Started Friday July 3rd

[workinprogressUK]

I have avoided sex with my SO at points in time, because I didn't feel able to participate without "brain porn" and, at those times, it felt more important to me to avoid the P than to have sex. With the benefit of hindsight.... I'm not sure it was the right course of action.... for me, because it sent out some seriously confusing signals to my wife, and probably contributed to emotional and physical withdrawal on both sides. I'm not saying it's wrong for you.... or right . I'm much better able to separate the two nowadays and stay present, after many years of stumbling recovery, but I still cross the line sometimes. For me... and again, these are just my experiences and views.... I've been more able to stay mindfully in the moment when I've felt a warm, emotional, connection with my wife..... than when I just felt horny and wanted to get my rocks off. Don't know if that makes any sense to you or others. Wishing you a successful day.

 

[TheNorman]

That makes a lot of sense. There have been times in the past where we were being affectionate with each other and I've become more aggressive, which is not my loving mind at work, it's the testosterone-fueled horniness mixed with some bad P influence. Something to keep an eye on and continue to communicate with my SO about where I'm at.

 

[Andrew1973]

I took the decision as part of this 'reboot' to never MO alone, something which I shared with my wife. I've imposed it on myself as a bit of a 'red line' in the same way that I have tried to with fantasy. Reason being if I cross those lines, then escalation becomes much easier at some point in the future. So, if for some reason sex is not on the agenda, my wife may 'help me out', and failing that I may MO myself with her present. Not necessarily right for all, but works for me, and has her approval. Just need to get it down from 3 times a day now (only joking!!)

 

[Leonidas]

*Trigger warning/question*.
I have MO'd and PMO'd 6/7 days on average since I was 14. The longest streak of not doing either was probably a week at best. Since July 3rd I have MO'd twice, both after spending some "quality time" with my SO and then using that as my fuel for MO (she was aware that I would be doing so as well). Both times I was completely present in my thoughts about her and my desire to be with her. I do worry that at some point I will MO and my thoughts will flash to porn which would feel like a step back but like I said, the two times were entirely about my SO in my mind and I felt no remorse after either time. My SO and I haven't had sex since this started either because I can't guarantee that my mind won't wander to porn. Is MO and or sex something that you guys have avoided for those reasons and if so when did you feel like you could without it being an issue?

Interested to hear any insights you guys may have.

As people recovering from extensive porn use, we are 'primed' to be afraid of the link between M and porn.  We're afraid of relapsing tomorrow, or worse of never being completely free of the patterns.  Thing is, if the fear is extinguished then the likelihood of porn ever being a problem again will virtually be a non-issue.  So more than anything, we should be addressing that fear.  The camaraderie and social support on this forum is a boon for recovery; but the focus on not M'ing because it might lead to P, might not be as helpful.. worse still it can actually fuel fear.

M or sex is basically a way for a man to psychologically affirm himself (as you put it, "engage in your desire to be with your SO").  The fact you felt no remorse is proof enough that there is nothing wrong with how you approached the M.  It is crucial I would say, in defining our past quest for porn as an unskillful attempt to 'connect' with our sexual identity.  So a mental porn image that pops here and there out of the blue is not going to spell your doom!  As long as you mindfully decide to sidestep porn and instead choose to connect to your own vision of sexuality, you have little to fear of it reverting back to P...

 

[BigChanges66]

Thanks Leonidas.  Your comment about connecting with a sexual identity raises an interesting question.  It seems that as some of us go down the P rabbit hole, myself included, the fantasies that trigger it often change to the point where the identity developed in the use of P is different or very counter to our IRL sexual identity.  So is part of the rebooting process re-engaging with a healthier sexual identity while disengaging from the P-related identity?  Can this happen concurrently or do you think a person has to disengage from P first before re-building that healthier sexual identity?

In reading through some different threads, the answer may different for those guys that are in a relationship compared to those that are single.  Is there actually the potential for the SO to be helping re-build that identity that could also help re-build or strengthen that relationship?

Just letting my thoughts ramble here.  Hope everyone is doing well.

Thanks,
BC66

 

[TheNorman]

Thanks Leonidas and BigChanges, I definitely see the mess I've let porn make in my head in relation to sexual identity, hence why I'm avoiding a lot of sexual things as I try to wade through that. My wife and I have kissed and cuddled and I've been affectionate with her and I MO'd after some affectionate time with her and that's all felt really good, not just physically but emotionally (which was a big part of me that was shut off to so much emotional connection stuff).

I had my first therapy session with my new therapist and it was very much centred around how I have used things like drugs and porn to help cope with traumatic things in my past and emotions I wasn't able to deal with. I am working on dealing with ways to work through things and sex and sexuality are part of that. I will be doing Brainspotting/EMDR as well going forward so I will post how that goes.

Thanks again for all your feedback guys. My therapist wanted me to look at the things I've accomplished so far and give myself some credit for those achievements. I'm extending that to all of you here:

You're making positive changes and you should feel very good about that. You've done something brave by coming here and you're doing something remarkable by working to improve your life.

 

[workinprogressUK]

You're making positive changes and you should feel very good about that. You've done something brave by coming here and you're doing something remarkable by working to improve your life.

Congrats on that. You are making positive changes. Your brain chemistry is changing for the better and your outcomes will improve as a result. You've taken the road less travelled and you should be proud of it.

 

[Joel]

Hi Norm,
Great work on the positive changes. I find it hard to answer questions as I feel like the blind leading the blind. But do you know 'porn free radio' (matt dobschuetz)? It's a great resource - hours of content so I listen to bit every day and stay inspired - loads of answers there. I'd recommend it. Keep on crushing it!

 

[Andrew1973]

It's really great to witness the incredible progress you've made in the last 4 weeks since your first post TheNorman - also the contribution you have made to this community in such a short space of time. Great to have you on the bus!

 

[TheNorman]

I feel such gratitude for this forum and for you guys. You have all helped me see so many of my own struggles from a different, more healthy perspective. Thank you all so much for taking the time to offer advice, or stories of your own struggles.

My SO and I had a long emotional talk last night about a lot of things, but one of them stemmed from me visiting my office. Some of my coworkers were triggers for PMO in the past. All part of the ogling, hyper-sexualization that porn helps to flourish. I had gone to drop off some files and assured her I would go in, drop the files and leave without visiting, but when I found out who was there (all "safe" people in my mind) I went in and said hello.

This was a good example of thinking only of myself and what I was comfortable with and not considering that knowing about that past behaviour is very difficult for my SO and I should be avoiding anything that brings those feelings to the forefront. Once again, we had some tough talks about it, and I'm proud of how I handled it.

It is so hard though, working through all this stuff just within myself while being aware of her feelings while also not withholding things even though I know it will be tough for her to hear as it's important I am open and honest...It's dizzying. We are getting ready to go north to our cottage for 3 weeks. It will be a very welcome chance to relax and spend time together without work or other distractions. Don't worry though! I'll be checking in here often.

 

[TheNorman]

My wife's aunts funeral today. I felt like I handled it ok. It was obviously very sad but I let myself feel sad for others whereas in the past it may have been more self-pity or wallowing in my own shit to really feel empathy...or maybe when you feel like you're lying to everyone you know, grief is just another emotion you disconnect from. Regardless, as difficult as it was, it felt genuine and I am realizing every day: It's better to feel legitimately bad and learn from it than it is to run from feeling anything.

The funeral was in a large public garden and there were a lot of women around. It makes me sad that I feel the need to avoid looking around because I know if I see an attractive woman it becomes that "pervy ogling" that PMO helps to feed. There was no avoiding seeing people but just by being aware of the issues I have had, it allowed logic to take over and not turn it into something more sinister. As much as that is all working I never thought I'd say this but I will be happy in the fall when women are wearing jackets!

Off to the great white north tomorrow for a long vacation. I'll be checking in regularly though. Stay strong lads!

 

[Andrew1973]

I am realizing every day: It's better to feel legitimately bad and learn from it than it is to run from feeling anything.

So true theNorman - better to experience life in all its glory AND pain than to try and selectively escape from the bits that you have a pre-programmed aversion to. A I once read that in a beautiful tapestry the dark threads are as important as the golden ones in creating the said thing of beauty. Probably misquoted that badly, but the sentiment is something I can identify with.
Have a great vacation!

 

[workinprogressUK]

It's better to feel legitimately bad and learn from it than it is to run from feeling anything.

That's a heavy one! So true.
You seem to be experiencing a lot of clarity at the moment. Seeing things for what they are and consistently rolling your processes to maintain healthy attitudes and behaviours. Congrats on that. Kind of inspiring. Hope you have a great holiday and come back strong.

 

[Joel]

sorry to hear about the tough times. Goodness, this was really a point for myself where I would 'self-medicate' and numb with porn. What I didn't realise was my wounds weren't healing and I dragged out a period of mourning for years. Learnt my lesson though.

 

[TheNorman]

Man I feel like I've missed a lot in the past couple days. I've made a real effort to disconnect from everything and just focus on my relationship with my kids and my wife (with some positive reinforcement from my wife, as in the past "vacation" has just meant checking email less). The few days I've been away have been fantastic. More physical activity in beautiful nature, more time with the family just enjoying each others company without the stress of work. The amount of temptation is just less in general as the little time I spent online aside from work is even less now.

The first days after stopping PMO were loaded with just absolute live-wires of emotion and confusion, flashes of porn and a lot of difficult discussions with my SO. Now over a month later, if there's an issue it's just a discussion. Flashes are few and far between and I'm equipped to move on from them without beating myself up but without hiding them either. Covid has been a surprise blessing in that it has allowed us so much more time to connect. We have some tough decisions to make going forward in regards to school for our kids and safety, but armed with my newfound focus and awareness I feel like it's something we can figure out. In the past it might have been an excuse to check out mentally.

I'm happy to see a lot of activity on here, knowing that you are all supporting each other through your journeys. I will make more of an effort to check in despite my remoteness. Posting on here even when I feel like things are going great is very important to me. I hope you are all being kind to yourselves, finding your path, even if it means walking through some brambles. Post again soon!

 

[workinprogressUK]

Sounds like a great opportunity to reconnect with yourself and the people you care for, which is helping you reinforce your new processes and foundations. Such a benefit to get some time off the grid. Enjoy! And thanks for updating from your vacation.

 

[Andrew1973]

but armed with my newfound focus and awareness I feel like it's something we can figure out. In the past it might have been an excuse to check out mentally.

Great observation TheNorman - It's little bits of gratitude like this that I think can reinforce our resolve when things get tough. Spotting those 'blessings' that arise from our success (and then remembering them) is just as important as identifying the triggers that can put us at risk. Really pleased that things are going well for you!

 

[TheNorman]

Had another therapy session today that went really well. Focused purely on tools to handle things better. I'm generally a positive person, but rarely so positive or forgiving with myself. THAT is what feels the hardest right now. PMO, lying, checking out...all that doesn't seem like it is anything I miss. Allowing myself some grace however is like pulling teeth. Just from reading around the recent posts, I have to wonder: Are we overly negative because of the shit that PMO has dumped into our heads, or were we negative enough beforehand to allow it to fester? I don't know which is the horse and which is the cart but I hope that my mind will pass them both, broken down and rusted, as it speeds towards a happy fulfilling life like a Ferrari.

 

[TheNorman]

Man, today was just spectacular. No flashes, no temptations. My hockey team won. I went golfing and my SO caddied for me when before that wouldn't have been even in the realm of possibility. Sat out on the water and watched a bald eagle soar overhead. My SO talked about some of the things that are bothering her. And I just listened, was present, offered advice. It felt incredible. Days like today are what I work for. Hope everyone goes into the weekend with energy and resolve on their sides.

 

[ZiggyBoo]

Great job TheNorman, it sounds like you?re in a great place coming into to weekend.. must have been nice to have you?re wife take an interest in your golf too and I?m sure you chatted on the course as she caddied for you