Never too late!

unchained

Active Member
If you have tackled those addictions, you can tackle this one, too.  It is true that sex is an instinct, but porn is an addiction just like any other.  Don't give it power with the additude that somehow it is going to stay with you just because sex is an instinct.  Porn is not sex.  It is a lie, just like the pleasure promised by alcohol & cigarettes?both of which you have already beaten.
 
C

Chile

Guest
You nailed it Unchained. Newbee facing down alcohol and nicotene, that's awesome. How many Hollywood movies are based on less-inspiring stuff? You remind me of the story of David killing Goliath. He got much of his courage and confidence from previously killing a lion and then a bear. Sorry for the religious reference, but my point is you have already done the same thing. Even if porn is a giant compared to the other stuff you've already defeated, you're made of the right stuff to be victorious.
 

NewBee

Member
You guys are right.  I don't want to put in anyone's mind that porn is greater or more powerful than other addicitions.  Addiction is addiction, period. 

But, on my final, successful attempt at giving up smoking, I was lucky enough to find a book called The Only Way To Stop Smoking, permanently by Allen Carr.  It was not a fun read.  You had to REALLY want to stop smoking in order to get through that book (but, it worked for me and about a half dozen other folks I recommeneded it to). 

One of Carr's points that really resonated with me was, we were born perfect.  We weren't born with a nicotine deficiency.  We were perfectly fine before introducing nicotine into our bodies.  We create the need for nicotine, the deficiency, the addiction, ourselves.  Same with alcohol.  We weren't born with an alcohol deficiency.  We could live our lives perfectly happy without alcohol (or nicotine) if it had never been introduced, if Hollywood hadn't told us it was glamorous, if peer pressure hadn't coerced us to do it.  If we hadn't struggled through the initial phases, the actual hard work of learning to smoke or drink, putting the poison inside us without getting sick.  Building up a tolerance to the poison, which is what you have to do with nicotine or alcohol.  It's poison your body has to learn to adapt to.  It's not natural.  it's artificial.  An artificial need we ourselves created.

But porn, while it is definitely NOT sex, but more a hollow, fake, pernicious,  lying substitute, a perversion, is still tied to one of our most basic instincts, the physical attraction and the drive for procreation.  Maybe we're not born with that drive.  But, the drive develops and comes on strong when we hit puberty.  That was what I was trying to say above about it being possibly more difficult to break free of.  Because we have attached one of our basic insticts to an artificial stimulus (porn).  Hyperstymulus, actually.  Way more than our primative brains were meant to ever encounter.  And it's unlimited. 

So we can take away nicotine or alcohol, and eventually our bodies will be just fine without it (after a period of withdrawal).  There may still be a psychological craving for nicotine or alcohol.  But, that is something we initiated and caused.  We didn't initiate and cause sexual attraction.  It's just there, God-given if you will.  So, even after we take porn away, we will still have the instinct for procreation and our keaness for sexual attractiveness.  The instinct remains.

We have to train our brains to direct our attraction to, and our appreciation for, the real thing, not the man-made lie that is porn.  It'll be tough in our modern society where "sex sells" and man-made sexual attractions are so over-emphasized (TV, movies, magazines, billboards and especially the internet).  That's why we're all here, right?  Trying to re-train our primitive brains.  Trying to return to the default, factory settings.  Reboot! 

Stay strong guys!  And thanks for helping me keep my head in the right place.  I owe you!
 

Brooklyn Jerry

Active Member
WarrNing Hell all, maybe I am the oldest guy here at 65. I sure understand th deal deal with a wife with medical problems, my wife had five surgeries before she passed away, so it was five years of not much sex, althoughnimdont ugh at times we did it. I wish imcould blame my PMO on her condition. But that not it, I jerked off plenty even when we had sex regularly.
Never though much about PMO, although jerking off for sure curbed my desire.
Fast forward  four years ago. I meet a women and began dating. After a few months we had sex,and it was great The first night  I'm came twice and got her off multiple tines. We hadmsex a few time a week, but then I felt guilty, like I was cheating on my dead wife.( funny I never felt that way when my wife was alive and iwent to a massage parlor) .
We stopped havng sex for over a year,then she was about to break up with me over this,so  I conceded and we had relations again. Everthing  worked fine but I though I needed some help with hardness so,I got some viagra,it worked fine,but a few times I had to finish with my hand, guess those 18'months of PMO got me descensitized. I found this site and quite PMO for at least 60 and it sure worked, no need for ED pills. But I relapsed. First time it was soon after having  sex,  I'm sure it is the chaser effect. It made me feel terrible . Last week I found I was edging almost daily,and wasting a lot of time on the porn sites,and did PMO 3 times. What a failure. I,had sex last week, it,was fine, but so far it's been 8' not even a peek. I did wake  a fe days this week with morning wood, so I know not jerking off is the way to go.i am sure the Internet is the problem, as mags do nothin ng for me. I am not a success, but will say no PMO works.
 

NewBee

Member
It seems my PMO-free streaks are getting shorter rather than longer.  I find the "ah, what's the use" attitude creeping in.  Can't seem to keep my head in the right place for very long.  And my resolve seems weaker than other times when I've started over.  maybe I need to go back to the start, re-read YBOP, re-watch the vids, get inspired to put up the good fight.  Right now I don't seem to have what it takes to beat this.

Not a good day.
 
N

notgivinup

Guest
NewBee....I was where you are just a few days ago.

69 days....then, boom. and i have been struggling with it for about 3 weeks or so.

Yesterday I heard some good words from guys here....and I determined to get back up and move forward.

You have been here before....thousands of time, I'm guessing. Cause I know I was.
I never had the success on my own that I have had here, though. and no reboot is perfect. But, if you are making any progress at all, then that is better than where you were before, right? I know that I was in a day after day after freaking day cycle of pmo....and I could not begin to see my way out.

Make a plan and then put it into ACTION. Just move in the direction of the next step. Just do it. You can beat this and you can get past this. I know you can. If i can do it...anyone can.

We're in this thing together...and I'm glad I read your post today. Make a plan and then kick it into gear.

I'm glad you're here.

pmo is not an option.

NGU
 

NewBee

Member
Thanks NGU.  I have made progress.  I know that.  But, just like everything else in my life, it seems, I have tons of enthusiasm in the beginning, then as the novelty wears off, the enthusiams slowly drops off.  See, even in a reboot we search for novelty!  I know a year ago or even 6 months ago, I was just helplessly, hopelessly addicted to porn.  I KNEW it.  And I felt totally powerless to get out of the cycle.  A depressing downward spiral.

Then I found this site and others like it.  I saw myself in so many of the stories, and for once, I knew I wasn't alone in this.  I learned all I could from the YBOP book, the videos, the articles and the forums.  And I was excited to start on a path to a new, better me.  I guess I just thought (even thought all sources indicated otherwise) that it would be relatively easy for me once I actually put my mind to quitting porn.  And at first it WAS kind of easy, because it was kind of exciting, and I saw improvements within the first days and weeks.  Then the novelty wore off....

Now, I'm faced with the reality that this is going to be very difficult.  My mind isn't as strong as I thought it was.  And the craving for dopamine in my brain is powerful.  This is going to be a knock-down, drag-out fight.  And as others have indicated, it will probably become easier over time, once I get past the worst of the withdrawal.  But, it will never go away.  I have to look at it like that.  it will be a life-long change.  I can never go back to the artificial stimulus of porn if I want to be free.  Never!

I've seen some posts folks who seem to actually ENJOY the withdrawal, as if they see THAT as progress and sort of enjoy the battle.  I WISH I could see it like that.  I am not enjoying this, at all.  This sucks!  But, I have to keep going, until hopefully one day it doesn't such anymore.

My wife asked me this morning how I was doing with the reboot.  I told her about it a while back, when I was still in the novelty phase of it.  She supports the effort.  I didn't tell her every sordid detail.  I wouldn't do that to her.  It's enough for her to know that I'm addicted, I am trying to beat the addiction, and the goal is to be able to respond normally with her, one day.  And she doesn't really pry into how it's going (today was the first time she's asked since I firsrt told her, about a month ago or more).  And I've been honest, that I'm sort of in a 2-week cycle.  I also told her that my goal is to remain PMO-free until our vacation in June (about 39 days away).  If I can do that, it will be a personal best.  And I will probably test things out with her while on vacation.  That's my goal. 

This process has been tough.  I'm weak.  Relapses are a bitch.  But, I haven't lost sight of the goal, of the prize.  I deserve a better person, and so does my wife.  That's what I'm working toward.  It has not been pretty.  I should have known it wouldn't be.  But, I'm still in this to win.
With ya'll's help, I just gave myself a pep talk!  Try and stay strong everybody!
 
B

Brodie

Guest
Just to let you know you are not the oldest guy here. I am 58 (will be 59 this year) and I am going to do this too.

You can do it! We can do it! That is why this crazy site is here so we do not have to work on this alone. Been there, Done that... it didn't work.

With the help of others we can work through this thing. I want that monkey off my back! Lets make sure that we continue to move forward and not beat ourselves up for any transgressions of the past.

Move onward. Be free. Be who we were meant to be!

Peace.
 

unchained

Active Member
NewBee said:
I've seen some posts folks who seem to actually ENJOY the withdrawal, as if they see THAT as progress and sort of enjoy the battle.  I WISH I could see it like that.  I am not enjoying this, at all.  This sucks!  But, I have to keep going, until hopefully one day it doesn't such anymore.

I remember thinking the same thing as I was going through the horrible anxiety of withdrawal the 1st time.  It was always the guys who had made a few long runs and then slipped back into porn who seemed to feel that way.  They had been there - done that and kind of knew what was going on.  They weren't freaking out due to flatline and other symptoms because they knew they were temporary and simply part of the healing process.

If you have never been on the other side of withdrawal, it is much more frustrating.  I know everyone is different, but if you make it past a month or so, it does get much better.  Why would someone who has made it out come back, you may ask...well, for me the withdrawal was over, but I am still an addict.  I let my guard down and fell back into the trap.  Please remember that just because withdrawal symptoms ease and at some point your erections start functioning normally, you are still a recovering porn addict and must remain vigilant.

I understand better now why other guys were embracing the symptoms to some degree.  They let you know things are changing inside of your brain.  Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't love them and look forward to being on the other side once again.

Another thing to think about is this:  If it was easy to get away, how many of us would jump right back in thinking "no big deal, it wasn't hard to quit"?  You say it sucks...it does suck.  Hopefully you will carry that memory with you.  Hopefully it stays with you and helps you stay focused on a porn free life long after your PMO thoughts are a distant memory.  That way you can be the man and husband you want to be.

Good luck.  Stay strong.
 

NewBee

Member
Good points all.  Brodie, you ARE old!!!  ;D
I just wonder if younger guys are thinking, "Sheesh!  As old as you guys are, why bother?"  I know I never envisioned having this problem (porn addiction) when I was 20, 30, 40 or even 50.  Little did I know, I was already hooked way back then, certainly by the time I was 18.  Damn-near 40 years.

No wonder I am so melancholy about this.  I read something in another forum today and I can relate to it, especially right now.  It feels like I had a woman who was the wildest, most accommodating, adventurous, versatile lover I could ever imagine.  And after 40 years of never-ending, constantly changing, just mind-blowing sex whenever I wanted it, I am voluntarily breaking up with her.

That's what this feels like right now.  When the withdrawal hits, you forget the fact that it turned you (me) into an impotent (with a real person) failure.  You just remember how exciting it would be to open 10 streaming sites of vile shit and edge until you (I) am completely exhausted and just surrender with an O.

And if it's like alcohol, it'll always be there, waiting for a weak moment, always telling you you are cured, it;s safe now, you can drink like normal people.  That's the trap.  And like others said up above, if we get beyond the really bad withdrawal symptoms, then the addiction starts telling you that you don't really have it (the addiction).  It'll tell you you're cured!  A little porn won't hurt.  Go on!

I have come to accept that it's never going away.  I need to always be mindful that for me, porn is not an option.  Porn is POISON!!!
 
C

Chile

Guest
Great way of explaining the break-up NewBee. I'm trusting the guys ahead of us who say we will get to the point where we don't really miss porn, but there is definitely a sad and scary phase in breaking up with her. The guys who have gone years without porn and then fallen back into it teach us to never let our guard down. Lust after the freedom and enjoy it, but let's never break our arm in patting ourselves on the back.
 

Jay1946

Member
Newbee:


I love your metaphor with the woman lover. She's been "custom made" to our wildest fantasies and fetishes, so it's not surprising that it's so difficult to break up with her, specially when we're the ones that are voluntarily doing it. The metaphor also serves to fully understand our wive's reactions to having "a third party"- as my wife puts it-in our marriage.

I belong to a 12 step sexual addiction group. We're eight guys in the group-all married. Two of them have been clean of PMO for five years of more. They have been an incredible inspiration for me. I remind myself: "if they can do it, why wouldn't I be able to do it". I'm always amazed, though, at how careful they still are with their thoughts and actions, fully aware that they could easily fall back on their addiction.
 

NewBee

Member
I just watched the latest, updated Your Brain On Porn video, the 2015 version.I think I end up taking away some different information each time I watch. 

This time, I guess I paid more attention the the discussion on hypofrontality and the weakended impulse control and willpower degradation caused by years of internet porn addiction.  So, the very thing we are all trying to resist has caused us to be less able think it through and therefore decide against relapsing (due to hypofrontality and shrinking of grey matter in our frontal lobe and pleasure center).

The good news (according to the video), is that the same hypofrontality that has degraded our ability to resist the temptation and make good decisions about rejecting porn will eventually begin to reverse itself.  By quitting and escaping the porn trap, we can regenerate that area of the brain  and strengthen our impulse-fighting ability.  And like Chile and others have said, the urge and brain pathways will always be there, over time our abilities to fight those urges can strengthen, making it easier to resist and reject.  There's a light at the end of the tunnel!

Another interesting detail I noticed from wathing the video this time was that the nerve cells that we starve of dopamine while we are abstaining from porn actually multiply at about 7 to 10 days into our reboot.  This causes increased urges as our brains scream for the dopamine hit with an increased number of cells in that general period of the reboot.  This could explain, for me anyway, why I seem to be on a 1-week or 2-week cycle.  Somewhere in that timeframe my brain starts screaming for a hit.  It starts rationalizing - just a peek, go on, edge a little, you'll really quit next time, why are you quitting anyway, you have no other sexual outlet, you deserve SOME pleasure, etc, etc. etc.  It's my brain, doubling those dopamine receptors, turning up the heat in order to get me to cave.

And I'm there right now.  Gotta find a way NOT to cave.  I have to fight through.  I need to feel what it's like on the other side of the 2-week barrier.  Maybe it'll be easier.  Maybe the urges will less intense or occur less often.  I don't know.  I've never been there.  It's actually kind of appropriate that some of the rebooters on another site call themselves fapstronauts.  Out where no man has gone before.  Porn-free space, the final frontier.

I am determined to get out there, to break through the atmosphere, to one day get to a place where I'm not subject to porn gravitational pull.

I've run out of puns and quips and plays on words.  But, thanks for sharing the journey.
 

NewBee

Member
Well Chile and Jay,
You HAVE been out "there".  What's "it" like?  Is there enough oxygen, water, minerals and food to support the porn addict species?  is there.....you know......sex?  Real sex?  With a human?

I'm joking. 

But, I do hope to get there one day.  And I'll provide a full report.
 
C

Chile

Guest
LOL. Every reboot is different. My stuff works now with my wife and continues to improve. Yeah, real sex, and it's better than pixels. My problem know is sexual fantasy with real women, but I trust I'll be OK. Some guys are ready to go after a week of reboot, others need several months. Peace NewBee.
 

unchained

Active Member
NewBee said:
Another interesting detail I noticed from wathing the video this time was that the nerve cells that we starve of dopamine while we are abstaining from porn actually multiply at about 7 to 10 days into our reboot.  This causes increased urges as our brains scream for the dopamine hit with an increased number of cells in that general period of the reboot.  This could explain, for me anyway, why I seem to be on a 1-week or 2-week cycle.  Somewhere in that timeframe my brain starts screaming for a hit.  It starts rationalizing - just a peek, go on, edge a little, you'll really quit next time, why are you quitting anyway, you have no other sexual outlet, you deserve SOME pleasure, etc, etc. etc.  It's my brain, doubling those dopamine receptors, turning up the heat in order to get me to cave.

And I'm there right now.  Gotta find a way NOT to cave.  I have to fight through.  I need to feel what it's like on the other side of the 2-week barrier.  Maybe it'll be easier.  Maybe the urges will less intense or occur less often.  I don't know.  I've never been there.  It's actually kind of appropriate that some of the rebooters on another site call themselves fapstronauts.  Out where no man has gone before.  Porn-free space, the final frontier.

The withdrawals start when you quit, build up over a week or two and then slowly ease.  It sucks that it has to get worse before it gets better, but such is the nature of the beast.  The first time or two I experienced it, I didn't really know what was going on...only knew I felt miserable.  Like anything else, do something a few times and you learn better how it works.  Gary's video very accurately describes what happens to me personally during withdrawal.  The two week hump is a big deal.  It still sucks at two weeks or so, but I feel that the 2-3 period is as bad as it gets.  From there the withdrawals slowly get better and it becomes time to focus on the life issues that trip us up.  Withdrawal anxiety may not be the problem down the road, but real life anxiety may cause you to seek relief, or maybe it's boredom, loneliness, stress, sexual tension, emotional loss, etc.  My mistake has always been that I let my guard down and fall back into old habits.

DON'T fight porn.  Visualize yourself saying "Go to hell porn, I am not fighting you anymore".  Don't fight it.  Don't think about fighting it.  Sooner or later it will get the best of you if you are engaging it in a fight.  The final stage of addiction prior to healing is "Surrender".  At that point, you come to realize that you cannot fight and win.  You will never win the fight in the end.  You must realize that the addiction is stronger and walk away from the fight...it's the only way.  You WILL NOT beat this addiction long term with strength.

You may be thinking "WTF?", but I can say with complete assurance that it all comes down to a Surrender mindset.

The stage before Surrender is Acceptance.  In Acceptance, we realize we are addicts is our minds and hearts.  We realize that it hurts us emotionally, spiritually & physically.  We know something has to be done.  We know it hurts our relationships, our work, our families.  In Acceptance, we have the knowledge that this is a REAL problem and something needs to be done.  I stayed in this stage for a long time and even had some success in rebooting, but here's the problem...you will never beat it long term if you don't come to the point of Surrender.  It is clear in posts everywhere...it is clear in my own journal as I look back and it is evidence as to why my own success was short-lived.  The mindset that we can still "Fight" the addiction (any addiction) shines light on the fact that in our minds we still think we can beat the addiction.  Everywhere you look guys are fighting their best and then slipping.  An addict can stay in Acceptance for the rest of his life, recognizing the addiction, trying his hardest to get out and perpetually "fighting" and never breaking free.  It is sad, truly sad, because once at that point the answer is sooooo close.  The answer is to give up the fighting.

This is only my opinion, but when I look into my own heart and why I chose for so long to fight instead of surrender, I think it was because on a subconscious level I really wanted to keep porn as an option somewhere on the horizon.  If I could "win the fight", then I would be stronger than porn.  In that way, maybe after some time I could indulge a little bit, maybe revisit the old custom made girlfriend mentioned earlier in this journal.  In my mind, I loved her and didn't truly want to let go, at least not forever...again, I'm thinking this was on a subconscious level and never would have admitted it, even to myself.  If I were stronger than porn, then I would be able to use again and control it.  This way of thinking is why I and so many others have kept fighting, and kept failing.

At this point, I surrender...I am giving up on the fight.  I will fight no more.  The porn bastard can gloat, I don't care.  He's kicked my ass for the last 29+ years.  Every time I thought I could fight him, he wore me down until he won.  Those fights have cost me plenty.  He will not beat me and take anything else away.  I will not fight.  I am walking away.  The Surrender mind set has finally given me peace in this process.  I cannot control my porn use, it is not manageable.  I can not win...I will never win.  An addiction cannot be beaten.  You have to heal from an addiction.  The healing requires distance from the addiction, not engaging it in any way whatsoever and this includes fighting or wrestling with it.
 

Jay1946

Member
Wow unchained...very wise words. Somewhere I read what you say as "walk away from the Dragon" because you can't fight a Dragon. Get as far away from it as you can
 
Top