly reduces your engagement with the feminine, and life, and seems to solve or soothe feelings. It flattens us, literally. Feeling sad or angry about this? Here's porn. If Skynet were real, they wouldn't need Terminators any more as we can be kept in line and passive with algorithms and porn!

37. That was a long and intense day - spent some time before work with an AA friend who is having a breakdown, then work, but mainly reading and writing about porn. I think I need a dose of anger, and yes, destroying delusion and beliefs leaves me feeling really clear and on point. Removing the reasons I think I want porn seems to have changed something for me. Now I need to make sure I don't lose that, in tired or weak moments.
I've got a few ebooks to read, and they really help. All this was started with an ebook, and they get me thinking the thoughts I need to get clean. I am now reading the Easy Peasy method, and ignoring the part that says you should keep looking at porn while you read it! There's also loads of journals on here which I want to read through.


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The days tick by, and I realise I've got a reasonable streak by my standards. I really want to say there's been a shift after the beliefs work, but I am also very aware it can creep up on you so I don't want to count my chickens or become complacent. Again, no desire at all last night.
I will get home later at 4 after being at work since Monday at 2, because I took overtime, so I expect tonight I will be tired.

I will reflect on that belief that this is hard - and is the thought that this is hard when I am tired, just another belief and excuse? Ok I do have quite bad bain fogs, which make thinking less clear, and willpower less strong. BUT if the desire to use is not there, does that matter? If its no longer something I associate with pleasure..I would rather choose something that I do find pleasurable.

Since beliefs drive behaviour - new beliefs drive change:

- Porn is pain not pleasure
- Porn is in the way of true happiness
- It isn't hard to resist pain and poison
- I can do it
- I deserve better
- I have turned a corner
- Porn doesn't relieve stress or feelings, it creates them

I also want to stay in touch with the anger I feel, as that is powerful. I don't experience anger very often, but in this case it is justified and its energy can help me stay focused and clean. There is a far richer and happier life available, and I am going to live it.


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Hi @Nico I'm really happy to read these words of yours. Based on your description It seems you have embarked on the next phase of recovery.

The first phase being the ability to naturally detatch the desire to reuse porn for any reason. This is where most people struggle with because of compulsion. A lack of desire is the best sign!

The next phase is reconnecting with our emotions and our environment in a healthy, supportive and understanding manner. This is where you are now. Emotions are basically supplementary signals to inform us how we are doing. This phase also teaches that nothing is permanent and nothing is too serious or unresolvable.

The third phase would be the reconnection and unification of our self with our goals. This is where mental clarity excel as all other unnecessary burdens are released.

I don't yet understand why mood, neuro transmitter stability and an absence of addiction promotes mental clarity. Perhaps it's just removal of distraction and a hightened focus due to normalized dopamine levels which is motivational.
The difference is really night and day, like walking in mud compared to running down a hill.

To be able to intuitively regard porn as utterly unnecessary and undesirable is a big big step forward to your liberation and self realization.

I'm super happy for you!
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Thanks TAN, and yes it does feel like a breakthrough. I just have to make sure these beliefs are crushed, like almost hypnotise myself so that they change deep in the unconscious as well.

Another metaphor from easy peasy, that the brain has learned what provides dopamine and prompts you to have a peek. This then takes you on another ride down the water slide.

I like this because on a water slide there’s no way to stop’re going down that tube. It is like that once you’re peeking and opening old sites up..the apparent relief and apparent pleasure kick in and you’re going down that slide.

I know it is possible to pull out of the slide, but the only really reliable way is not to get on it..let’s suppose you knew that the water slide dropped you onto concrete..would you get on it because you live the thrill or decide it’s probably not worth it?

This is a great analogy - and any subs or thoughts or fantasies you know might trigger the momentum of a slide, are like hurling yourself into that tube which only leads one way..downhill and smashing you onto that concrete

So the moral is don’t jump into it, or hang around the entrance!!! The drop onto the concrete is not pleasure at all.

perhaps the most pathetic aspect is the sense of enjoyment a user gets from a session, trying to get back to the sense of peace, tranquility and confidence their body had before becoming hooked in the first place.
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I feel I am past the water slide phase because I have peeked and it has done nothing for me. It seems I'm not interested in water parks any more 😂

The closest analogy I can think of for me is I have moved from a meat diet to a vegan diet.
The vegan diet will be unsuccessful if we keep remembering the taste and draw of meat, or thinking that meat is necessary.
Vegan can only be successful if we focus and draw only upon vegetables for all our daily needs.
You know you're free when you don't think, talk or desire meat at all.

The only way to get there is to fully immerse yourself in the joy of being vegan. Every dish is received with gratitude. Every meal taken recognized as achievement and success. Then it becomes a virtuous cycle when vegetables are the only things desired and nothing else is considered or even remembered.

Meat is porn and vegan is porn free life. I don't talk about porn anymore so it must seem I'm in phase 2... Learning to accept that some vegetable tastes good and some tastes bad 😅