Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex

[SO Reboot Partner]

Doesn't matter if you haven't physically touched her or not.
If you feel the need to hide the fact that you're spending all this time with another woman,
then you already have your answer.

exactly

would you hide your time spent with a male friend?

I went to lunch with a friend,I was only in town for a few nights and I posted on FB that I was seeing her at *place* for foodD
During our time together, she asked me to take off the post, she didnt wan her SO to see it.
I didnt care about her mentally, just her body. so is that the same thing or different
LOL of course its the same thing, but it wasnt me cheating, it was her.
So why  are you cheating on your wife? if she had a YM to hang out with ,as you have your YW, would you be ok with that?

It is interesting that your story assigns cheating to the lady, with no such label for yourself when your motivations were clearly for "just her body".

It is funny when one considers that old-school, Old Testament Adultery is defined by the woman's marital state, not a man's. New Testament adultery is more about intent, the mind and affairs of the heart: ?You have heard that it was said to those of old, ?You shall not commit adultery.? But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart.? Matthew 5:27-28

This isn't a Bible lesson and I hardly qualify as a Sunday School marm. But the evolution of the definition of cheating is right there in Scripture and in the way we try to walk around it to paint ourselves in the best light possible.

If you knew she was in a committed relationship before making the dinner date, motivated by "just her body" you are a cheater-cheater pumpkin eater. It is a huge ego boost to think that this woman risked her relationship to be with you, but in the end it is a ego deflation because she obviously wasn't very proud of it.

EDIT: I read some of your posts and see a lot of body data - BMI, weight, et al. Do you think your medical school training and accident have had an impact on how you see others and yourself?

 

[bzarfas]

Removed. Personal attacks and arguments (as opposed to respectful discussion) regarding matters of faith is absolutely not allowed at RN.

 

[Bibbity]

but manly, I like facts.  I like to know why and how things happen, so I can duplicate the results or avoid the results.

Science is never exact.  Science is knowing something until other science shows up saying otherwise. How many times has science contradicted itself?  Believing in God is no more na?ve than believing in science.  All of us on this journey believe in something different and we should respect that.

 

[bzarfas]

Removed. Personal attacks and arguments (as opposed to respectful discussion) regarding matters of faith is absolutely not allowed at RN.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

but manly, I like facts.  I like to know why and how things happen, so I can duplicate the results or avoid the results.

Science is never exact.  Science is knowing something until other science shows up saying otherwise. How many times has science contradicted itself?  Believing in God is no more na?ve than believing in science. All of us on this journey believe in something different and we should respect that.

universals are a rare event.
LOL yeah, that ludricous.  Look how much science has gotten you, and what has believing  in god gotten you, besides death and wars/etc. LOL

Science is often exact.  Look how much is based on science.

I agree though SOME science is based on hypothesis, where we cannot prove how something is, but all the evidence points in one direction that is held as a fact until something else comes along.
which explains why I am not an atheist, merely an agnostic
Beliving in God is similar in believing in the awesome powers of a milk jug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI

Faith or fact, there was no logical reason to throw passages out of the bible at me, or I could just toss around other biblical content and say you should follow that(1 Corinthians 14:34 ) which makes absolutely no sense in our discussion..This is why I mentioned in my last post to stop talkig about faith/things we imagine and just stick to what we can prove.

It was an illustration of how the definition of adultery changed even in the Bible, nothing more.

 

[bzarfas]

It was an illustration of how the definition of adultery changed even in the Bible, nothing more.

Doesnt seem useful, I am still unsure why you quoted the bible.
:

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

It was an illustration of how the definition of adultery changed even in the Bible, nothing more.

Doesnt seem useful, I am still unsure why you quoted the bible.
:

No problem.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Concentrating on the physical world and denying the metaphysical is part of the problem of emotional affairs I think. Our bodies are physical, yet we need love and affection, truth and trust, pleasure and pain to survive. These are things that can't be really measured or replaced sufficiently. Food, sex, shopping, gambling, heck we could make a big list of physical things used in place of love or self worth.

We share the physical body in sex, but that is not love or affection. We speak with our mouths, but soundwaves are not truth or trust. Heat and Cold can bring pleasure or pain, but temperature is not the pleasure of slipping into a warm bath or the sting of icy snowflakes on the face.

Emotional affairs are more metaphysical, not so much the physical. Metaphysics is how we define our being in the world. And yeah, it is called the "Queen of the Sciences" by I think Aristotle. I'm not looking it up. It has been along time since I've taken a philosophy class. (Husband and I met in one, no one in my major took those things as electives, except for me.)

When we set ourselves up for unrequited relationships, like emotional affairs, what does that say about our self?

 

[FutaRuinedHim]

Ok, we need to remember that we are all trying to have an open conversation, free of judgment or argument, about a sensitive subject for many of us. We should probably leave things like religion, politics, and the like, out of this, because all that does is stir people up and begin debates that are off-subject. Those are arguments that will only breed negativity and never get resolved. That's not what any of us are here for.

I think a single guy engaging in an affair with a woman he knows is involved isn't as guilty as the woman cheating, but he's still knowingly crossing a boundary and doing something that he knows isn't right. Just because he isn't attached doesn't mean he's innocent in the situation.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

 

[bzarfas]

Ok, we need to remember that we are all trying to have an open conversation, free of judgment or argument, about a sensitive subject for many of us. We should probably leave things like religion, politics, and the like, out of this, because all that does is stir people up and begin debates that are off-subject. Those are arguments that will only breed negativity and never get resolved. That's not what any of us are here for.

I think a single guy engaging in an affair with a woman he knows is involved isn't as guilty as the woman cheating, but he's still knowingly crossing a boundary and doing something that he knows isn't right. Just because he isn't attached doesn't mean he's innocent in the situation.

1st off, I didnt know till later she was "taken"
2nd off, why would it be my fault?  Is it the duty of the waitress to deny the fat customer a donut if thats what they ordered??  no,, I have enough problems to handle than to police what everyone else is doing.
I never understood why a if a guy/gal catches their SO with someone else, the guy/gal attacks the someone else?

I agree about the religion and thats why I kept saying it has no place in our friend discussion.;

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

5 years is a long time and you have most likely created a pair bond towards YW. I'm shure you can see how that can damage your relationship with your wife. It also explains why you have a hard time letting her go. She is very much like an addiction for you. I think you have to let her go if you want to break free of all this. It's like she's the last piece of the puzzle.

Yes, I realized just the other day that I have been addicted to YW in the much the same way I was addicted to porn. Seeing her doesn't satisfy me, and only makes me want to see her more. I was in a much worse place with 2 or so years ago, but I've been working diligently over that time to break my connection. I have most of the problem under control now, but I just need to figure out how to not spend so much time thinking about her.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Yes, I realized just the other day that I have been addicted to YW in the much the same way I was addicted to porn. Seeing her doesn't satisfy me, and only makes me want to see her more. I was in a much worse place with 2 or so years ago, but I've been working diligently over that time to break my connection. I have most of the problem under control now, but I just need to figure out how to not spend so much time thinking about her.

STR, as this began as more of an intellectual affection than a physical-fantasy, is there anyway that you can bond with your wife across disciplines intellectually? I would not ask for specifics here, but using consilience or a concordance of evidence for a given topic could be a brain bond. I'm really throwing mud at the wall here, seeing what sticks as a bonding exercise.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

STR, as this began as more of an intellectual affection than a physical-fantasy, is there anyway that you can bond with your wife across disciplines intellectually? I would not ask for specifics here, but using consilience or a concordance of evidence for a given topic could be a brain bond. I'm really throwing mud at the wall here, seeing what sticks as a bonding exercise.

Thanks for asking. You are correct that my interest in YW stemmed from a natural intellectual connection that I simply don't have with my wife. I have done a fair amount of reading on personality types, and based on our respective types, it would be completely predictable that my wife and I would not connect on the same kind of intellectual plane and YW and I are able to connect on.

A few years ago, I started to wonder if I should have married someone like YW instead of my wife. I don't think that way anymore, and I feel very fortunate to be married to the person I am married to. But I have also come to realize that (1) I have a need for a certain type of intellectual stimulation, (2) my wife can't meet this need, and (3) if I try to ignore the need, I eventually get antsy and have to seek some kind of release. I do try to engage my wife along these lines (just as she tries to engage me in the type of conversation that she prefers), but we simply can't give each other enough to really satisfy.

As much as I would like for my wife to be able to meet this need, I also believe that there is no person in the world that can meet all of any other person's needs, such that it shouldn't be a surprise or a major concern if one's spouse can't meet all of one's needs.

The lesson that I have learned with YW is that a single, attractive female is the worst person that I could turn to to meet this need, and I have made an effort over the past year or so to identify males in my life that can take her place in that respect.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

STR, as this began as more of an intellectual affection than a physical-fantasy, is there anyway that you can bond with your wife across disciplines intellectually? I would not ask for specifics here, but using consilience or a concordance of evidence for a given topic could be a brain bond. I'm really throwing mud at the wall here, seeing what sticks as a bonding exercise.

Thanks for asking. You are correct that my interest in YW stemmed from a natural intellectual connection that I simply don't have with my wife. I have done a fair amount of reading on personality types, and based on our respective types, it would be completely predictable that my wife and I would not connect on the same kind of intellectual plane and YW and I are able to connect on.

A few years ago, I started to wonder if I should have married someone like YW instead of my wife. I don't think that way anymore, and I feel very fortunate to be married to the person I am married to. But I have also come to realize that (1) I have a need for a certain type of intellectual stimulation, (2) my wife can't meet this need, and (3) if I try to ignore the need, I eventually get antsy and have to seek some kind of release. I do try to engage my wife along these lines (just as she tries to engage me in the type of conversation that she prefers), but we simply can't give each other enough to really satisfy.

As much as I would like for my wife to be able to meet this need, I also believe that there is no person in the world that can meet all of any other person's needs, such that it shouldn't be a surprise or a major concern if one's spouse can't meet all of one's needs.

The lesson that I have learned with YW is that a single, attractive female is the worst person that I could turn to to meet this need, and I have made an effort over the past year or so to identify males in my life that can take her place in that respect.

I think you deeply respect, love and cherish your wife. We are all different people and cannot be expected to fulfill every need when that need arises for our partners. I think you have really put in the full effort here to understand your own conflicts, establish your own boundaries for behavior and combat the problem in the future on your own terms.

Intellectual stimulation is important. You are very wise to seek out appropriate partners that don't violate the standards you've set for yourself to maintain the respect and love that you have for not only your wife, but your own self. You should bottle this.

 

[Bibbity]

STR, as this began as more of an intellectual affection than a physical-fantasy, is there anyway that you can bond with your wife across disciplines intellectually? I would not ask for specifics here, but using consilience or a concordance of evidence for a given topic could be a brain bond. I'm really throwing mud at the wall here, seeing what sticks as a bonding exercise.

Thanks for asking. You are correct that my interest in YW stemmed from a natural intellectual connection that I simply don't have with my wife. I have done a fair amount of reading on personality types, and based on our respective types, it would be completely predictable that my wife and I would not connect on the same kind of intellectual plane and YW and I are able to connect on.

A few years ago, I started to wonder if I should have married someone like YW instead of my wife. I don't think that way anymore, and I feel very fortunate to be married to the person I am married to. But I have also come to realize that (1) I have a need for a certain type of intellectual stimulation, (2) my wife can't meet this need, and (3) if I try to ignore the need, I eventually get antsy and have to seek some kind of release. I do try to engage my wife along these lines (just as she tries to engage me in the type of conversation that she prefers), but we simply can't give each other enough to really satisfy.

As much as I would like for my wife to be able to meet this need, I also believe that there is no person in the world that can meet all of any other person's needs, such that it shouldn't be a surprise or a major concern if one's spouse can't meet all of one's needs.

The lesson that I have learned with YW is that a single, attractive female is the worst person that I could turn to to meet this need, and I have made an effort over the past year or so to identify males in my life that can take her place in that respect.

I used to think this way about my husband but I have come to realize that these are simply stories I was telling myself to keep from experiencing true intimacy.  True intimacy is about vulnerability.  How often are you vulnerable with your wife?  Expressing your inner most desires and thoughts?  This is bonding.  We really started bonding when we skipped over the "interests" we both had and started talking about our vulnerable parts.  Giving up PMO helped this process of course.  I think this is the whole purpose of marriage/partnership.  Who else can you be truly intimate with?  I have told my husband things I've never said to anyone else and vice versa.  When you have that sort of bond you see the "conversations" as less interesting anyway.  It's not to say I don't desire a good debate but it's not my focus the way it used to be.  It's hard to explain but I hope this makes sense!

 

[LTE]

STR, as this began as more of an intellectual affection than a physical-fantasy, is there anyway that you can bond with your wife across disciplines intellectually? I would not ask for specifics here, but using consilience or a concordance of evidence for a given topic could be a brain bond. I'm really throwing mud at the wall here, seeing what sticks as a bonding exercise.

Thanks for asking. You are correct that my interest in YW stemmed from a natural intellectual connection that I simply don't have with my wife. I have done a fair amount of reading on personality types, and based on our respective types, it would be completely predictable that my wife and I would not connect on the same kind of intellectual plane and YW and I are able to connect on.

A few years ago, I started to wonder if I should have married someone like YW instead of my wife. I don't think that way anymore, and I feel very fortunate to be married to the person I am married to. But I have also come to realize that (1) I have a need for a certain type of intellectual stimulation, (2) my wife can't meet this need, and (3) if I try to ignore the need, I eventually get antsy and have to seek some kind of release. I do try to engage my wife along these lines (just as she tries to engage me in the type of conversation that she prefers), but we simply can't give each other enough to really satisfy.

As much as I would like for my wife to be able to meet this need, I also believe that there is no person in the world that can meet all of any other person's needs, such that it shouldn't be a surprise or a major concern if one's spouse can't meet all of one's needs.

The lesson that I have learned with YW is that a single, attractive female is the worst person that I could turn to to meet this need, and I have made an effort over the past year or so to identify males in my life that can take her place in that respect.

I used to think this way about my husband but I have come to realize that these are simply stories I was telling myself to keep from experiencing true intimacy.  True intimacy is about vulnerability.  How often are you vulnerable with your wife?  Expressing your inner most desires and thoughts?  This is bonding.  We really started bonding when we skipped over the "interests" we both had and started talking about our vulnerable parts.  Giving up PMO helped this process of course.  I think this is the whole purpose of marriage/partnership.  Who else can you be truly intimate with?  I have told my husband things I've never said to anyone else and vice versa.  When you have that sort of bond you see the "conversations" as less interesting anyway.  It's not to say I don't desire a good debate but it's not my focus the way it used to be.  It's hard to explain but I hope this makes sense!

I think that is spot on. There are some areas that a couple will share and others that they won't.

Consider the situation of a cardiac surgeon. Chances are that such a person is not going to be able to talk about their profession with their spouse and be anywhere near the same level of interest or understanding. If that was essential there would be a world full of cardiac surgeons married to cardiac surgeons. There are some subjects better left at work. When I come home for the day my every thought is geared towards not thinking about what I do for a living. I want respite. My work is left-brained activity and I rebalance my stresses by undertaking right-brained activities at night. I would not care to be married to someone in my career field.

How about people in artistic fields? You could end up with competitive sentiments if the first violinist in the symphony were to marry a second violinist. I'm not saying it would never work, I'm just saying that there's a downside to some compatibilities.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

I think you have really put in the full effort here to understand your own conflicts, establish your own boundaries for behavior and combat the problem in the future on your own terms.

I feel very confident that there will never be another "YW" in my future. I allowed myself to grow attached to her while still a PMO addict, back when I was used to consistently behaving in ways that were harmful to myself and my marriage. Now that I know better and am motivated to be a different person, I can't imagine myself letting a YW situation happen to me again.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

I used to think this way about my husband but I have come to realize that these are simply stories I was telling myself to keep from experiencing true intimacy.  True intimacy is about vulnerability.  How often are you vulnerable with your wife?  Expressing your inner most desires and thoughts?  This is bonding.  We really started bonding when we skipped over the "interests" we both had and started talking about our vulnerable parts.  Giving up PMO helped this process of course.  I think this is the whole purpose of marriage/partnership.  Who else can you be truly intimate with?  I have told my husband things I've never said to anyone else and vice versa.  When you have that sort of bond you see the "conversations" as less interesting anyway.  It's not to say I don't desire a good debate but it's not my focus the way it used to be.  It's hard to explain but I hope this makes sense!

Thanks for sharing this. I have always been a very private person, as well as an introvert who doesn't talk very much. So I don't share much about my feelings or what's going on inside. But I agree that having an open and intimate relationship with another person is something that I have always wanted very much.

I actually think that part of the reason I spent so much time fantasizing about women that I could never have is that I was afraid to be vulnerable with a real woman that I could have. Being vulnerable opens you up to rejection, whereas I didn't have to worry about being rejected by women on a computer screen or in my head. Along these lines, YW is about the 6th female that has (unwittingly) played a certain type of fantasy role in my life. There's some part of me that wants to be able to fantasize about a woman that I know I will never be with, possibly because I can daydream about all of the happy experiences we could share together without having to experience the messiness that goes along with real relationships and without having to open myself up to rejection and getting hurt.

 

[Bibbity]

I used to think this way about my husband but I have come to realize that these are simply stories I was telling myself to keep from experiencing true intimacy.  True intimacy is about vulnerability.  How often are you vulnerable with your wife?  Expressing your inner most desires and thoughts?  This is bonding.  We really started bonding when we skipped over the "interests" we both had and started talking about our vulnerable parts.  Giving up PMO helped this process of course.  I think this is the whole purpose of marriage/partnership.  Who else can you be truly intimate with?  I have told my husband things I've never said to anyone else and vice versa.  When you have that sort of bond you see the "conversations" as less interesting anyway.  It's not to say I don't desire a good debate but it's not my focus the way it used to be.  It's hard to explain but I hope this makes sense!

Thanks for sharing this. I have always been a very private person, as well as an introvert who doesn't talk very much. So I don't share much about my feelings or what's going on inside. But I agree that having an open and intimate relationship with another person is something that I have always wanted very much.

I actually think that part of the reason I spent so much time fantasizing about women that I could never have is that I was afraid to be vulnerable with a real woman that I could have. Being vulnerable opens you up to rejection, whereas I didn't have to worry about being rejected by women on a computer screen or in my head. Along these lines, YW is about the 6th female that has (unwittingly) played a certain type of fantasy role in my life. There's some part of me that wants to be able to fantasize about a woman that I know I will never be with, possibly because I can daydream about all of the happy experiences we could share together without having to experience the messiness that goes along with real relationships and without having to open myself up to rejection and getting hurt.

This is a very important thing to realize in your recovery.  We use many distractions to keep us from experiencing intimacy with others.  From my own childhood my emotions were used against me at a later time so I grew a very HARD exterior.  It is still difficult for me to cry in front of others but I have taken that step with my husband.  I used to show anger instead of sadness because in my family it was safer and less vulnerable.  I would watch sad movies or sad news stories because it gave me an excuse to cry when I needed too.