Emotional affairs vs. "appropriate" friendships with the opposite sex

[SlaveToRighteousness]

From my own childhood my emotions were used against me at a later time so I grew a very HARD exterior.

This is part of my fear as well. I don't want to reveal anything that can be used against me.

I've been thinking today about why I have an emotional attachment to YW, and I realized that a big part of the attachment is that for the past 3-4 years, I have been helping her think through her various options for her future. She has been applying to various graduate programs and such, and since part of what I do for a living involves helping students map out their careers, her career plans have been a natural source of conversation for us. I think it would be fair to say that I feel "invested" now in what happens to her, since I've been involved in helping her think through her options.

I've realized that the emotional component for me stems in part from the fact that I don't hear from her often enough to keep updated on her planning and decision-making, so that when I receive an update from her, I might not get another one for 2-3 months. This is problematic from an emotional standpoint because I spend those 2-3 months feeling like I've been "left hanging", with no closure or resolution. This seems to make me more emotionally activated then I would be if she gave me more frequent updates.

On some level, I would rather receive no information from her at all then to receive these sporadic updates with long periods of silence in between.

 

[Bibbity]

STR I think that sounds natural.  Do you think men equate caring for another woman as a sexual thing?

I agree with the intermittent contact being problematic for moving on.

 

[ssoac]

STR I think that sounds natural.  Do you think men equate caring for another woman as a sexual thing?

I agree with the intermittent contact being problematic for moving on.

Caring for a woman is first of all love.
Second of all love.
And third of all lust.

This leads to the age old problem of a man loving a woman and surrendering himself to her.
But this is an entirely different topic.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

Do you think men equate caring for another woman as a sexual thing?

Until the past year, I was generally only interested in being friends with females that I was physically attracted to, which probably means that I defined "caring for a woman" at least partially in sexual terms.

 

[Bibbity]

Dustin Hoffman said a very interesting thing when he played a woman in the movie Tootsie. I think I will repost in the objectification thread as well!  Ties into our chat about caring only for attractive women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPAat-T1uhE&feature=kp

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

Dustin Hoffman said a very interesting thing when he played a woman in the movie Tootsie. I think I will repost in the objectification thread as well!  Ties into our chat about caring only for attractive women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPAat-T1uhE&feature=kp

Thanks a lot for posting that. I feel the same way that Dustin does, in the sense that I have undoubtedly missed out on getting to know countless wonderful (female) people because they didn't fit the image that I was brainwashed to believe they should fit in order for me to want to get to know them.

 

[LTE]

What amazed me was the level of emotion it caused in him.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

What amazed me was the level of emotion it caused in him.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty powerful.

 

[Bibbity]

Came upon another interesting find I wanted to share.  Written by a man and I think he really knows what he's talking about.  Would love to hear your thoughts!

https://thiswildwakingjourney.wordpress.com/2014/04/23/can-men-be-friends-with-women-theyre-sexually-attracted-to/

 

[LTE]

Came upon another interesting find I wanted to share.  Written by a man and I think he really knows what he's talking about.  Would love to hear your thoughts!

https://thiswildwakingjourney.wordpress.com/2014/04/23/can-men-be-friends-with-women-theyre-sexually-attracted-to/

This makes a lot of sense. I think it describes the problem very accurately. If a male comes of age believing the entertainment industry he's going to directed towards a permanent state of emotional adolescence. Well before reading this article I had concluded that, at the root, my masturbation problem and use of pornography boiled down to a failure, on my part, to mature beyond adolescence.

One thing that has helped me to reorient is to give thought to the females in my life that have always been off limits; relatives, girlfriends of others, underage females, married women, etc. I realized that I already possessed the skills required and just had to apply these same rules a bit more broadly in my life.

A sexual relationship should be the exception, not the rule. Our sexual ability is a gift, but it must be controlled. We don't have to respond to every opportunity for arousal.

 

[Bibbity]

Great insight lte!  Yes my husband has come to the same conclusions.  He really enjoys this guy Jason Gaddis and his blog called "Relationship as Path".  He has some great insight.  A lot of wise men have learned that to be a masculine man you need to learn how to be in relationship with women.  Many men lose their way because of social conditioning, poor relationship role models or bad relationships with their mothers and it starts very early. 

I will also say that to be a feminine woman you must also learn to relate to men properly.  It goes both ways but for the sake of this thread I only included men.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

Came upon another interesting find I wanted to share.  Written by a man and I think he really knows what he's talking about.  Would love to hear your thoughts!

https://thiswildwakingjourney.wordpress.com/2014/04/23/can-men-be-friends-with-women-theyre-sexually-attracted-to/

Great article, Bibbity. Thanks for posting that. I don't have time to say much right now, but I hope to share some thoughts soon.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

The idea that a man doesn?t have to ?do anything? in response to an erection or any other kind of sexual stimulation (including fantasy) is a powerful one for PMO addicts trying to break their addiction.

Along similar lines, one of the things I?ve been working on is learning to appreciate attractive qualities in females without feeling like I have to somehow take possession of those qualities for myself. Until this past year, whenever I saw or met an attractive female, I inevitably fantasized about her body and what it would be like to have sex with her, and then felt depressed and sorry for myself that I couldn?t ?have? her.

The author of the blog talks about ?the feminine gifts of consensus building, intuition and heart-centered thinking, holistic well-being, beauty for its own sake, emotions and vulnerability?. These are all things that I have always found attractive in females, but I always confused that attraction with sexual attraction, which always messed things up and prevented me from being able to engage in authentic friendships with women.

I have worked hard over the past year to focus all of my sexual energy on my wife, and to become 100% committed to her and our marriage. In addition to the many benefits that has brought to our relationship, I have also found that the more committed I am to her, the better able I am to be friends with other women without allowing those friendships to threaten my marriage or to make me feel an inappropriate attraction to the other women. I?m thinking mostly of YW, who has (unknowingly) played a big role in helping me learn a lot of important lessons in being a Mature Man and learning how to take control over my sexual energy.

 

[LTE]

The idea that a man doesn?t have to ?do anything? in response to an erection or any other kind of sexual stimulation (including fantasy) is a powerful one for PMO addicts trying to break their addiction.

Along similar lines, one of the things I?ve been working on is learning to appreciate attractive qualities in females without feeling like I have to somehow take possession of those qualities for myself. Until this past year, whenever I saw or met an attractive female, I inevitably fantasized about her body and what it would be like to have sex with her, and then felt depressed and sorry for myself that I couldn?t ?have? her.

The author of the blog talks about ?the feminine gifts of consensus building, intuition and heart-centered thinking, holistic well-being, beauty for its own sake, emotions and vulnerability?. These are all things that I have always found attractive in females, but I always confused that attraction with sexual attraction, which always messed things up and prevented me from being able to engage in authentic friendships with women.

I have worked hard over the past year to focus all of my sexual energy on my wife, and to become 100% committed to her and our marriage. In addition to the many benefits that has brought to our relationship, I have also found that the more committed I am to her, the better able I am to be friends with other women without allowing those friendships to threaten my marriage or to make me feel an inappropriate attraction to the other women. I?m thinking mostly of YW, who has (unknowingly) played a big role in helping me learn a lot of important lessons in being a Mature Man and learning how to take control over my sexual energy.

Great post.

I'm coming to the conclusion that my attitude towards sex has been completely off-base for my entire life. Since making the changes of the last 500+ days I've learned to appreciate what a wonderful gift it is to have women in our world. Women bring some wonderful things to civilization. The feminine gifts mentioned are a great counterbalance to the unvarnished masculinity that seems to come effortlessly to most of us males. It doesn't make either gender more or less important, more or less gifted, more or less intelligent; it makes us the perfect counterpart to one another. I believe that in a truly moral society we could experience life much more richly if we all operated within limits that would allow us to interact between the genders without fear that things will go too far. If everyone feels safe and can operate without having to be on the defensive.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

I'm coming to the conclusion that my attitude towards sex has been completely off-base for my entire life. Since making the changes of the last 500+ days I've learned to appreciate what a wonderful gift it is to have women in our world. Women bring some wonderful things to civilization. The feminine gifts mentioned are a great counterbalance to the unvarnished masculinity that seems to come effortlessly to most of us males. It doesn't make either gender more or less important, more or less gifted, more or less intelligent; it makes us the perfect counterpart to one another. I believe that in a truly moral society we could experience life much more richly if we all operated within limits that would allow us to interact between the genders without fear that things will go too far. If everyone feels safe and can operate without having to be on the defensive.

Amen. I have only recently begun to appreciate what a tremendous gift I have been given in the person of my wife, and (not surprisingly) the more I treat her like a gift, the more she responds like one. It is a gift to have other women in my life as well, but in a different way. I have always placed boundaries on myself in relation to other women, in the sense that I would never allow myself to engage in a physical relationships outside of my marriage. Those boundaries used to make me feel like I was missing out on something, but now I am starting to realize that the boundaries actually create a safe place for me to pursue a deeper level of intimacy with my wife that I wouldn't be able to pursue if I didn't respect the boundaries.

With those boundaries safely in place, and with the attitude that they are good for me rather than a source of constraint that keeps me from enjoying life to the full, I am in a  position to work on being a Mature Man in friendships with other women, without having to worry that any positive interactions with other women will translate into sexual desire on my part.

 

[LTE]

I'm coming to the conclusion that my attitude towards sex has been completely off-base for my entire life. Since making the changes of the last 500+ days I've learned to appreciate what a wonderful gift it is to have women in our world. Women bring some wonderful things to civilization. The feminine gifts mentioned are a great counterbalance to the unvarnished masculinity that seems to come effortlessly to most of us males. It doesn't make either gender more or less important, more or less gifted, more or less intelligent; it makes us the perfect counterpart to one another. I believe that in a truly moral society we could experience life much more richly if we all operated within limits that would allow us to interact between the genders without fear that things will go too far. If everyone feels safe and can operate without having to be on the defensive.

Amen. I have only recently begun to appreciate what a tremendous gift I have been given in the person of my wife, and (not surprisingly) the more I treat her like a gift, the more she responds like one. It is a gift to have other women in my life as well, but in a different way. I have always placed boundaries on myself in relation to other women, in the sense that I would never allow myself to engage in a physical relationships outside of my marriage. Those boundaries used to make me feel like I was missing out on something, but now I am starting to realize that the boundaries actually create a safe place for me to pursue a deeper level of intimacy with my wife that I wouldn't be able to pursue if I didn't respect the boundaries.

With those boundaries safely in place, and with the attitude that they are good for me rather than a source of constraint that keeps me from enjoying life to the full, I am in a  position to work on being a Mature Man in friendships with other women, without having to worry that any positive interactions with other women will translate into sexual desire on my part.

Well stated. I am coming to appreciate the women in my life in an ever greater way. It's one of those things where less turns out to be more. If I keep the boundaries in place in my mind and  restrict my sexual notions regarding women then I actually seem to have more fulfilling interaction with the opposite sex and come away emotionally satisfied.

 

[Bibbity]

STR this is exactly how my husband feels as well.  I wish he'd come in here to try and help some of the younger generation as they seem so lost in their ideas of relationships with women. 

No woman will ever truly open up and reveal herself emotionally or sexually with a man she cannot trust.  This is an important thing to know because true intimacy with a woman is what you (or most men) truly desire.

Great discussion guys

 

[LTE]

STR this is exactly how my husband feels as well.  I wish he'd come in here to try and help some of the younger generation as they seem so lost in their ideas of relationships with women. 

No woman will ever truly open up and reveal herself emotionally or sexually with a man she cannot trust.  This is an important thing to know because true intimacy with a woman is what you (or most men) truly desire.

Great discussion guys

One of life's great truths and it has been all but lost.

 

[ann]

I have been married for 22 years and my whole world was turned upside down when I found out that my 45 year old husband was having an emotional affair with a 25 year old employee. I don't know how much they were talking at work, but there was over 6,000 texts within a 3 week period when I found out. He told me that it was never physical and that he didn't even realize it was wrong at the time. When he realized that I was about to find out, he deleted all the texts and told her to stop texting. I then find out that she had recently joined the place where he frequently works out and she had started working out there at the same time he was there. Oh, I also forgot to mention that she had just filed for divorce from a one year marriage. He swore they were just friends and I insisted that he have the least amount of contact with her at work. He agreed with that. I was really struggling with this whole affair, crying all the time and I lost 20 pounds within one month. I still had doubts that he ended things with her so about 6 weeks after he supposedly ended things with her I put a recorder in his work bag. I got to hear a conversation between them in his office. He had been going to work and telling her things I was saying and how he had explained to me that he wasn't talking to her. I also found out that she had met up with him and a friend at the casino drunk and he had given her and friend a ride home prior to me finding out about their friendship. He had told me that he never saw her outside of work. During their recorded conversation he was giving her a hard time about having a boyfriend, and he said he didn't care if she had a boyfriend because he couldn't do anything about it anyways. I truly do believe he didn't have a physical relationship with her but he tries to tell me that she meant absolutely nothing to him, he just made a mistake. It has been 1 1/2 years since I found out about it and I still struggle with it every day. He never verbally ended things with her, she just worked less for him. I found a way for him to fire her and forced him to fire her. Since he found out that I recorded their conversation and I said it's her or me he has changed in so many ways and our communication has been better. He is attentive to my needs. I am struggling with depression because of the affair. I still want answers about the affair but he tells me he doesn't remember the details, he just wants to move forward in our relationship. I don't know how to move forward with so many unknowns about the past. I would have never thought this would have happened to me and that is why I am so devastated. I wish cheaters would think about the consequences of their actions before they act. My husband is also an introvert so knowing that he shared things with another woman is hard, especially a young woman that is barely older than our oldest child. We haven't shared this affair with anyone other than my best friend and I just needed to vent I guess.

 

[LTE]

I have been married for 22 years and my whole world was turned upside down when I found out that my 45 year old husband was having an emotional affair with a 25 year old employee. I don't know how much they were talking at work, but there was over 6,000 texts within a 3 week period when I found out. He told me that it was never physical and that he didn't even realize it was wrong at the time. When he realized that I was about to find out, he deleted all the texts and told her to stop texting. I then find out that she had recently joined the place where he frequently works out and she had started working out there at the same time he was there. Oh, I also forgot to mention that she had just filed for divorce from a one year marriage. He swore they were just friends and I insisted that he have the least amount of contact with her at work. He agreed with that. I was really struggling with this whole affair, crying all the time and I lost 20 pounds within one month. I still had doubts that he ended things with her so about 6 weeks after he supposedly ended things with her I put a recorder in his work bag. I got to hear a conversation between them in his office. He had been going to work and telling her things I was saying and how he had explained to me that he wasn't talking to her. I also found out that she had met up with him and a friend at the casino drunk and he had given her and friend a ride home prior to me finding out about their friendship. He had told me that he never saw her outside of work. During their recorded conversation he was giving her a hard time about having a boyfriend, and he said he didn't care if she had a boyfriend because he couldn't do anything about it anyways. I truly do believe he didn't have a physical relationship with her but he tries to tell me that she meant absolutely nothing to him, he just made a mistake. It has been 1 1/2 years since I found out about it and I still struggle with it every day. He never verbally ended things with her, she just worked less for him. I found a way for him to fire her and forced him to fire her. Since he found out that I recorded their conversation and I said it's her or me he has changed in so many ways and our communication has been better. He is attentive to my needs. I am struggling with depression because of the affair. I still want answers about the affair but he tells me he doesn't remember the details, he just wants to move forward in our relationship. I don't know how to move forward with so many unknowns about the past. I would have never thought this would have happened to me and that is why I am so devastated. I wish cheaters would think about the consequences of their actions before they act. My husband is also an introvert so knowing that he shared things with another woman is hard, especially a young woman that is barely older than our oldest child. We haven't shared this affair with anyone other than my best friend and I just needed to vent I guess.

That's a real shame, Ann. I guess it goes to show that it doesn't take literal adultery to harm a marriage. All of us must be careful or we can end up causing great hurt to someone the loves us unconditionally.