A Good Path for Me!

[LTE]

Yes, non-orgasm focused karezza style intimacy is very good for us. My wife and I have tried it and enjoyed it and discussed how we both felt about it. I have shared with her what I think about the possible downside to orgasm and the resulting effects on us that linger.

No, we are not committed to karezza. Why? Not sure, maybe we are just mindful, when engaged in sex, of how good the old orgasm felt. Even although that intense feeling is just mere seconds compared to the lovely physical connection of foreplay and touch and all that nice bonding.

I am not, like I was before, and expecting intimacy at the snap of a finger. I just was telling her that she turns me on. hey we sleep together half naked and that gets me aroused!

It was more that I felt hurt that my feelings were not heard but just kind of "shut down"... I do not shut down her equally valid reasons why intimacy is not convenient or possible at a certain moment in time.

This reminds me a bit of long timer PMO abstainers at YBR, like DD and JDoe, DD became unhappy with his very rare intimacy and JDoe seemed to act out his addiction just with his wife instead of his hand. I don't want to take either of those routes!

Good thoughts, FC.

As I see it, in the final analysis, it always ends up at being in control. As porn addicts we were not in control. Now, as people in recovery we have to learn that we need to always be in control . . .  and we are always in control. If we choose to exercise our control we will be able to say no to ourselves about acting out and say no to ourselves when our partner is unavailable or unwilling.

 

[fcjl8]

Being in control is all well and good. However, there is another part to this...

I think as porn addicts we enjoyed porn because there was the illusion of being in control. I will choose when I have sex and for how long. Of course that is just an illusion. But, it is strong or we would not get so mired in this.

This "control" mentality is at odds with being in a loving relationship. We only enjoy that love when we actually "let go". Which is not easy.

I find letting go expectations is a very healthy and beneficial way for me. This would be true for almost all aspects of my being and life. It was not until I felt secure in "letting go" that I believed that I should quit porn and masturbation or that I even had a problem. Before that I was able to control or rationalize my use of PMO.

I know this may sound contrary to what LTE wrote but I think it is an important distinction for me. My ego(control) is what got me so hooked on PMO. So actually the opposite approach was required to even see my problem!

 

[Jverhoye]

You make a lot of sense here.  For me the illusion of control meets selfishness when I PMO, and the sad thing is I was neither in control nor was I taking good care of my needs.

 

[Freethinker]

Hi fc,

Just wanted to stop by and say I enjoy your observations and respect your efforts to stay on the path of figuring out what works for you. This is certainly a journey where we are constantly learning more about ourselves and what drives us.

I'm not at YBR anymore. I've had some success while there but just felt like a fresh start. My wife hasn't been well physically the last few months and that has had me "using' off and on. But, I know that happiness and self respect lies in greater measure when PMO is minimized and eventually forsaken altogether. That's my goal.
Be well Bro.

 

[somethingelse]

Being in control is all well and good. However, there is another part to this...

I think as porn addicts we enjoyed porn because there was the illusion of being in control. I will choose when I have sex and for how long. Of course that is just an illusion. But, it is strong or we would not get so mired in this.

This "control" mentality is at odds with being in a loving relationship. We only enjoy that love when we actually "let go". Which is not easy.

I find letting go expectations is a very healthy and beneficial way for me. This would be true for almost all aspects of my being and life. It was not until I felt secure in "letting go" that I believed that I should quit porn and masturbation or that I even had a problem. Before that I was able to control or rationalize my use of PMO.

I know this may sound contrary to what LTE wrote but I think it is an important distinction for me. My ego(control) is what got me so hooked on PMO. So actually the opposite approach was required to even see my problem!

Perhaps the most introspective post I had seen yesterday, I remembered in my mind to come back to it. I think you captured the p addict persona, we like the control, being able to call the shots on how much, when, where and, what we like. The very concept of 'fetishes' suggests that we are very dogmatic in what we like and what we don't like. Speaking personally, I think the ego can become uncontrollably inflated.

Brilliant stuff my brother.

 

[Viper]

Being in control is all well and good. However, there is another part to this...

I think as porn addicts we enjoyed porn because there was the illusion of being in control. I will choose when I have sex and for how long. Of course that is just an illusion. But, it is strong or we would not get so mired in this.

We certainly control the selection, that's for sure 
The fact that you decide what images you want to look at to get you off or whatever it is you used
porn for.
I remember one lady I used to date that had a healthy sex life with me. One time, I was adjusting my
package in the underwear. You guys know when you have to shift down there once in a while and you think
no one is looking?
She caught me and she thought I was playing with myself. She went on to scold me and say that she
was responsible for giving me pleasure there and touching myself for thrills was unacceptable.
In other words, she wanted the control.

 

[fcjl8]

I would like this second period of 100 days to be an easier time of recovery than what I have experienced in my previous trips on the recovery path. I don't know , is that possible??

It is a bit daunting to think that this has to be as hard as it sometimes is. I am really going all out with my creativity, painting, exercise and my family and community. I want to see if really immersing myself in these things and the people I hold dear can make this easier. Plus I am so much deeper into my Faith then i have ever been.

Somedays are easy peasy but some days it feels like a grinder. Just saying the truth. I try to be posi but the path is not always smooth.

 

[LTE]

I would like this second period of 100 days to be an easier time of recovery than what I have experienced in my previous trips on the recovery path. I don't know , is that possible??

It is a bit daunting to think that this has to be as hard as it sometimes is. I am really going all out with my creativity, painting, exercise and my family and community. I want to see if really immersing myself in these things and the people I hold dear can make this easier. Plus I am so much deeper into my Faith then i have ever been.

Somedays are easy peasy but some days it feels like a grinder. Just saying the truth. I try to be posi but the path is not always smooth.

No matter how bad it gets, porn and/or masturbation are never the answer.

 

[fcjl8]

I have honestly been feeling a lot of temptation this past week to act out... I know this feeling well having had about 1 relapse per year for the past 3 years. I think I know what my major triggers are, stress and anxiety and a nice big helping of worry with a side of guilt for desert!!

This is an irrational way to live ones life. I know that... the periods of sobriety that I have enjoyed really help impart the significance of what I can experience when not clouding my mind with "numbness".

It is good if this discomfort really helps me solidify my recovery. But, I don't like this feeling. I wonder if I became addicted to stress and anxiety. My childhood was a state of constant stress which only eased in my fantasy world, creativity, dreaming, building models and masturbation.

I must continue to face this discomfort head on. Even lean into it as JDoe used to expound at YBR. I think of playing football and rugby when a youth and learning how much power I had when I was carrying the ball and leaned into a tackler, often knocking the would be tackler over. That felt good and maybe can work on this state I find myself in.

 

[LTE]

I have honestly been feeling a lot of temptation this past week to act out... I know this feeling well having had about 1 relapse per year for the past 3 years. I think I know what my major triggers are, stress and anxiety and a nice big helping of worry with a side of guilt for desert!!

This is an irrational way to live ones life. I know that... the periods of sobriety that I have enjoyed really help impart the significance of what I can experience when not clouding my mind with "numbness".

It is good if this discomfort really helps me solidify my recovery. But, I don't like this feeling. I wonder if I became addicted to stress and anxiety. My childhood was a state of constant stress which only eased in my fantasy world, creativity, dreaming, building models and masturbation.

I must continue to face this discomfort head on. Even lean into it as JDoe used to expound at YBR. I think of playing football and rugby when a youth and learning how much power I had when I was carrying the ball and leaned into a tackler, often knocking the would be tackler over. That felt good and maybe can work on this state I find myself in.

I've had the occasional urge myself lately. Must be the season. Hang tough Paul, the only time "porn and masturbation" are the answers is when the question is "how can you harm yourself"?

 

[fcjl8]

It's almost a week since I got out of sorts and expressed my "needs" to my wife. I have really looked at that situation and tried to see the whole picture.

I honestly think that I was going through significant temptations and really not handling them to the best of my abilities. I had come off a pretty busy and rewarding week and probably was feeling full of myself. Hey, nothing wrong with a good confident attitude but I know myself. I can cross that line from confidence into entitlement so fast I don't even notice it happening.

So, I now see and admit to what was the largest contributor to my issues with my wife last week.

I am happy and grateful that we have been very connected and close this week although both busy and apart most of the work days. This is all a part of healthy recovery for me.

 

[FindingSanctuary]

Glad to read of your strides.
Yes, it takes a constant effort to stay connected - true dat!

 

[fcjl8]

Saturday! Home with my wife and son. Weather grey and blah but tomorrow is supposed to be warmer and sunny!

Painting and patching drywall in the upstairs hallway. I have new flooring to replace the ugly worn carpet but must paint the ceiling and walls first. I felt frustrated earlier, I want it done right away, but it is a process. Patch blemishes, sand, primer, paint, paint door casing, paint ceilings... and on. I almost felt overwhelmed but now am just happy to have made progress on this project. I am going to do another shift on it Sunday after church and just plug away until it is done.

I think it is a lot like porn addiction recovery. That also seems insurmountable at first, but taking that first clean break, that first day is the critical move that starts the process, then we just progress from there.

I know this is hardly profound but I felt the same way as I started the work upstairs as I often did when caving to PMO.

 

[Viper]

That's good that you have something to occupy your mind and your body.
Something like that project requires focus and just like porn, there is a reward circuit you want to fulfill.
Hope your vision materializes.

 

[LetItGoAlready]

I think it is a lot like porn addiction recovery. That also seems insurmountable at first, but taking that first clean break, that first day is the critical move that starts the process, then we just progress from there.

So true, Fc. Sometimes the anticipation is worse than the actual thing itself. It's natural to want to avoid the pain, to put it off until later. But good for you for not letting this project continue to haunt you. Now that you've got the necessary momentum, nothing can stop you.

 

[fcjl8]

At church on Sunday morning there was part of the sermon that talked about "seeing people with our hearts, not with our eyes" this probably meant a lot of things to the many people hearing it. For me it had clear meaning and is now part of "my getting IT" (getting It is a friend's vocabulary for an essential ingredient to recovery, he is 4 years away from PMO)...

If I can always see people with my heart and not just my eyes then I will never experience lust again!

 

[LTE]

I've recently had some very rewarding experiences in doing this. It's amazing how beautiful women are when their personalities shine through as well as their physical attributes.

 

[fcjl8]

I am thinking about something Jverhoye recently brought up at his journal it was his Goal #9.

I saw it as a question... what should my sexual health look like? What is a healthy sexuality?? I am married so this obviously involves my wife as well? What is a healthy intimacy for a loving and mature couple?

I am really thinking on this right now. Maybe for the first time in my life!

I know what unhealthy is for me... pornography, masturbation and lusting. That is unhealthy sexuality for me.

the big question what does healthy sexuality look like??

 

[Jverhoye]

I think part of the challenge is we have so many examples of the unhealthy that it's hard to know what is healthy!  For me so much of it comes down to actually having conversations with my wife about needs, wants, goals, emotions, and experiences.  Sadly these tend to be discussions that most of us dread, instead of looking forward to as opportunities to draw closer to our mate.  At least that's been my experience.  Just 2 days ago my wife and I had a challenging conversation, but in the end we are stronger for it.

 

[SlaveToRighteousness]

the big question what does healthy sexuality look like??

This is ultimately the question I have been thinking about over the past year as well. At a minimum, I think that healthy sexuality for me includes:

1. My wife's body being the only naked body I see besides my own
2. My wife being the only woman I think about sexually
3. My wife being the only woman I bond with emotionally (besides female relatives)
4. No sexual activity unless my wife is involved
5. Praying for our marriage, including sex