I know I can do it. I can feel myself getting closer to success.

[jonazo91]

Nope, I almost immediately relapsed and PMO this morning. Sometimes I get a voice while I'm in the middle of it that says "well at least just finish up fast and be done with it." I also have a voice that says "just stop altogether, right now," but that one I listen to only for a few minutes before returning again. But that's the voice I need to listen to. The "be done with it quickly" voice is an excuse-maker and just another version of my addict brain trying to bargain for more drugs. I have a million excuses and ways to tell myself "it's not that bad." They're getting real old.



PMO last week: 3
PMO this week: 1
Current streak: 0 days
Day 0.

 

[jonazo91]

Another day another relapse. I'm running out of observations or things to say I've learned from this time. I've learned that I'm in trouble and have no will to get myself out of it. I've learned I have the ability to turn on and off my moral compass as I see fit.

PMO last week: 3
PMO this week: 2
Current streak: 0 days
Day 0.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

Another day another relapse. I'm running out of observations or things to say I've learned from this time. I've learned that I'm in trouble and have no will to get myself out of it. I've learned I have the ability to turn on and off my moral compass as I see fit.

PMO last week: 3
PMO this week: 2
Current streak: 0 days
Day 0.

I'm not doing better either. The thing about drawing conclusions from this or observations is that there is no conclusion to draw anymore, we know what it is. I also think we know how to get out. But what the problem is, in my opinion, is that very few people want to do the work. It's hard work. Building a life where you don't need to medicate is not easy, who thinks this is easy is lying to himself just so he could justify the use. Very few people want to do the work required with all the sufferings, frustrations and hardships that are going to be on the path. Even when you go to 12 steps they put you to work, all the steps require you to do things, it's more focused on "internal work", to fix yourself from inside out. Else, how the fuck do we think someone could quit? So that's the thing, when we don't want to do the work, we can only come around here and write relapses.

 

[Jinx2109]

I'm not doing better either. The thing about drawing conclusions from this or observations is that there is no conclusion to draw anymore, we know what it is. I also think we know how to get out. But what the problem is, in my opinion, is that very few people want to do the work. It's hard work. Building a life where you don't need to medicate is not easy, who thinks this is easy is lying to himself just so he could justify the use. Very few people want to do the work required with all the sufferings, frustrations and hardships that are going to be on the path. Even when you go to 12 steps they put you to work, all the steps require you to do things, it's more focused on "internal work", to fix yourself from inside out. Else, how the fuck do we think someone could quit? So that's the thing, when we don't want to do the work, we can only come around here and write relapses.

This is great. In the professional realm the common advice is to 1. Identify your triggers and 2. Decide what you will do instead of using.

It's hard work though like you said. Making P not an option anymore.

 

[jonazo91]

What you say is completely right, @Escapeandnevercomeback and it’s the main difference between success and failure I think. Just willingness to put in work. Unfortunately I just have another relapse to report. I stayed home sick today and have done next to nothing all day. I didn’t even really feel like it today, I wasn’t even horny (although that can apply to most of my relapses, this time I really wasn’t even interested in what I was looking at). It just felt perfunctory. Sure, I can recognize some obvious triggers like boredom and the sickness too, but I seem to refuse to learn from them and respond in a better way. I’m tired of writing relapses on here but I have to keep up this journal through good and bad.

PMO last week: 3
PMO this week: 3
Current streak: 0 days
Day 0.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

What you say is completely right, @Escapeandnevercomeback and it’s the main difference between success and failure I think. Just willingness to put in work.

Yes. It's like trying to win Wimbledon. Would someone go there without training and expect to win? There is a lot of work involved in this because here is the thing. With any other disease, what we want is to get to the same level of health that we were before we got sick. With the disease of addiction, when we overcome it, we are a better version of ourselves that we were before we got sick. This is the key. One simply doesn't stay quit without this change. I don't believe anymore in being able to quit and stay quit without working "a program" that makes this transformation possible. That's why they invented the 12 steps. That's why they are other programs/plans etc. It might be a rule of thumb to find a program and stick to it, see how it goes.

Unfortunately I just have another relapse to report. I stayed home sick today and have done next to nothing all day. I didn’t even really feel like it today, I wasn’t even horny (although that can apply to most of my relapses, this time I really wasn’t even interested in what I was looking at). It just felt perfunctory. Sure, I can recognize some obvious triggers like boredom and the sickness too, but I seem to refuse to learn from them and respond in a better way. I’m tired of writing relapses on here but I have to keep up this journal through good and bad.

Yes, this is how it goes. After a relapse the day before, or more relapses, there is that narrative in our head that tells us: "Well, you don't even have a streak, you did it yesterday, what's the big deal if you do it again? It's not like your doing better." I know very well how this goes, I've done it too many times to count.

 

[jonazo91]

24 hours without porn, finally. I will take it. Anyone who’s gone 2000 days had to go one day first. Tomorrow I will double it. And then two days from then I will double that.

I was ogling women today like crazy, perhaps self soothing for staying away from porn? Also being around different people after being cooped up in my house for a few days straight as my cold finally broke. I don’t want to beat myself up for every stray look, but I went a little overboard with my thoughts and the excessiveness of how much ogling I was doing today. So I need to call myself out for it and take ownership of it. That will be my project for tomorrow, look respectfully at the women I pass and keep my thoughts out of the gutter.

PMO last week: 3
PMO this week: 3
Current streak: 1 day
Day 2.

 

[jonazo91]

Relapse again. I’m just being lazy. Actually I tried to fight this one off for a while. And then I got lazy I guess and said fuck it. I am so sick of myself. I’m not happy with the man I am.

PMO last week: 3
PMO this week: 4
Current streak: 0 days
Day 0.

 

[Phineas 808]

Actually I tried to fight this one off for a while.

Take encouragement in that this statement is true. Fighting it off for a while implies that you're trying. I used to be upset at myself for not even fighting it...

Your brain is just taking the habitual way out, the difficulty is in ignoring the urges to carry out our habit and/or rituals.

Think of it this way, both you and your lower brain are innocently trying to get to the same place, that feeling of normalcy and equanimity. The lower brain is simply 'wrong' or mistaken as to how to get you there.

The good news is, if you leave the habit alone (by ignoring it, dismissing urges), you'll come to that place of normalcy naturally, if not eventually. The habit at this point, however, instead of helping you (which it does for the moment) is only creating extra stress for you.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

Take encouragement in that this statement is true. Fighting it off for a while implies that you're trying. I used to be upset at myself for not even fighting it...

Your brain is just taking the habitual way out, the difficulty is in ignoring the urges to carry out our habit and/or rituals.

Think of it this way, both you and your lower brain are innocently trying to get to the same place, that feeling of normalcy and equanimity. The lower brain is simply 'wrong' or mistaken as to how to get you there.

The good news is, if you leave the habit alone (by ignoring it, dismissing urges), you'll come to that place of normalcy naturally, if not eventually. The habit at this point, however, instead of helping you (which it does for the moment) is only creating extra stress for you.

Yes. It's ironic, isn't it? Your addiction tries to take you back to homeostatis because any abstinence from it takes you away from that baseline, you get worse before you get better. But as you say, you will return to homeostatis anyway without the addiction, it's just the irony and ridiculousness of it all.

I hear people talking about addiction like an opponent you fight. They make those analogies I'm fighting Mike Tyson etc. but the idea is you're not fighting anything. Addiction is a survival mechanism trying to keep you safe, but using the wrong practice. It's a defectuos coping skill. Actually, as ridiculous as this might sound to some people, addiction kept some people alive because without this cope, they probably would've killed themselves or something. It probably kept me alive. But now it's time to say good-bye to it. Like in sports, strategies need to change, life needs to be lived in a different way, coping needs to change.

 

[Phineas 808]

Yes. It's ironic, isn't it? Your addiction tries to take you back to homeostatis because any abstinence from it takes you away from that baseline, you get worse before you get better. But as you say, you will return to homeostatis anyway without the addiction, it's just the irony and ridiculousness of it all.

I hear people talking about addiction like an opponent you fight. They make those analogies I'm fighting Mike Tyson etc. but the idea is you're not fighting anything. Addiction is a survival mechanism trying to keep you safe, but using the wrong practice. It's a defectuos coping skill. Actually, as ridiculous as this might sound to some people, addiction kept some people alive because without this cope, they probably would've killed themselves or something. It probably kept me alive. But now it's time to say good-bye to it. Like in sports, strategies need to change, life needs to be lived in a different way, coping needs to change.

Exactly, brother! This is why these habits or addictions are considered maladaptive coping mechanisms, because they formed maladaptively to our true needs, but they were innocently formed.

They helped us (probably many if not most of us) from some jacked up traumas, but they (P, PMO) were like malformed 'training wheels' that we just don't need any more. In fact, doing away with our addictions forces us to feel life, perhaps as we've never done before. And with the lower dopamine (often below baseline), it can feel rough. But it gets better and better in relatively short periods of time.

It reminds me of what you used to say, Embrace the Suck.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

It reminds me of what you used to say, Embrace the Suck.

Yes, definitely. The quitting process sucks. You get worse before you get better.

I like an analogy that Steve-o has, with a pool filled with cold water. I will never know the exact words with those quotes but it's something like this:

Recovery is like getting into a pool with very cold water. If you want to get in, you will never make it if you do it step by step because you will get to your ankles and say "Fuck, this is cold" and you get out. The only way to do it is to jump right in, right into the deep end and of course, it's going to shock your system but then you move around a little bit and realize that you acclimate and the water doesn't feel as cold anymore. But the thing is, you don't go around pushing people into pools. They need to want to do it. You can't force people into sobriety. Because you push someone into the pool and they get right back out and say "Fuck you, man! What did you have to do this?"

I paraphrased the hell out of it and added some of my stuff but here we go. The process of stabilizing yourself into sobriety starts with a shock, starts with the suck, you don't get into a pool with nice warm water when you do it. But the thing is, one can somehow get a longer streak but how to maintain that and get to a point where you can stabilize yourself and it gets relatively easier to keep going, that's a different thing, it's not something I can tell right now, I haven't even gotten close to anything like that.

 

[jonazo91]

Hi all, sorry for the absence for a while. I relapsed twice since my last post I think. Once early Saturday morning (after a night out drinking, but not so heavily that I had no self control left. It was still a conscious decision). And once just now, Monday night. Regardless of all of that, I feel hopeful for some reason. I had urges, and was peeking throughout the day today, but for a while I successfully channeled my energy into watching some videos about the porn recovery process, and they were inspiring. Of course, I went back and still relapsed later in the night. But what can I say? Hope is hope.

I’m hopeful partly because I have my first therapy meeting this Friday. It’s early in the morning, I’m gonna have to get my ass out of bed to make it to it, but I’m going to do it. I know I am because I already committed to it. I know, therapy isn’t the end of the battle. And I know, the fact I have some treatment session scheduled in the future is no excuse to relapse all the way up to it. I’m not making excuses. I’m not saying it’s okay that I relapsed again. But I’m hopeful anyway. I’m hopeful because I won’t give up. The idea of being on my recovery journey is exciting to me, even if my mind isn’t fully cooperating with my excitement. I know it must be a painful road ahead. The times ahead where I feel boredom, sadness, resentment, anxiety, guilt or whatever else, I’m going to have to learn to sit with them and FEEL them until I resolve them or come to accept them. Maybe a long talk with my wife is in store. Maybe another one with my parents. I don’t know. I can’t say I’m looking forward to crying and feeling like shit, but porn has made me so h goddamn numb, it’s a struggle for me to feel any emotion very strongly. If what comes out of this whole thing is that I wear my heart on my sleeve more, then thank God. I don’t know what it will take for me to finally say goodbye to porn. My recent behavior is saying, I’m not ready, I’m scared. But overall I’m still more excited than scared. God, to be a real person. To feel life and get hurt.

PMO last week: 5
PMO this week: 1
Current streak: 0 days
Day 1.

 

[jonazo91]

I relapsed again last night. I was going back and forth with some urges throughout the day, and I got home late and my wife was tired and not in a great mood, so she went to bed shortly after I got home. My porn brain interpreted this as “oh great, this is a a perfect excuse and opportunity to watch porn,” instead of maybe “gee, I should spend some extra time to comfort my wife and make her feel better” or even just “well, I wish I got a warmer welcome, but that’s okay, she had a rough day and I can just live with that feeling.”

This is what I need to change. It’s self-centeredness, drug-seeking attitude and behavior. Oh, my life isn’t going exactly perfect? I’m feeling an emotion other than blank pleasure or dirty excitement? I’m not comfortable! That’s an excuse to run to my baby bottle again! To be clear, it wasn’t even a fight or a tiff. She was happy enough to see me, just didn’t overly shower me with praise or affection. I was already battling urges and thought, well, now I have an excuse. It’s like, now I hope for those bad feelings so I have some sort of flimsy excuse to use again. Oh, I got less than a full 8 hours last night, I’m not responsible for my actions. My wife’s on her period so she won’t be in the mood for sex, that’s good because now I have an excuse to use porn. Sometimes the part of me that ACTIVELY wants to change and quit porn is paper thin, and my addict self is so strong because I feed him so well every day.


PMO last week: 5
PMO this week: 2
Current streak: 0 days
Day 0.

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

Great, man, you've come to all those realizations and conclusions, now all you have to do is to start implementing the appropriate measures. Good thing with searching for help in the real world.

 

[jberg]

One simply doesn't stay quit without this change. I don't believe anymore in being able to quit and stay quit without working "a program" that makes this transformation possible. That's why they invented the 12 steps. That's why they are other programs/plans etc.

This is sound advice. There is something different about an in-person 12-step meeting that engenders a deeper commitment. Find one in your town and get yourself there.

 

[jonazo91]

Ups and downs. I went to therapy on Friday and then went on a mini-bender for the weekend while my wife was out of town. It could have been worse I guess but it was three times in the space of 48 hours and I just felt like as soon as I’m alone I have nothing stopping me from doing what, evidently, I really want to do. Since she got back Saturday night, I’ve been better, but not without moments of peeking at sus material even still. She’s leaving for a much longer period very soon though, and my history is that, left to my own devices, with no one else in the house, I have a tendency to regress and completely abandon my values and goals and just watch porn as much as I want. And then I get bummed, because I have this fantasy that I’ll accomplish so much if I only have some free time to myself, but then I just squander all that free time on porn.


Right now I need to focus on being more productive in my life again. I’ve been being incredibly lazy lately. I guess I’ve been under the weather, but that excuse is only good for so long.

PMO last week: 5
PMO this week: 0
Current streak: 1 day
Day 2

 

[jonazo91]

I’ve been less frequent about posting here lately. I want to get back to a daily habit of it if I can. At the same time, I’m going to try and change my approach for a while. I’m getting rid of my streak counters for a while. I want to try to stop making porn the big bogeyman in my life. Certainly it is a problem, I have an unhealthy relationship with it, I continue to think it’s evil. But broadly speaking, porn isn’t my problem, it’s an attempted solution. One of the major patterns that causes me distress these days is the pattern of “oh God I’m afraid I’m gonna do it again” leading to “I did it again, I’m so pathetic, I’m hopeless, etc.”

So this journal is obviously my tool to record my thoughts and thought patterns while I work on leaving porn in the past. But it hasn’t been serving me to obsess over my counters and all the fear and shame of repeating this pattern. But on the other hand it would be irresponsible for me to stop recording my observations as it regards my porn use.

So last night was good in a lot of ways, my wife and I had sex and it was good, I cooked up some nice dinner and then went off to see a movie with some friends I hadn’t seen in a while. Because of all this I didn’t have a lot of “downtime” to myself through the night, so I made up for it by staring at my phone for a few hours late into the night when I should’ve been asleep already, finally getting to bed after 2. Unsurprisingly my phone activity ventured into very porn-adjacent material on YouTube and for a while I just sat there escalating it and looking for more and more. I didn’t masturbate but I was certainly close. Maybe I was just too tired or something. Eventually I finally went to bed.

Now what I’m going to try not to do is worry about it. Certainly I fell short of my best self last night, I can’t exactly congratulate myself or excuse myself. But, it happened. It’s in the past. I’m documenting it here because I think it’s important to write down these things and kind of acknowledge them and reexamine the thought process that led to them if I can. But what I don’t need to do is construct a whole narrative out of it, or fret over what I’m going to do next. It is what it is, it happened. I’m in the present now.

On a semi related note, I was thinking this morning, as I started my internal debate over whether or not I should continue peeking (the answer is no), that one of the dumb thoughts I get in my head is something like “if I don’t keep looking at porn right now, I’ll never get sexual gratification again!” or something. Or at least that’s how I act. I know people have talked about this before on here, but stopping in your tracks, noticing bad behavior or mental patterns and then dropping them, doesn’t have to be this whole dramatic endeavor. Just chill, just wait for a bit. It’ll all still be there later. Or maybe just maybe I’ll be less interested later, or hell maybe I’ll find a better outlet for all that pent up energy. Just chill.

Hope everyone’s having a fine day.

 

[Phineas 808]

It is what it is, it happened. I’m in the present now.

I know people have talked about this before on here, but stopping in your tracks, noticing bad behavior or mental patterns and then dropping them, doesn’t have to be this whole dramatic endeavor. Just chill, just wait for a bit. It’ll all still be there later. Or maybe just maybe I’ll be less interested later, or hell maybe I’ll find a better outlet for all that pent up energy. Just chill.

This is perhaps the most important post you've posted on here!

Being in the present moment, whether you've abstained for a while or have failed just the previous night, is key to acknowledging your healthy and normal equanimous self. This gets us out of the chasing of one's tail that this shame-driven addiction causes.

Also, what you describe in your closing paragraph is what's called practicing the pause. That, okay, I'm obsessing: but I'm not going to judge myself about it, and further, I'll just wait a moment, take a deep breath and just wait a bit before I act on this. And, just as you described, a moment or two passes and what seemed so urgent and imminent is no longer so all important. We can even take it or leave it...

Good approach, Jonazo!

 

[Escapeandnevercomeback]

All I've learned in all those god damn fuckin years is that you don't force anybody into sobriety. You can't. And you will never get in between the addict and his rock bottom. Never. And not because you won't, but because the addict will not allow you to. Because all addicts have this job that is called "I know". However, rock bottom is when you stop digging because you could always dig more. Rock bottom is particular for ever one of us. When we stop digging, that's our rock bottom. And you will never ever in a million years get in between the addict and HIS rock bottom. Until his rock bottom happens you can just watch, support and advice but the addict will not listen shit. Notice how I said "Listen" not "Hear". The addict will hear you but he won't listen. You know Steve-O? I will post an interesting video. It's not long, just 8 minutes. By the way, what I just said was for both of us. For both and Jonazo. I was talking about me as well. Cause I ain't doing better. The video has my favorite analogy with the pool with cold water.