Surprise

[LTE]

Who knew that porn could cause so much pain?  Who knew it was not harmless?  Who knew it could shake relationships to their very foundation?

It is amazing, the degree to which the professional world got this one wrong. I talked to a doctor about my problem, many years ago, and was told that it was completely normal. That avenue of assistance wasn't going to yield anything useful. It's taken decades and the advent of the Internet to make the truth inescapable, but countless lives were destroyed in the meantime.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

Who knew it was not harmless?

There was strip club in my home town years ago that advertised "harmless visual stimuli". That is a lie, that many of us have believed for most of our lives. I like to think that there will be a major societal backlash against porn in the not-too-distant future, as people increasingly release the tremendous harm that it actually causes to people's minds, bodies, and relationships.

 

[LTE]

Who knew it was not harmless?

There was strip club in my home town years ago that advertised "harmless visual stimuli". That is a lie, that many of us have believed for most of our lives. I like to think that there will be a major societal backlash against porn in the not-too-distant future, as people increasingly release the tremendous harm that it actually causes to people's minds, bodies, and relationships.

I know that the last couple of times I visited such places I felt conspicuous and uncomfortable. I do t think that nudity, in and of itself, is bad, but selling it and exploiting women in the process is not good for anyone.

 

[PMOVictory]

Some things at first can look so innocent. Or we may think it is.
"A quick glimpse will do nothing... I am just going to peek... I'm in control... I can stop whenever I want..."
All this and more are things that we make ourselves believe...
How wrong we are, how wrong we were!
Thank God it is history for me, and a lot of others on this forum!

Best of luck to all that still are battling with it!
Victory will be yours!
For as long as you stay strong the Blessing is waiting for you!

Stay strong and be Blessed!

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Well I made it three weeks before going down the rabbit hole.  Bleah!  When it was discovered by me, he said so many hurtful things.  And every so often, they  just wash over me.  And then I feel so down.  He holds me and lets me talk about the hurt I felt and the hurt I feel when this happens.  I am glad he does.  But I cry.  And even though I hear, read, and have him tell me it was not me, it can still feel that way.

But the good things are:  He does not watch anymore, he does not scan, we can talk to each other, and most of all there are no secrets.  Those things keep me centered.  Just every once in a while, there is a bobble and sometimes I can keep centered and sometimes it goes careening off the thoughts that go through my head.  Who knew that porn could cause so much pain?  Who knew it was not harmless?  Who knew it could shake relationships to their very foundation?  And unlike other problems in life, it is not something you can just sit down and talk to anyone about.  So you have to figure it out.

I am glad there is this forum.  It helps.

I understand exactly, Gracie.

I'm in the middle of falling down that rabbit hole. It snuck up on me Sunday morning and has carried over into today. He went to work early and I woke up to him gone. It threw me into a spiral.

His patience with me having "an episode" isn't evenly matched with my patience with the ED or the PIED. He just stands there and is emotionless while I cry. When I said "I didn't ask for this!" he finally held me. I couldn't hold back because I wonder if I am feeling this way just for attention. I hate myself so much for being so broken while he can just stand there.

Yeah, nothing wrong with a peek - it's just to relax. I'm weighed down with the stigma of mental illness now, the harpy wife trope and a million other excuses that justify wadding me up like a piece of useless paper.

I start therapy tomorrow. I want this to stop. I don't know if he's going to be a part of that or not.

 

[Gracie]

I know what you mean.  Even though he is understanding and says, "as long as it takes" me to get past it he will be there for me.  And he says that he broke my trust and has to earn it back, I can tell he is like "but really how long will it take?"  Yesterday I told him that he literally quit talking to me.  He sat in his chair and played solitaire on his palm pilot or read a book while I was up.  Then when I got ready to go to bed, he said he wasn't tired.  Then Cinemax or Hbo filled his fantasy world.  He did not have sex with me unless I came downstairs and he said did I miss a signal.  It was awful. 

I told him yesterday that he may have loved me during that time, but he did not like me.  He had always said if he didn't like somebody, he just quit talking to them.  I asked him how was I supposed to feel?  I had sex twice a month he was having sex 18.  Twice with me and 16 with his hand.  How can it not sneak up on us?  We are supposed to just go, oh thank you for stopping.  I am okay now.  It is all better.  But for us, as women, that approach does not work. 

I can keep it together most of the time.  But when it goes down hill it just seems to gain momentum.  I have physical pain from health issues and when I am in pain it is harder to not go down the rabbit hole. 

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

I was doing well for about two weeks there. I had a glimpse of the Old SO (before she became a reboot partner). I was getting it done, juggling like a pro. I got three things done for the business that will make a difference. I did a good for myself and didn't feel one bit guilty. I was laughing again.

I know he is trying, but the very real fear and lack of security make me very twitchy about being hurt again. I have no trust in him, that he has my interests at heart, that our family matters. I don't want to be married to that selfish man. My marriage, as it was is over - there is nothing left but to rebuild a different relationship.

It is so frustrating because I want to know what he tells me is true, but I don't believe anything he says. I really did forgive him in the beginning, but the relapses have taken their toll on me. It is a very real betrayal of my trust and love for him.

I am hoping therapy will help me get control over the these triggered emotional storms and thunderclouds.

 

[PMOVictory]

Ladies

I know this is not really my place as a man to even try and give any advice. I can not even say something that might make you feel better.

I can however thank you for saying the things you are saying here on the forum. It gives us an opportunity to hear from a woman's perspective what you go through when we are not truthful to you and break your trust.

I sooo wish there were a magical pill that could be given to all those who suffer from PMO and once and for all cure them.
But alas it is not possible.
Some do reboot easier than others.
I just wish I could know why...?

 

[Gracie]

To all of you men who post here to us, thank you.  Through you, we learn how the men in our life may be thinking.  It helps us understand better.  I know there are women that have been here and then  everything is fine and they stop posting or everything is bad and they stop posting.  I stay because if I can assist one person in withstanding the horrible pain that this addiction has caused then it is worth it. 

I know a lot of men, young and old, only decide to quit because of ED.  I wish they would realize they should do this for the relationships, current and future.  I wish they realized that if they were turned towards their partner they would see so much more.  Helen Keller had a saying that I try to cling to in times of trouble.  It is, "If you turn your face to the sun, you can never see the shadow."  If your SO is truly your one and only, stayed turned toward them and nothing else has a chance to come in.  You need to truly be best friends.  (I had to work on this too, as over time with him turning to porn, I did not like being with him so I turned away as well) 

After I discovered his porn use, for me SEX became the center of our relationship.  Because (haha) he said he wasn't getting enough sex.  Well shame on him for saying that because sometimes I cannot get that out of my head.  It is easier now.  But I have changed in that I have more interest with him only turning to me.  That is how I know, turn toward your wife you may be amazed.  I want men to understand how turning away from their wife, they miss the true beauty of her.  She is there through everything.  And when you get old she will be there for you.  Just treasure her and she will treasure you.

Thanks again to the men who are changing for their beloved.!

 

[LTE]

Great post, Gracie.

Quitting to alleviate ED doesn't strike me as a good motive, either. This process is about reinventing oneself and escaping the hype of pop culture. It involves making sex a meaningful part of your life, something  that you are in control of. It involves strength. Strength in knowing that you are able to control yourself and that your sex drive  compulsions and addictions are not running the show.

All of these things can only help in building a better and happier future. Right now there is no one in my life and there may never be again; I'm seriously contemplating spending my last decades as a bachelor, by choice. Having my sex drive under control has made all of the difference and I can live happily either way.

 

[PMOVictory]

I know a lot of men, young and old, only decide to quit because of ED.  I wish they would realize they should do this for the relationships, current and future.

What you are saying here are something that have been bothering me for quite some time! I've been around on RN and reading a lot of posts, and picked up on this as well.

Guys if you can just realise how there is a bigger picture here and that it is about more than what you think.
Be true to yourself, who you really are. Not what society has moulded you to be, thinking this is who you are supposed to be!
This is where the danger lies.

"If you turn your face to the sun, you can never see the shadow."

Thank you for sharing this gem!

Stay strong and be Blessed!

 

[rider654321]

This has been a very insightful and thought provoking thread Gracie and I thank you for your openness and honesty about your journey as a partner of an addict.

I have only just recently quit porn for good after 40+ years of heavy use that I can say was the direct cause of a failed marriage and all of the associated turmoil that creates in the lives of our children, and in the lives of our extended families. It was the direct cause of significant PIED problems that lead to self esteem issues, depression and a lot of suicidal thoughts on my part because I knew that it was "me" that caused all this havoc in my family. It was me who created all the pain and all of the hardship because of my own selfish addiction.

And yet to this day no one in my family knows or suspects I'd be a porn addict.

I am just an average guy who's pleasant, well mannered and likable. I have lots of friends, I have a generous spirit and an abundant willingness to help others where I can. I am successful in my field, my adult aged kids think I'm a fun loving easy going Dad who's always there to turn too, and always willing to be involved in their lives.

I have a wonderful caring and good natured second wife. She is gorgeous to look at (in fact I sometimes wonder how on earth she's with me), and we share a great life together. We do all the normal lovey dovie things daily. We kiss, we cuddle, we hold hands sitting on the couch watching Tv. I help out around the house, I help with the washing, the ironing and I'll even make dinner several times a week. PIED has affected our sex life but we managed to get around that in other ways so that we both still get to enjoy our sexual climaxes at least weekly, and often more.

Since quitting porn for good I have only seen our relationship go from good to better, and I have been using a lot of the non sexual bonding techniques to improve the level of intimacy within our relationship as I strive to become a much better husband than I have been before.

But the secret is there. I have lived a double life for more years than I care to remember. I have never physically cheated on either of my wives, but I acknowledge now that I had cheated on both of them emotionally. I have had online relationships that I actively encouraged 

The lie is still there, it has never been discovered. I feel a heavy burden realising just how much pain and sorrow my porn addiction has caused those that are and were closest to me. They have no idea that the root cause of the failure of my first marriage, and thus the failure of our once happy family, was entirely a result of my porn addiction 

I have a strong desire to come clean and spill my story, but I fear what will unfold in the wake of doing so? As I rationalise it to myself I know I'll feel relieved that my dirty secret is finally out. I know I'll feel a sense of relief and a weight lifted off my shoulders.

But then as I read accounts of how painful finding out has been for some of the other women who have contributed to this forum. It seems entirely selfish and unfair to burden my closest loved ones with the ugly truth that, at the very least, will be painful and hard to accept. And, at the very worst might be devastating and potentially relationship ending, particularly if I go with absolute full disclosure of the things I have done?

To my mind it would be entirely selfish of me to expose my loved ones to that kind of pain. My addiction long pre-dates my current wife's involvement in my life, so how can I possibly explain to her the lies and deception, and knowingly risk placing our relationship on an unknown and unfamiliar path?

I have given this so much thought over the past few weeks of my reboot. I know I'll never go back to what I was doing before. I feel so much shame for what I have done and for what I have wasted. I want to confess, but I believe this is a burden I have to carry as my punishment for my selfish indiscretions. I read of how others have been discovered or confessed, and how for them it's been a good thing. But as stupid as this sounds (given my past behaviour), I don't think I could hurt my family by confessing.

I'd appreciate any feedback that wives can offer? If you were a wife living in the same circumstances, would you want to know or would you rather things just be left to improve within the relationship?

I should probably make this a thread of its own!         

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

This has been a very insightful and thought provoking thread Gracie and I thank you for your openness and honesty about your journey as a partner of an addict.

I have only just recently quit porn for good after 40+ years of heavy use that I can say was the direct cause of a failed marriage and all of the associated turmoil that creates in the lives of our children, and in the lives of our extended families. It was the direct cause of significant PIED problems that lead to self esteem issues, depression and a lot of suicidal thoughts on my part because I knew that it was "me" that caused all this havoc in my family. It was me who created all the pain and all of the hardship because of my own selfish addiction.

And yet to this day no one in my family knows or suspects I'd be a porn addict.

I am just an average guy who's pleasant, well mannered and likable. I have lots of friends, I have a generous spirit and an abundant willingness to help others where I can. I am successful in my field, my adult aged kids think I'm a fun loving easy going Dad who's always there to turn too, and always willing to be involved in their lives.

I have a wonderful caring and good natured second wife. She is gorgeous to look at (in fact I sometimes wonder how on earth she's with me), and we share a great life together. We do all the normal lovey dovie things daily. We kiss, we cuddle, we hold hands sitting on the couch watching Tv. I help out around the house, I help with the washing, the ironing and I'll even make dinner several times a week. PIED has affected our sex life but we managed to get around that in other ways so that we both still get to enjoy our sexual climaxes at least weekly, and often more.

Since quitting porn for good I have only seen our relationship go from good to better, and I have been using a lot of the non sexual bonding techniques to improve the level of intimacy within our relationship as I strive to become a much better husband than I have been before.

But the secret is there. I have lived a double life for more years than I care to remember. I have never physically cheated on either of my wives, but I acknowledge now that I had cheated on both of them emotionally. I have had online relationships that I actively encouraged 

The lie is still there, it has never been discovered. I feel a heavy burden realising just how much pain and sorrow my porn addiction has caused those that are and were closest to me. They have no idea that the root cause of the failure of my first marriage, and thus the failure of our once happy family, was entirely a result of my porn addiction 

I have a strong desire to come clean and spill my story, but I fear what will unfold in the wake of doing so? As I rationalise it to myself I know I'll feel relieved that my dirty secret is finally out. I know I'll feel a sense of relief and a weight lifted off my shoulders.

But then as I read accounts of how painful finding out has been for some of the other women who have contributed to this forum. It seems entirely selfish and unfair to burden my closest loved ones with the ugly truth that, at the very least, will be painful and hard to accept. And, at the very worst might be devastating and potentially relationship ending, particularly if I go with absolute full disclosure of the things I have done?

To my mind it would be entirely selfish of me to expose my loved ones to that kind of pain. My addiction long pre-dates my current wife's involvement in my life, so how can I possibly explain to her the lies and deception, and knowingly risk placing our relationship on an unknown and unfamiliar path?

I have given this so much thought over the past few weeks of my reboot. I know I'll never go back to what I was doing before. I feel so much shame for what I have done and for what I have wasted. I want to confess, but I believe this is a burden I have to carry as my punishment for my selfish indiscretions. I read of how others have been discovered or confessed, and how for them it's been a good thing. But as stupid as this sounds (given my past behaviour), I don't think I could hurt my family by confessing.

I'd appreciate any feedback that wives can offer? If you were a wife living in the same circumstances, would you want to know or would you rather things just be left to improve within the relationship?

I should probably make this a thread of its own!       

It is up to you. I don't know if a confession would have been easier for me. It would have shown me he had respect for me and my ability to make decisions. Instead I got "you should just divorce me" and "I'm not able to love you the way you need" because he preferred PMO to a real live woman. (This was interpreted by me as I wasn't loveable because he left out the part about preferring PMO.) Catching him in the act was difficult on both of us.

I have waffled from "I would want to know" to "I wish I didn't know" but I am actually glad I know.

 

[Gracie]

Rider,  this is a question a lot of men here have, to tell or not to tell.  I will say that discovery is far worse the being told.  My husband was a Cinemax, HBO, magazine sort.  I came downstairs one night and the show was on.  He had fallen asleep, but the cat was out of the bag.  We had just had sex that night and then he went downstairs to sleep.  He said he  was doing so because of surgery I had so that I could sleep well.  We had sex maybe once a week.  He and his TV girls were together 3 or 4 times a week.

The upsetting part, other than him doing it, was the secrecy, the not telling, that made it seem like I was not enough.  To me he lied, when he said I was beautiful, I was the best wife, even the I love yous rang hollow.  Why?  Because he did not tell me there was a problem.  When you are having happy hands, and doing other things to avoid penetration, there is a problem.  Porn is affecting the choices you make with your SO.  We can tell you watch.  Sometimes not how much or what kind.  But we know something is off.  If he had told me, "There is this problem" we could have worked together in a sane way.  I had helped him through a drug addiction.  (That was far easier, but more scary)  So what was hard about this?  What was hard for me is that he was choosing another person over me and one that I could not compete with.  And I did not know why, as he told me I was everything he needed.  At that point I felt like I was around just in case everything (his penis) quit working. 

The other thing that comes to mind with a hidden addiction like this is:  What if something happens to you?  You are injured or have surgery and she and the family have to take care of you, or you die and this is discovered.  Do you want their last thought be you had this secret life?  Do not leave her with that as the last thing she knows about you.  For me if that had happened, I would have thought he never truly loved me.  He was just biding his time until something better came along.

My husband said, he knew he should stop.  But the thing that made him think that is he was not getting hard to the porn anymore.  Once again the ED thing.  Not our relationship and the lies but the ED with porn.  You do not have to tell her all the different kinds.  But tell her you want to work on making your marriage better.  And that you watch and masturbate.  You do not have to say 'I watch sex with goats to get turned on. I just wanted you to know.'  You could ask her opinion on the amount of sex in shows and slowly ease in to telling.  But please, do not make it so that she would find out in another way other than you telling her.  This is a big lie if you don't. And two can work through better than one.  Once again, it wasn't the knowing, it was the discovery of the porn use.

 

[PMOVictory]

Once again SORP and Gracie

What will us men do without your continual, insightful, thought provoking, intelligent conversation with us guys!
We appreciate you so much!

Those of you, and I guess it is all of you, know my story. How that I struggled to get out of the death grip that porn and masturbation had over me. How that in a short span of time certain significant things and situations happened that were driving me to getting a solution to this addiction.
Here is the thing, for me, I wanted to get control over this addiction and beat it.
I could never let it get out in the light.
It would be to devastating to me, my reputation.
Who I am.
What I believe in.
What I portray to be.
Perfectly sorted out.
Family man.
Business man running a successful enterprise.
Roll model.
Someone a lot of people admire.
Steadfast.
You name it...
Not to mention my wife.
What would she say, think react...
NO!
I need to do this, all on my own.
It is my secret.
It's been my secret for 40 years.
I can handle it!
I have been handling it!
And then...

BANG!

My wife caught me out... what irony!

Never in my life I experienced more shame, guilt, devastation!
I wished for the earth to just open up and swallow me...
All the wife did was to turn around after she screamed and ran out. With me following her trying to talk to her.
We work together in the business and it were one of the most difficult days of my life. Having to save face in front of all of the staff with a wife that is ignoring me flat.
Thank God that I could talk to her that night and we could work things out to a degree where she was willing to at least give it a go.

Before this, I have already did some reading on YBOP and the Reboot. I shared it with her and told her that I am willing to go through this process. And that this will be the turning point for me.

As difficult it were, looking back, I would not have chosen it otherwise.
There are nothing more liberating. All the cards are on the table. Nothing to hide.
No one can even one day blackmail me on anything regarding my porn addiction, internet usage, nothing. It is out in the open.
As a matter of fact. At the end of this month I will be addressing a lot of women at a women's camp on porn addiction!
I could and would never have thought it would be true. That I would be able to stand in front of an audience or 300 - 500 people admitting to them that  I did porn. But this is the Grace of God. He takes my weakest shame and will use it to His glory, and I can do it coz I'm free...!

Will it be easy? No
But there is a need and I will do it.
My wife will also have the opportunity to address the ladies with me.

You do not have to say 'I watch sex with goats to get turned on. I just wanted you to know.'

this is very significant.
Although my wife knows that I watched porn, the nitty gritty she does not need to know!
This is where I need to draw the line for now. In it self it is hard enough for her just to try and understand why I could even look at it once, even just a slight peek at a photo. Not even to mention looking at a video, and as we all know, that is where it started. Now fast forward this viewing or internet porn over 15 - 20 years and realise how the addiction would have progressed. I am in shame myself to just think of it, and I did it. What would her reaction be If she had an idea of it.
So rider, I know how you feel when it comes to should I tell her or not. At the end of the day, personally, I believe it will be the best. It won't be easy, and a lot can com out of this, negatively speaking. But on the positive side I think the scale will tip in your favour.


Stay strong and be Blessed!

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Wow. PmoVictory, this was at work? I caught my husband at work in off hours.

 

[rider654321]

Thanks everyone for your responses to my question on disclosure.

I too have thought a lot about this question since posting it up, and I think its one of those things were there can be no right or wrong answer.  Though I do agree with you all that if you have to find out, being told would be much better than finding out through discovery.

My thoughts are that I should continue my path and focus on my reboot and work hard to improve my relationship with my wife. I see a confession will inevitably make the reboot process much harder and create a lot of additional emotional stress to deal with. One thought I have is that it might be a whole lot less distressing if I was to confide in her once I have reached the 12 month mark (which is the milestone when I'll begin to consider myself as truly successful), and then let her know that I was once an addict, and that I have successfully overcome the addiction.

Thanks once again for your considered input. It's appreciated.       

 

 

[PMOVictory]

Rider

I agree with you in that as we differ from all walks of life, so the right answer is different for each other. You will notice that I also said that for me I think it were better that way.

I also would have love to first of all reboot and wait a year and then tell my wife. It would have been the ultimate.
Getting rid of the vice. Work on and rebuild the relationship and then spill the beans. I suppose some people just have more luck than others.

You are nearing your 30 day mark. It feels like yesterday that you joined the Reboot Nation. You have come a long way and made significant contributions on the forum.

Stay strong and receive the Blessing!

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

I've been here awhile and always when this question comes up "for the ladies" we tell it like we see it.

I have yet to see a single rebooter take the advice and just be honest with the wife.

She already knows something is wrong in the marriage, but again it is your story to tell.

 

[Gracie]

I feel the same way SORP.  Sharing the burden is always better.  Not having it hidden is better.  And as you and I know, it can and has been discovered by us.  I would not wish that uncontrolled situation on anyone, not the Porn Addict or the signifacant other.  Things simply aren't as hidden as we think.  But as you said, to each one it is their own.  But sometimes I think they already know what they will do. So the question is moot if we disagree.