Year of the Dragon - SO Reboot Partner's Journal

[rider654321]

Wow SORP,
I have just read all nine pages of your journal. You have certainly demonstrated an amazing level of insightfulness, loyalty, commitment, patience and tenacity as you have dealt with the issues that have manifested from your husband's addiction.

Your last few posts have a distinctly different feel (tone) to them and while I appaud you for establishing new stronger boundaries for your husband and yourself, and your feeling more like yourself, I nevertheless felt saddened (for you) to read that things remain "cold in the bedroom" given all that you have been through, and the sheer amount of support and patience you have given your hubby. He is indeed a lucky man to have you stand by him this long.

Reading between the lines of your response to Ite's enquiry about "has there been any recent relapses from your hubby" creates a bit of confusion over whether he did relapsed or not, and I sincerely hope given the commitment you have put into rebuilding your trust in him that the answer would be a definate, no.

He should indeed be respecting the sacrifies you have made and should be doing everything within his power to honour your relationship, trust and support.

If there have been further relapse/s after all the effort you have put into to rebuilding your relationship, then the problem rests squarely with him and his choices. If that is the case, then I would encourage you to consider what is ultimately right for you and you alone and pursue that path. That would not be selfish under your circumstances.

Reading your journal has been insightful on so many levels. 

   

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Wow SORP,
I have just read all nine pages of your journal. You have certainly demonstrated an amazing level of insightfulness, loyalty, commitment, patience and tenacity as you have dealt with the issues that have manifested from your husband's addiction.

Your last few posts have a distinctly different feel (tone) to them and while I appaud you for establishing new stronger boundaries for your husband and yourself, and your feeling more like yourself, I nevertheless felt saddened (for you) to read that things remain "cold in the bedroom" given all that you have been through, and the sheer amount of support and patience you have given your hubby. He is indeed a lucky man to have you stand by him this long.

Reading between the lines of your response to Ite's enquiry about "has there been any recent relapses from your hubby" creates a bit of confusion over whether he did relapsed or not, and I sincerely hope given the commitment you have put into rebuilding your trust in him that the answer would be a definate, no.

He should indeed be respecting the sacrifies you have made and should be doing everything within his power to honour your relationship, trust and support.

If there have been further relapse/s after all the effort you have put into to rebuilding your relationship, then the problem rests squarely with him and his choices. If that is the case, then I would encourage you to consider what is ultimately right for you and you alone and pursue that path. That would not be selfish under your circumstances.

Reading your journal has been insightful on so many levels. 

   

I really don't have any curiosity about his relapses right now. If he did, he did. If he didn't, he didn't. Why would it matter to me? Why should it matter?

I have detached from the problem that isn't mine and that I cannot solve. Attachment and support only hold him back, keep him from failing and pulling himself back up. I'm really not SO Reboot Partner anymore. I'm my own person.

 

[rider654321]

I have a hard time accepting any partner in your position (given all you have been through) can have a dismissive approach to the issue like that?

At least in my mind the relapse/s should matter to you because he knows it's been the very source of so much pain in your lives. Those 7 years where you lived in a sexless marriage is as good a place as any to build a case for why a relapse really should matter to you?

Your hubby must have an overwhelming sense of how much damage his porn addiction has caused you and your marriage. So a relapse after all the effort and support you've given him should matter to you because (IMHO) it demonstrates where his priorities are really at, but more importantly it demonstrates where your needs as his wife fit in with his priorities.

I do get that your hubby's addiction is a problem you can't fix, as it is ultimately up to the addict to overcome the addiction. No partner can ever really know what's going on inside the head of an addict, but switching off to the problem and not caring either way if he's using or not seems counter intuitive to producing a good outcome. Particularly if things are not firing on all cylinders in the bedroom between you two and your needs for intimacy and sex are not being met.

I do understand your need to step back and set strong boundaries, and I agree he has to be the one to pull himself up if he has relapsed. I just hope that your change in attitude is not you shutting down to your own emotional needs and switching off to avoid further pain.

You seem like a wonderfully supportive, intelligent and supportive woman and you deserve to be treated that way by your hubby.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

I have a hard time accepting any partner in your position (given all you have been through) can have a dismissive approach to the issue like that?

At least in my mind the relapse/s should matter to you because he knows it's been the very source of so much pain in your lives. Those 7 years where you lived in a sexless marriage is as good a place as any to build a case for why a relapse really should matter to you?

Your hubby must have an overwhelming sense of how much damage his porn addiction has caused you and your marriage. So a relapse after all the effort and support you've given him should matter to you because (IMHO) it demonstrates where his priorities are really at, but more importantly it demonstrates where your needs as his wife fit in with his priorities.

I do get that your hubby's addiction is a problem you can't fix, as it is ultimately up to the addict to overcome the addiction. No partner can ever really know what's going on inside the head of an addict, but switching off to the problem and not caring either way if he's using or not seems counter intuitive to producing a good outcome. Particularly if things are not firing on all cylinders in the bedroom between you two and your needs for intimacy and sex are not being met.

I do understand your need to step back and set strong boundaries, and I agree he has to be the one to pull himself up if he has relapsed. I just hope that your change in attitude is not you shutting down to your own emotional needs and switching off to avoid further pain.

You seem like a wonderfully supportive, intelligent and supportive woman and you deserve to be treated that way by your hubby.

I really appreciate your response. I NEED this kind of push back to argue this through so I don't get caught up in it later and go back to the old way. I am being perfectly rational in my approach to this.

I think the question is "Why would relapse [sic] matter to me? Why should it matter?"

To summarize your first idea, It should matter because of all the pain PMO addiction caused. I think what you are saying here is I need to be concerned about his p use and relapse so I can help diminish/control the relapses and not relive the past?

The sunken cost fallacy is a cognitive distortion where one believes they can recover what has already been spent. It's like buying concert tickets, getting the flu and then going to the concert anyway "because you don't want to lose the money." Dude, that money is spent and gone. Going to the concert will just make you miserable. So will chasing a solution to a pain that has already been spent.

I have been miserable chasing this thing. I've bent myself sideways and became something I am not.

The years of sexless marriage can never be recovered. Guilt won't bring it back, sacrifice won't bring it back, stomping and screaming won't bring it back and worry or concern today isn't going to make that time disappear or regain what has already been spent, so I don't see the point in worry, concern or paying a possible relapse any deference.

We can go only forward. It is up to him how he chooses and up to me how I choose.

This does not mean I won't listen to him if he needs to talk about it, but I'm not going to inquire. It doesn't mean I don't care for him. I do. I do not care for the behavior and will not be a slave to it too. P will not make me miserable, keep me on edge or worried about his state of mind.

I haven't switched off the problem, but I have detached myself from the worry of it. I need to care for myself.

 

[rider654321]

I really appreciate your response. I NEED this kind of push back to argue this through so I don't get caught up in it later and go back to the old way. I am being perfectly rational in my approach to this.

I think the question is "Why would relapse [sic] matter to me? Why should it matter?"

To summarize your first idea, It should matter because of all the pain PMO addiction caused. I think what you are saying here is I need to be concerned about his p use and relapse so I can help diminish/control the relapses and not relive the past?

The sunken cost fallacy is a cognitive distortion where one believes they can recover what has already been spent. It's like buying concert tickets, getting the flu and then going to the concert anyway "because you don't want to lose the money." Dude, that money is spent and gone. Going to the concert will just make you miserable. So will chasing a solution to a pain that has already been spent.

I have been miserable chasing this thing. I've bent myself sideways and became something I am not.

The years of sexless marriage can never be recovered. Guilt won't bring it back, sacrifice won't bring it back, stomping and screaming won't bring it back and worry or concern today isn't going to make that time disappear or regain what has already been spent, so I don't see the point in worry, concern or paying a possible relapse any deference.

We can go only forward. It is up to him how he chooses and up to me how I choose.

This does not mean I won't listen to him if he needs to talk about it, but I'm not going to inquire. It doesn't mean I don't care for him. I do. I do not care for the behavior and will not be a slave to it too. P will not make me miserable, keep me on edge or worried about his state of mind.

I haven't switched off the problem, but I have detached myself from the worry of it. I need to care for myself.

Actually, no, you didn't summarize my first idea correctly.

What I meant was if your hubby is relapsing, then by default he is prioritising porn over nurturing the mutually satisfying sexual relationship you so desire. Given the circumstances, I find it hard to imagine that is something you would accept, let alone say "it doesn't matter".

It's not about reliving the past, but rather, learning from it. It's about establishing where you fit into his world, or whether he is ever going to seriously prioritise you as his wife?

I'm curious as to whether since you've chosen to step back (and I fully agree with your reason's for doing so), did you establish any clear boundaries for him to work within on his own?

I'm kind of thinking if your view now is along the lines of  "why should a relapse matter to you?" it kind of feels like giving him a green light?

If all your ducks are not lining up as they should. If he's back using P and is not actively chasing you around the bedroom or a making some effort to satisfy your needs, then I fear your on a predicably slippery slope and you deserve much better than that.

You are absolutely right in that you must care for yourself. 

       

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

I really appreciate your response. I NEED this kind of push back to argue this through so I don't get caught up in it later and go back to the old way. I am being perfectly rational in my approach to this.

I think the question is "Why would relapse [sic] matter to me? Why should it matter?"

To summarize your first idea, It should matter because of all the pain PMO addiction caused. I think what you are saying here is I need to be concerned about his p use and relapse so I can help diminish/control the relapses and not relive the past?

The sunken cost fallacy is a cognitive distortion where one believes they can recover what has already been spent. It's like buying concert tickets, getting the flu and then going to the concert anyway "because you don't want to lose the money." Dude, that money is spent and gone. Going to the concert will just make you miserable. So will chasing a solution to a pain that has already been spent.

I have been miserable chasing this thing. I've bent myself sideways and became something I am not.

The years of sexless marriage can never be recovered. Guilt won't bring it back, sacrifice won't bring it back, stomping and screaming won't bring it back and worry or concern today isn't going to make that time disappear or regain what has already been spent, so I don't see the point in worry, concern or paying a possible relapse any deference.

We can go only forward. It is up to him how he chooses and up to me how I choose.

This does not mean I won't listen to him if he needs to talk about it, but I'm not going to inquire. It doesn't mean I don't care for him. I do. I do not care for the behavior and will not be a slave to it too. P will not make me miserable, keep me on edge or worried about his state of mind.

I haven't switched off the problem, but I have detached myself from the worry of it. I need to care for myself.

Actually, no, you didn't summarize my first idea correctly.

What I meant was if your hubby is relapsing, then by default he is prioritising porn over nurturing the mutually satisfying sexual relationship you so desire. Given the circumstances, I find it hard to imagine that is something you would accept, let alone say "it doesn't matter".

It's not about reliving the past, but rather, learning from it. It's about establishing where you fit into his world, or whether he is ever going to seriously prioritise you as his wife?

I'm curious as to whether since you've chosen to step back (and I fully agree with your reason's for doing so), did you establish any clear boundaries for him to work within on his own?

I'm kind of thinking if your view now is along the lines of  "why should a relapse matter to you?" it kind of feels like giving him a green light?

If all your ducks are not lining up as they should. If he's back using P and is not actively chasing you around the bedroom or a making some effort to satisfy your needs, then I fear your on a predicably slippery slope and you deserve much better than that.

You are absolutely right in that you must care for yourself. 

     

Thanks for clarifying your point, but let's be clear - My ducks are lined up. I'm not going to worry about it. My relationship boundaries do prohibit the prioritization of P over real relationships, that hasn't changed. My boundaries also include connected, mutually enjoyable sex. As a P addict, he stinks in bed. (i suspect this is true for all PA's if we got real about it)

He can relapse or abstain - he or any addict will do what they do, no matter how much concern or worry an SO has. I've proven this to myself, I don't need more proof.

"Green Light?" sure, if that is what he wants. I'll respect the decision to choose porn over our marriage. I will accept that we don't want the same things and move on to find what I need. He can celebrate with a weekend binge. Everybody wins. Everybody gets exactly what they need.

Look Rider, his addiction does not deserve my attention, tears or concern. Period.

I love the man. It would be sad, but it isn't the end of the world. He needs his ducks in a row.

 

[rider654321]

Look Rider, his addiction does not deserve my attention, tears or concern. Period.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about my addiction and disclosure. The addiction is/was my problem, so why should my wife have to deal with the emotional fall out? She deserves to live her life unaffected by what you have rightly pointed out, it is ultimately the addicts problem.

Seems like your in a good place to deal with whatever the future has in store for you. I wish you much happiness. 

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Look Rider, his addiction does not deserve my attention, tears or concern. Period.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about my addiction and disclosure. The addiction is/was my problem, so why should my wife have to deal with the emotional fall out? She deserves to live her life unaffected by what you have rightly pointed out, it is ultimately the addicts problem.

Seems like your in a good place to deal with whatever the future has in store for you. I wish you much happiness.

Rider,

I think you are going to justify not telling her anyway you can because it benefits you and your addiction. The situations are not the same. I am making a decision for myself.

You were a P-addict when you met her. You assume that addiction wasn't something that attracted her to you. If she likes you better as a p-addict, will you return to it? Codependents (enablers) typically jump from relationship to relationship with addicts and alcoholics.

You are still making decisions for her and not allowing a grown woman make decisions for herself.

sorp

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Had a great time last night with the family. Hubs was connected, kids happy, everyone socialized.

I'm still vigilant about policing my codependency behaviors - I would usually feel anxious about going out in public as a family because I felt like I needed to cover with chatter because there was something off with us as a family unit. Not last night. The kids were relaxed, husband and I had fun - even if it was past our bedtime.

When dysfunction is present, it is natural to want to hide it, disguise it - put on a brave face. The truth is, this only protects the dysfunction. 

Came home and snuggled with the husband before falling asleep. Keeping my boundaries in check.

 

[LTE]

Had a great time last night with the family. Hubs was connected, kids happy, everyone socialized.

I'm still vigilant about policing my codependency behaviors - I would usually feel anxious about going out in public as a family because I felt like I needed to cover with chatter because there was something off with us as a family unit. Not last night. The kids were relaxed, husband and I had fun - even if it was past our bedtime.

When dysfunction is present, it is natural to want to hide it, disguise it - put on a brave face. The truth is, this only protects the dysfunction. 

Came home and snuggled with the husband before falling asleep. Keeping my boundaries in check.

That sounds lovely. It's a good start; build on it.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

When an addict burps, the codependent says ?excuse me?.

Like P, codependency seems to be habitual. Instead of dopamine, codependency is a rush of security and safety that soon turns into something very different. As human beings we are hard wired for interdependency.

Codependency is a perversion of the healthy psychological needs met with interactions with others.
Codependents relate to others in unhealthy ways with patterns of obsession, self-sacrifice, dysfunctional communication, and control, which are both self-destructive and hurtful to others. They?re often abusive or allow themselves to be abused.

In my codependency I became SO Reboot Partner. His p-addiction deeply affected me and my sense of security, long before I even knew it existed. I reacted predictably, but not effectively. I wanted to ?save him? from PMO addiction, ?save the marriage? and make any sacrifices necessary.

Instead of addressing my diminished security, the thin rations of affection and needs for identity with care for myself, I immersed, obsessed my full being with his ?care? and ?rewiring?. I focused on every little mood or action, gauging my self-value with how he felt at the time, the strength of his erection and how long he could abstain from p or fantasies. He had no need to reciprocate affections and I didn?t complain.

He was allowed to become more selfish and narcissistic because I would not stand up for myself. The addiction had free rein, perhaps even more than before.

I will say the initial success of the reboot was a source of pride for me. This was while I was journaling on yourbrainrebalanced. I truly believed (while I wouldn?t admit it) I was in control of his addiction and I humble-bragged and embraced that lie like a life-preserver. Again, I was getting identity and pride in myself from something I really had no control over. And then the relapse.

Codependency goes with addiction like planting pumpkins next to corn. They just fit together. Unlike interdependency, codependency is about controlling, self-sacrifice and being needed. It isn?t about letting the addict heal.

Here is a list of characteristics for ALL SO REBOOT PARTNERS to Consider.

(Source: http://www.addictionconsulting.com/codependency.htm)

1. My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you
2. My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval from you
3. Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems/relieving your pain
4. My mental attention is focused on you
5. My mental attention is focused on protecting you
6. My mental attention is focused on manipulating you to do it my way
7. My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems
8. My self-esteem is bolstered by relieving your pain
9. My own hobbies/interests are put to one side. My time is spent sharing your hobbies/interests
10. Your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
11. Your behaviour is dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
12. I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.
13. I am not aware of what I want - I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume
14. The dreams I have for my future are linked to you
15. My fear of rejection determines what I say or do
16. My fear of your anger determines what I say or do
17. I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship
18. My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you
19. I put my values aside in order to connect with you
20. I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own
21. The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours

 

[rider654321]

1. My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you
2. My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval from you
3. Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems/relieving your pain
4. My mental attention is focused on you
5. My mental attention is focused on protecting you
6. My mental attention is focused on manipulating you to do it my way
7. My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems
8. My self-esteem is bolstered by relieving your pain
9. My own hobbies/interests are put to one side. My time is spent sharing your hobbies/interests
10. Your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
11. Your behaviour is dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
12. I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.
13. I am not aware of what I want - I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume
14. The dreams I have for my future are linked to you
15. My fear of rejection determines what I say or do
16. My fear of your anger determines what I say or do
17. I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship
18. My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you
19. I put my values aside in order to connect with you
20. I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own
21. The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours

That's interesting SORP as I can relate to all the points I have made the numbers bold to some degree. It makes me question whether I might be the codependent one in our relationship?

For example in (1) and (2) my happiness is directly related to being liked by my wife and having her approval. It's not the only thing that dictates my happiness, but it is a very significant part of it.

(3) My wife does struggles with expressing simple acts of affection towards people other than myself and her few close long term friends. She has trouble allowing herself be vulnerable, and as such, is even reluctant to foster closeness with her other siblings (a side effect of her life as a child). She doesn't mix easily in social situations and sometimes she is mistaken as being aloof or snobbish when in fact she is simply shy and reserved.

This does affect her relationship with my own adult children. She hasn't bonded with them to any significant degree and I haven't seen much evidence that she's willing to make an effort to build a deeper bond with them. I have accepted that's just how she is.

Even though she and I have a great thing together, it feels kind of like I have one relationship with my new wife, and another relationship with my own family. And even though we all live together and get along OK, it feels kind of like a group of flatmates cohabitating together rather than a family unit. 

It does affect my serenity and I do try to help, but research I have read about blended families suggests our situation is quite normal? So I've not put too much emphasis on it. It does feel as though my wife is disconnected from my kids lives, and that does affect my happiness to an extent. For example I worry what will happen to her, if anything happened to me as I can't see her staying on living in the house with my kids after I am gone given there is no close bond between them, even though they get along Ok? 

(5) My thoughts on protecting her from pain have been discussed at length on here regarding the issue of disclosure. But I also feel protective of her in many other ways. I want her to feel secure and loved, desired and respected. (Though I know my addiction was entirely inconsistent with those traits, never the less it's how I feel toward her in my heart).

(7) & (8) I definitely makes me feel good when I make her feel good and help solve her problems.

(14) Yes I have a lot of dreams for our future together and she is a big part of those dreams.

(15) Fear of rejection doesn't have a lot to do with what I say or do, but I am always conscious of the things I say and do and how they will impact upon a person out of courtesy, and I'll do the same for anyone. I'm not a person who will hurt a person intentionally. I admit to being a bit of a people pleaser. Though on the issue of rejection I have already admitted that does play a part in my decision to not disclose my addiction.

(16) I don't fear her rejection or anger on anything other than the issue of disclosure.

(17) I have been generous with gifts to show her how much I love her. I have brought her a sports car, her own motorcycle, and I paid her house off for her so she could then work less days each week and we could spend more time together (long weekends away etc). I don't feel I do this to feel safe in the relationship, rather I do it to enhance our relationship and free up time that we can spend together.   

(19) I have certainly had to set aside my values with regard to "how I think our family unit should feel". I accept no one partner will be all things to all people. She is my new wife, she is not a new mother to my children, so I can't expect her to bond with my children in a way I hoped she might, and therefore I have had to accept a family life that is less than I'd really like it to be. Though our own relationship is good, maintaining that relationship has come at a cost that has seen me loose some of the connection I once had with my kids simply because we now kind of live separate lives under the one roof. If we head out I always kiss my daughter and let her know where we're going, whereas my wife will rarely acknowledge her coming in or going out. I know that's just her personality and shyness. I know she doesn't do it deliberately to alienate my children.

(21) Happy wife happy life as they say. I do work hard to make our life together pleasant and enjoyable.   
       
I'd appreciate your thoughts?

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

I'd appreciate your thoughts?

"7.  My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems."

I have struggled with number seven.

I am a fixer. I like to fix things. I like the way it makes me feel, but it is a false sense of esteem and a trap many narcissist use to feel control over the codependent. The codependent will try and fix, the narcissist then says "nope, try harder" which is like candy because then the codependent does try harder, only to be shot down again.

Narcissists have no relationship with the self, instead relying on a false self - a projected lie. While many narcissists become addicts and are p-addicts, not all p-addicts are narcissists. http://blogs.psychcentral.com/sex/2014/07/narcissism-porn-use-and-addiction/

In many ways, these same horoscope-lists can be "re-interpreted" as true for the Narcissists and the codependent. This is because N's and C's are two sides of the same coin. They attract each other like rare-earth magnets, yet frustrate and repel.

Rider, these are your issues. You already have your answers and your course of action.

 

[rider654321]

That was an interesting and informative article. I never knew of the second type of narcissism, though I suspect I have some traits.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Well. I've been holding my breath, hoping this latest revelation from husband will pass. He tells me he really "isn't interested" in going to counseling. He is afraid he's going to be told he is emotionally empty, because that is how he has always been. It makes me think every thing we've had (or I conjured from acts of hopeful ignorance) as a couple has been a lie for him. Also I am a soul devouring ogre hellbent on mayhem and destruction of his happiness.

When I ask him how he wants to feel he says "comfortable". When I ask what that means, he says he "likes routine".

I can't adapt to a routine of neglect for my psychological needs for affection, identity and growth without going crazy. I think I've proven this to myself. Love becomes pity or a duty. Self-esteem deforms and contorts into something dependent on another's unpredictable whim and fancy rather than a rock on which I build my temple.

I don't hate him, but I do feel a sorrowful sound, just below my heart, that threatens to break free.

I need to move forward, not stand still.

 

[Gracie]

SORP I have no words for this.  I can only imagine the thoughts going through your head. (some may be familiar to me)  This is so difficult.  Whether men tell or don't tell, whether quit or don't quit,  when porn comes in it takes a whole (the marriage) and makes it pieces.  Sometimes not a lot of pieces and sometimes a million little pieces.  And we, as women go around and try to put them back.  And we don't know how.  Something I read comes to mind.  When porn comes in, it is like the women has a cart full of apples and suddenly they spill and she keeps trying to put them back and they keep falling out.  Exhausting.

They don't get that this is an emotional thing.  It is not about sex or no sex, hot body or not hot body, wife turned on or not turned on, them turned on or not turned on.  This is about relationships.  How they relate to people, their wives, girlfriends, co workers, children. It is not about ED.  ED is a symptom, watching porn is a smyptom, not communicating is a symptom, flawed thinking is a symptom, PE or DE  are symtptoms.  If they are not getting all the syptoms out in the open and talking about the symptoms,  the disease, or problem cannot be diagnosed.  Often the words are about how this has affected them.  They want to protect people which is "I am afraid to deal with the reaction."  The narcissism anology is so true.  The words that are said often ring hollow.  Men, please understand the physical relationship is important, but knowing that we truly have you as our mate, body and soul is the thing that matters most.  And with that, we will respond to you. 

SORP  truly keep putting one foot in front of the other.   

 

[rider654321]

SORP I am so sorry to hear things have not worked out as you hoped they might. It must be heartbreaking   

The support you gave your husband warranted much better behaviour from him, and you yourself deserved to feel so much better in return.

When I first read through your entire journal a few weeks back I had strong suspicions that your husband may have a narcissistic personality? The descriptions you gave of his interaction, admiration and infatuation for his former secretary rang narc alarm bells, and left me feeling his PMO issue may not have been the only challenge you were facing going forward.   

I know a bit about this because my former wife is a narcissist. I had no idea what a narcissist was until we separated after 28 years, and other people close to me started to tell me things they could see happening in our marriage that I couldn't see.

It was actually my (then) 19yo son of all people that pointed out to me that Mum's behaviour was narcissistic. He then sent me a link to a page that explained what narcissism was all about.
A lot of the pieces from our past all of a sudden all fell into place.

As heartbreaking as I know it must be for you, you have done all that you possibly could and more to help your husband. The reality is, and others have expressed this view earlier in this thread, no one can help an addict that's not prepared to help themselves, and I can only imagine the turmoil that must go on within the mind of a narcissistic addict as they attempt to deal with both issues?

I feel sorry for your hubby too, and I suspect he will only realise the magnitude of his foolishness once your no longer a part of his life. One day in the future he may just realise what a terribly silly man he was to have had someone like you who was prepared to be so patient and supportive, and yet he did not do his part to honour and value all that you did for him.

Though, having said that, if he is indeed a narcissist he will likely lack the empathy to ever truly see things from your perspective.   

I wish you the courage and strength to continue to move forward with your life. You deserve so much better than you have settled for in the past. 

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

Gracie - I don't think our struggles really upsets the men. They will cover their heads and blame the ex, the SO, anybody but themselves for their disconnect.

I'm past emotional betrayal. He's happy. I need to accept he wants a life that does not include me happy.

The thing about  narcissism is that it isn't just bravado and bragging, feigned compassion  - it is complete affection for a false self. Husband sees himself as the perfect dad, even though he sits in the parking lot at kiddo #1 club meetings looking at his ipad. He believes he has been the perfect husband. Just look at the opportunity he gave me to work in his office. Why I love working for the family good, unpaid, compared to some imaginary ideal and unappreciated (it keeps me on my toes) because service is satisfaction. It is such bullshit.

He liked having the tall blond secretary (this was in his mind, reality is she is kinda flat-chested, straw haired and snaggle toothed, while I am a still striking brunette with green eyes, also I have a nice rack, education and better posture) because he thought it "elevated his position with other men" to have a tall blond secretary. Have is the key here. He believes he deserves these "things", the trophy wife, the emotional side piece, the kids, the house the status and perfectly run office. People are things  that define for others that false self in his emotionally empty world.

I wear a man's watch. It should remind me that he is a narcissist.

A few years ago he told me he wanted a watch for his birthday. He wanted a watch that he didn't have to change the date on it, because he felt this was something he was beyond doing. His specifications were pretty general, yet detailed - Not a digital watch, had to be analog. These watch specifications are insanely expensive. The codependent in me was filled with purpose and on the hunt.

I found a really nice self winding Seiko watch for $800 that only needed a manual date change every four years had a perpetual calendar good until the year 2100 (edit: I just checked this). He rejected it, telling me it was a "nice try" and bought himself a Rolex. I wear that Seiko watch and I've come to love it. It keeps time well, feels good and substantial. It is better than any delicate lady thing I've ever worn. I'm keeping the watch; I'm moving on from the relationship that has me running in circles for specifications I can never meet.

Here's the thing about THE RELATIONSHIP ASPECT that I think these guys need to understand. It isn't the relationship with the wife, the girlfriend, the wife and the girlfriend or whatever that needs care - IT IS the relationship with the self that is really messed up here. Beyond the past, the childhood the religious or non-religous or hurts and trauma - it is how one sees themselves and reconciles that with the world - Wife/Girlfriend relationships come after that.

When the relationship with self is healthy, healthy relationships with others becomes possible. For the unhealthy, well there's porn and other self manipulations.

We cannot fix a partner's broken relationship with the self.

Whew, re-reading that I think I just had a eureka moment.

 

[rider654321]

A few years ago he told me he wanted a watch for his birthday. He wanted a watch that he didn't have to change the date on it, because he felt this was something he was beyond doing. His specifications were pretty general, yet detailed - Not a digital watch, had to be analog. These watch specifications are insanely expensive. The codependent in me was filled with purpose and on the hunt.

I found a really nice self winding Seiko watch for $800 that only needed a manual date change every four years had a perpetual calendar good until the year 2100 (edit: I just checked this). He rejected it, telling me it was a "nice try" and bought himself a Rolex. I wear that Seiko watch and I've come to love it. It keeps time well, feels good and substantial. It is better than any delicate lady thing I've ever worn. I'm keeping the watch; I'm moving on from the relationship that has me running in circles for specifications I can never meet.

Wow SORP ... that's text book narcissism on the part of your hubby. I am glad for you that you are finally drawing a line in the sand and moving on from this toxic relationship, though I am sad you have had to endure so much for so long to reach this point. You are deserving of so much better.

 

[SO Reboot Partner]

?How wrong is it for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself??
? Ana?s Nin