Man_in_30s_trying_to_quit_from_last_10years

GeminiMan

Well-Known Member
That's right. Nobody said it's easy. Diverting your attention from the hypersexual thoughts is not easy. It's a habit taken to extreme, very deeply ingrained in the brain. After reading William's thread, even the first few pages, I've understood one thing, he was basically the only one who has ever made me exceed my limits, I've understood one thing: You can't quit porn addiction by keeping your dopamine levels high because the definition of porn addiction is keeping your dopamine levels high. We need to not give attention to the hypersexual thoughts created by our porn world. It's not easy, it was very hard, imagine those days when I was having mad urges (extreme arousal) and I forced myself not to play the porn in my head. It worked. It works. And I think this is a habit too, this can become a habit too and it needs to become a habit: Diverting the attention from the hypersexual thoughts. It needs to become a habit for us. As soon as they start, we need the automatic response of "looking away" from them, so to speak. The addicted brain will try aggresively to make us use porn. Images, memory of past great sessions etc. are one of its best tools. Cut the tools from the source and the brain can kiss goodbye. But I know all this is not as easy as it sounds but it can be done. If a broken guy like me could go for 50 days without porn by only doing this thing, then it must be something, it's opened a different perspective in my mind one where I can get longer streaks if I want to. But because I am a fuckin alcoholic, all that went out the window, I lose my streaks because I can't stay away from drinking, but this is a different discussion.
Wondering Does the same thing hold good for alcohol addiction also ?
perhaps divert your upcoming train of thoughts that make you go grab that next bottle ?
i am not sure if it is same thing cuz I am a zero proof guy struggling with chatroom addiction only.
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
Wondering Does the same thing hold good for alcohol addiction also ?
perhaps divert your upcoming train of thoughts that make you go grab that next bottle ?
i am not sure if it is same thing cuz I am a zero proof guy struggling with chatroom addiction only.
It definitely does. Thoughts about the drug or behavior trigger the dopamine and the dopamine is what pushes you to seek that thing, that thing becomes irresistible. It would definitely help to divert my attention from thoughts of great drinking sessions. Maybe this is what us the addicts do when we think about our drug, we think about great sessions from the past. The "Chasing the first time" is not just an expression. I'm not chasing the first time per se, I don't even remember the first time with both, but I definitely constantly try to re-live some amazing experiences with porn and alcohol, even though, at least with alcohol, I've had countless of bad experiences. What my brain remembers is the great days with alcohol where the euphoria was just perfect. Porn too. But the bad repercussions become a distant memory after a while. People tell me to think about the post-relapse misery or the lethargy and the high social anxiety that follow me for days after binges but all this becomes a distant memory, it doesn't stay in my mind as vivid as it is when I actually experience it. That's why I told myself: "You know, maybe things like that could help but you don't seem to be able to quit this by relying too heavily on them, you need actual tactics to use." Hence the "keep the dopamine low" type of thing that I've come up with after reading William's page. It is an actual tactic for me to implement and it worked at one point, it hasn't been working for a while because honestly I've given up on using it and this is my fault.
 
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GeminiMan

Well-Known Member
I see … chatrooms have been my “pleasure zone” the place where I automatically go to avoid unpleasant situations or to fill the void that is created in my mind due to various day to day situations that come and go .

if I could find something alternative then of a “pleasure zone” which actually takes away my unpleasant feelings or feelings of void or emptiness that would solve half the problem .

Now the other half of the problem is minds craving for the exact kind of sensations “filthy chats and P” will create in body and mind .
that is the one that gets me ! Honestly I don’t have a replacement for that in my life today which is why I am suffering giving into it every 6 days .

One possible replacement I could think of for fulfilling sexual urges is a healthy periodic “sex with my partner” and that …. Has been a challenge in recent years because of various reasons (including my chat habits and other relationship problems I have with my partner)

Now , this is a tricky one for me to deal with …
What can I do to improve my situation?
Well there are options as I think through this
1) make regular mating with my partner a routine
2) find alternative “pleasure zones” , meaning an engaging new habit which is constructive to my life Vs being destructive like P or chat
3) actually keep my “dopamine low” on a day to day basis by avoiding engaging with all the things that heat up dopamine inside my head
4) even if I do start mating with my partner the chaser affect still gets me ! Like the day after I mate with my partner , my mind is not satisfied. It couldn’t get that “high” it used to get from Chat or P session so there I go give in again !

so it seems like all roads lead to relapse for me ! That’s how atleast how I see it for myself
of course my vision is now fogged and blurred and numbed by my addictive behaviors I have been exhibiting. so I may not be seeing my life’s path ahead clearly .
 
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GeminiMan

Well-Known Member
day 2 . Listening to “breaking the cycle” George Collins MA audiobook again .

please recommend books/audio that has positively impacted your reboot journey 🙏

I have read these already
1) your brain on porn
2)Easypeasymethod.org
3)Breaking the cycle
4)automic habits - James clear
5) The Power of Habit - Charles Duhigg

All these have had profound impact on my life at some point .
 
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Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
day 2 . Listening to “breaking the cycle” George Collins MA audiobook again .

please recommend books/audio that has positively impacted your reboot journey 🙏

I have read these already
1) your brain on porn
2)Easypeasymethod.org
3)Breaking the cycle
4)automic habits - James clear
5) The Power of Habit - Charles Duhigg

All these have had profound impact on my life at some point .
Good books, man. Recovery by Russell Brand has had an impact for me recently because I can relate to his story. But I don't think it's a book for everyone, it's for the broken souls, the people with a completely shattered inner world, for people who only know how to navigate life by self-medication. It's for me.
 

SimonM

Active Member
Focus not just on having sex with your partner but actually healing/building your relationship. Maybe you already are of course. I find that especially when we try to quit porn we sometimes have such a strong need to replace that sexual energy that we really expect, consciously or unconsciously, our partner to give us all that. But we may not realize that our whole relationship needs work - spend time chatting, going on a date, cuddling, doing the things together that made us fall in love in the first place...

That can also give a more lasting "high" from being with that person maybe than just having sex?
 

GeminiMan

Well-Known Member
Focus not just on having sex with your partner but actually healing/building your relationship. Maybe you already are of course. I find that especially when we try to quit porn we sometimes have such a strong need to replace that sexual energy that we really expect, consciously or unconsciously, our partner to give us all that. But we may not realize that our whole relationship needs work - spend time chatting, going on a date, cuddling, doing the things together that made us fall in love in the first place...

That can also give a more lasting "high" from being with that person maybe than just having sex?
Thanks for pointing that out @SimonM I do Agree . P destroys intimacy btw couples(certainly mine is gone for a Toss) and the addict in a couple(me) need to adjust his/her expectations from sex with the partner , it cannot give that high which P gives but also it never gives such lows that P gives as well.

I think Instead sex with partners post addiction takes a lot of effort along with rebuilding and nurturing the personal love and intimacy btw couples already destroyed by P habits .

It’s a mandatory requirement for addicts already in a marriage/relationship that they must work on rebuilding their intimacy and love with partners and in the process loose the focus on P habits at the same time .

Unfortunately in my case my relationship with wife is not going great when it comes to intimacy and love . It’s just a sexless loveless marriage we are in right now and if I don’t work on it now then it will be too late and I might loose it all for the sake of my chatroom addiction.

I am now seeing how big of an impact my chatroom addiction can make eventually if I don’t intervene right now and rebuild my marriage and intimacy with my wife .
 

Phineas 808

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Day 5 sober
I will be referring to my sobriety date instead of saying day 1,2,3 etc . I feel I am building pressure inside my mind to relapse when I say day 1,2,3 etc rather I am saying from today

my sobriety date is 6/21/2022

This is so important to recognize, and to frame things in a way that best supports your recovery efforts.

Good job, GeminiMan!
 

GeminiMan

Well-Known Member
my sobriety date is 6/21/2022

Yesterday I got tempted and logged into chatroom and couldn’t chat as I was dead tired .
so I slept and woke up only to find myself chatting again.

couple mistakes I did last night
1. Overate
2. Stayed awake when I should have been hitting the bed
3. Didn’t stop myself from logging into chatroom

mistake I am making today
1. Logging into chatroom again and chatting filthy

What should I do now?
Same routine … stay away from phone and chat sites and re establish normal daily routine and do not sneak back into chat site again .

what will I do ?
I don’t know… I have conflicting desires running in my mind that are fighting out each other .

But

I certainly need to help myself here to avoid a relapse and unwanted chat induced MO.
No one else is coming to pluck me out of addiction. I have to make my tough decisions against my illicit desires and guard my sobriety.
 

GeminiMan

Well-Known Member
my sobriety date is 6/21/2022

Yesterday I got tempted and logged into chatroom and couldn’t chat as I was dead tired .
so I slept and woke up only to find myself chatting again.

couple mistakes I did last night
1. Overate
2. Stayed awake when I should have been hitting the bed
3. Didn’t stop myself from logging into chatroom

mistake I am making today
1. Logging into chatroom again and chatting filthy

What should I do now?
Same routine … stay away from phone and chat sites and re establish normal daily routine and do not sneak back into chat site again .

what will I do ?
I don’t know… I have conflicting desires running in my mind that are fighting out each other .

But

I certainly need to help myself here to avoid a relapse and unwanted chat induced MO.
No one else is coming to pluck me out of addiction. I have to make my tough decisions against my illicit desires and guard my sobriety.
The bad desires kept growing session after session of chatting and it was too late to bring myself back to any kind of sobriety and I MOed up last evening.

my new sobriety day is now 06/28/2022

when I look back in introspection I feel I have been thinking about my urges as unstoppable force and something I need to oblige to and make way out of my day to day so that the force can run through me no matter what and has to end up in an MO.

That is really not the case .
The urges are stoppable and could be diverted if done properly on time .
I don’t have to create space out of nowhere for my urges to prevail and MO me . in fact if I don’t create space it will gradually subside and go away . I just need to survive the waves and gradually survival will also begin to get easier and easier with practice.
I need to take action and command when the sexual energy build up starts within my body and mind and channel that energy into my work/hobby/life .
I need to keep telling myself that I will not die by surviving urges and I will not die if I don't chat/watch P/cam sites .
Adhering to certain lifestyle schedule discipline will help me in recovery and also will bring in progress/happiness/prosperity into my life .
 

Phineas 808

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
The urges are stoppable and could be diverted if done properly on time .
I don’t have to create space out of nowhere for my urges to prevail and MO me . in fact if I don’t create space it will gradually subside and go away . I just need to survive the waves and gradually survival will also begin to get easier and easier with practice.
I need to take action and command when the sexual energy build up starts within my body and mind and channel that energy into my work/hobby/life .
I need to keep telling myself that I will not die by surviving urges and I will not die if I don't chat/watch P/cam sites .

You say a lot of truth here, but if I can add a little...

The urges are not something to think of as stoppable, but as something to be ignored entirely. To say 'stoppable' implies that we have to directly engage them, which only strengthens them. Ignoring them I think is the same as you saying to 'not create space for them'- and as you said, they will gradually subside and go away. Urges are like a bell-curve, they rise, they peak, and then they subside- even when they feel so intense- but they always subside. I like how you referred to them as 'waves', because sometimes they come in waves- this is where the term 'urge surfing' comes in. Again, you're right to say that it gets easier with practice. This is why we need to be merciful to ourselves, because this stuff takes practice.

I think when the sexual energy builds up you needn't worry about it, as it may be the lower brain trying to trick you into engaging with the urges. Just go about your day, focus on being as productive/creative as possible, and the energy will go where it needs to naturally.

You will not die- like you said, you can outlast any urge. Be well!
 

GeminiMan

Well-Known Member
You say a lot of truth here, but if I can add a little...

The urges are not something to think of as stoppable, but as something to be ignored entirely. To say 'stoppable' implies that we have to directly engage them, which only strengthens them. Ignoring them I think is the same as you saying to 'not create space for them'- and as you said, they will gradually subside and go away. Urges are like a bell-curve, they rise, they peak, and then they subside- even when they feel so intense- but they always subside. I like how you referred to them as 'waves', because sometimes they come in waves- this is where the term 'urge surfing' comes in. Again, you're right to say that it gets easier with practice. This is why we need to be merciful to ourselves, because this stuff takes practice.

I think when the sexual energy builds up you needn't worry about it, as it may be the lower brain trying to trick you into engaging with the urges. Just go about your day, focus on being as productive/creative as possible, and the energy will go where it needs to naturally.

You will not die- like you said, you can outlast any urge. Be well!
Thank you @Phineas 808 .
It can quickly turn into a frustrating self condemning routine and it has in my case . I caught the words there you said “be merciful on yourself” it takes practice and kindness on yourself .

in this for 20 years now (starting chat habit at 19 or so now I am 37) so it does feel like all my recovery efforts it is going nowhere . But I have been building foundations of wisdom and experience and knowledge and character upon which of a sober life may start to eventually prevail .

For that to happen there are a list of things that need to change . It is falling into place for sure ! It is just a matter of when! and not of if!

I just need to realize sobriety is within my reach and I just need to keep taking those leaps and believe in myself each time and eventually I will be able to master my leaps over waves of day to day pitfalls which will get me to the other end! The sober Self!
 

Escapeandnevercomeback

Respected Member
You say a lot of truth here, but if I can add a little...

The urges are not something to think of as stoppable, but as something to be ignored entirely. To say 'stoppable' implies that we have to directly engage them, which only strengthens them. Ignoring them I think is the same as you saying to 'not create space for them'- and as you said, they will gradually subside and go away. Urges are like a bell-curve, they rise, they peak, and then they subside- even when they feel so intense- but they always subside. I like how you referred to them as 'waves', because sometimes they come in waves- this is where the term 'urge surfing' comes in. Again, you're right to say that it gets easier with practice. This is why we need to be merciful to ourselves, because this stuff takes practice.

I think when the sexual energy builds up you needn't worry about it, as it may be the lower brain trying to trick you into engaging with the urges. Just go about your day, focus on being as productive/creative as possible, and the energy will go where it needs to naturally.

You will not die- like you said, you can outlast any urge. Be well!
Exactly. More people saying this thing shows that it's the thing to do. I've been saying something like this too and I started thinking about it after reading William's page: The porn addict in us asks for attention and if we give him attention he has a chance to succeed (in most cases he does). We need to develop a habit of not giving attention to porn. Avoiding visual porn goes without saying but porn is not just visual, it's also in the head, in memories (flashbacks and memory of great experiences with porn) and things the addicted us tells us to convince us. Anytime you engage with porn in any form, you can set yourself for failure. I believe that even by saying opposite things that the addicted you tells you (Porn is amazing, no it's not), gives attention to porn. I think the ultimate goal is to develop a habit where you actually don't do anything else but look away from the porn inside the head, because if avoiding visual porn is done right, this is how you start and lead yourself to visual porn eventually, you play porn inside the head and then you play it on computer. It can happen so fast. In 30 seconds of watching porn inside the head or debating the addicted brain you can be right in front of the PC watching. Most of us around here can tell when it starts in the head. It doesn't have to be complicated. When I really want to do this right, I distract myself as soon as porn and thoughts start in my head. I used to use the "play something else in your head so you don't play porn" type of thing where I would imagine myself doing something so I don't focus on porn images.

Also, I want to address this: It's true that urges are waves but what happens to some guys sometimes, and myself too, is that we experience sometimes urges all day, it's like they start in the morning and don't stop until the evening, not exactly continuously (yes, waves) but they keep coming, in 5 minutes they come again, in 10 minutes they come again, you know what I'm saying? And eventually some guys (and myself too) give up and relapse. It's something to keep in mind. But yes, doing the thing in the first paragraph helps with the thing in the second, even though it's annoying as fuck and what happens to me is that if I survive a few days like that, where I'm left alone by urges only in the evening, there come easier days too. So this is something else to keep in mind as well: Urges might feel like they go on forever but they don't. It's just a matter of remembering that it's not urges 24/7, 365 type of thing.
 

GeminiMan

Well-Known Member
Exactly. More people saying this thing shows that it's the thing to do. I've been saying something like this too and I started thinking about it after reading William's page: The porn addict in us asks for attention and if we give him attention he has a chance to succeed (in most cases he does). We need to develop a habit of not giving attention to porn. Avoiding visual porn goes without saying but porn is not just visual, it's also in the head, in memories (flashbacks and memory of great experiences with porn) and things the addicted us tells us to convince us. Anytime you engage with porn in any form, you can set yourself for failure. I believe that even by saying opposite things that the addicted you tells you (Porn is amazing, no it's not), gives attention to porn. I think the ultimate goal is to develop a habit where you actually don't do anything else but look away from the porn inside the head, because if avoiding visual porn is done right, this is how you start and lead yourself to visual porn eventually, you play porn inside the head and then you play it on computer. It can happen so fast. In 30 seconds of watching porn inside the head or debating the addicted brain you can be right in front of the PC watching. Most of us around here can tell when it starts in the head. It doesn't have to be complicated. When I really want to do this right, I distract myself as soon as porn and thoughts start in my head. I used to use the "play something else in your head so you don't play porn" type of thing where I would imagine myself doing something so I don't focus on porn images.

Also, I want to address this: It's true that urges are waves but what happens to some guys sometimes, and myself too, is that we experience sometimes urges all day, it's like they start in the morning and don't stop until the evening, not exactly continuously (yes, waves) but they keep coming, in 5 minutes they come again, in 10 minutes they come again, you know what I'm saying? And eventually some guys (and myself too) give up and relapse. It's something to keep in mind. But yes, doing the thing in the first paragraph helps with the thing in the second, even though it's annoying as fuck and what happens to me is that if I survive a few days like that, where I'm left alone by urges only in the evening, there come easier days too. So this is something else to keep in mind as well: Urges might feel like they go on forever but they don't. It's just a matter of remembering that it's not urges 24/7, 365 type of thing.
Nicely said @Escapeandnevercomeback .
We all need to become experts in ignoring the P pokes our mind throws at us day in day out .
That may be the skill needed here to save the life ! Absolutely!
 

Phineas 808

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
in this for 20 years now (starting chat habit at 19 or so now I am 37) so it does feel like all my recovery efforts it is going nowhere . But I have been building foundations of wisdom and experience and knowledge and character upon which of a sober life may start to eventually prevail .

For that to happen there are a list of things that need to change . It is falling into place for sure ! It is just a matter of when! and not of if!

You're welcome, GeminiMan! You will overcome!

My struggle also spans decades, so I'm feeling that. I agree with what you're saying above for its linear format... but, and this is my approach now (having myself several trauma and upbringing issues) is as two-track, parallel or mulit-dimensional.

1. Adress the habit itself by hacking into it, disrupting and replacing the behavioral patterns; and-

2. Seek deeper inner healing to address the major drivers of the addiction.

The first needn't be delayed while the second is worked on, and the second needn't wait for the first. True, the second one is deeper and addresses foundational reasons why we got addicted to this crap to begin with, but without addressing the first as a matter of priority, we won't see clearly enough to address the deeper issues.

Thus the 'when' should be now, addressing the outer (habit-level, symptom level) and the 'if' can't ignore the inner issues.
 
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