quit for good

k-fff

Well-Known Member
Day 11 is complete Its too bad partners don't understand an addicts struggles but we are sure meant to understand their struggles. It really is a mixed up world isn't it? But none the less all is good here. Haven't even had any cravings for some of my old gateway sites which is a small change this time I am pleasantly surprised. Now off for some tunes and a can of beer
Post often it helps me it helps you
Women have no empathy for men imo. Just likely unable to. I think my main frustration is just the lack of anger at the society which promotes and pushes porn into every aspect of our lives and it’s instead seemingly reserved for the men that get addicted to something that is shoved in our face daily.
 

Aeodh Dan

Member
Its too bad partners don't understand an addicts struggles
My advice is to not expect anything from a "partner". The worst thing that I could have done was sharing all this shit with my wife 2 decades ago, which turned out to be a serious mistake! No, she doesn't understand and never will! As a matter of fact she is now gone, and I can finally breathe!
My wife thought she could "fix" me, which obviously is bullshit...nobody can fix another person, only themselves.
Where in the rule book for "partners" does it state that they must understand everything about each other?? That's way too complicated.
I am responsible for myself that's all, (and of course my children when they were minors) but the wife has to sort out her own shit just like I do. Some people are more understanding than others, but is that why I chose her? No, I chose her because I wanted to have sex with her. I guess it depends on the reasons for choosing a partner...mine was for sex, that's all. And that's obviously not enough for a successful family, there needs to be an agreement on other issues like how to raise kids, on worldview, on how to conduct a household, recreational interests, future goals etc.
But I think a good rule of thumb is to not expect anything and just appreciate what we get from others, even if we think it's not enough.
For me, the recovery journey is primarily personal, even though I can share it, or parts of it, with others, but other people have no responsibility for my personal welfare or health, that is entirely up to me.
When I finally realized this, things started to "click". It was right there and then when I had to emotionally separate from the woman with whom I had shared my life for thirty years! It was long after that she moved out. Of course my kids are now adults and on their own, so the timing was right, but I know how difficult it is with kids in the household. But a guy has to find his own way, with or without kids in the house. Those same kids will later appreciate it. It may mean sleeping in separate rooms, it may mean changing the habits in the relationship, even if the partner doesn't like it. The dependency is the problem, or at least a big part of the problem. My emotional dependency on others is what kept me in bondage.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Thanks for weighing in Dan When i refer to partners a lot of it has to do with the "partners" here on the site. I get the impression that they believe that it is not possible for one of us to have a wife who is not "anti porn" My wife could have cared less that I surfed porn. She had no interest in it so i never pushed her to join me in watching any. I tried once early on in our marriage she was clearly not interested so i turned it off and never asked her again. It does not bother her if I check out another woman's bum in fact on occasion she will pint one out for me. There was a time when she walked down the street in the mid 90's and the construction workers would cat call or whistle. I asked her how it made her feel and she told me in her own words "Um pretty damned good actually" Some would still whistle if it were "socially acceptable" today. My porn problem is my problem and i was taught by my dad from a pretty young age if you create a problem "man up and fix it" So recently I have really being digging deep as to what may have led me to A- get into porn in the 1st place and B- what has kept me hooked on it 15 years into my marriage. Its been an interesting study to say the least.

Post often it helps me it helps you
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Day 12 complete Just reading some other journals and a comment was made that "it might be so difficult for some to hear their experiences were difficult for some to read" I don't find it difficult reading anyone's experiences. I have been to the circus and back more than once in life.

Anyway time for a little Grateful Dead and than off to bed
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Day 14 came and gone/ Starting to wonder if my marriage is evolving into just being friends or if her control issues are so out of whack that she no longer knows the difference
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Sunday morning A response to my own entry from last night.....

Yep its the control issues. This all has to do with our sex life. Its been so busy around here the last 3 weeks that we hadn't had a chance to make love at all. In a nutshell all day yesterday she was giving me the impression we would be having a night of passion between the sheets but when it came she just went to bed leaving me feeling a bit confused. In the end we wound up doing it this morning.
When I say control issues I don't mean she is looking to control me. Its more she needs such a high level of control over her own life that it now affects me. I've always sort of taken issue with the fact that she wouldn't really ever initiate sex. So it almost felt like I was pushing her for it. Now it instead almost seems like a guessing game as to weather were going to make love or not. In August I will be seeing a marriage councilor on my own to explore these feelings and see if I am way off base or not, This will be for my own peace of mind more than anything. I am hoping it helps me communicate better with someone who feels they are a great communicator but is not. Its possible she is playing games and does not even realize it and my hope is that I can learn to work around them or set it up so that she does not need to play games like this without her ever knowing that that control and power has been removed from her
Things like this used to drive me straight to the porn. And believe me I came pretty close to it last night but just told myself that won't be the answer.

In general when I mention her control issues this is something she readily admits to. We see it in her mother as well as her grandmother and its been said in her family that her great grandmother was notorious for having control issues. My wife admits that she feels she needs to be in control of her environment at all times, and It is pretty much a defense mechanism, Just like porn was for me. Only thing is... I am finding better ways. And I will be exploring even more ways in the future.

Post often it helps me it helps you
 

GBS

Active Member
By the way I think your going to a counsellor is a great idea. I hope it levels things up for you. I totally identify with reaching out for porn when you get shunned in bed. After all (the old us speaking) that’s only fair. But we don’t do it anymore because we know it’s unbelievably dangerous and disrespectful and worse, so what do we do….we communicate and we endure.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Day 18

Typical day on the grind of going to work and supporting a family as I have done for the last 30 odd years or so Today was plus 32 with the humidex value reaching plus 40. For those in the US of A that would be plus 89 feeling like 104 I work outdoors in civil infrastructure. Very long days. We (more like I) run a small real estate rental business and of course as a man in 2022 I help out around the house with housework raising kids home maintenance and so on. A pretty heavy workload . I would not trade it for the world. I feel its my duty as a man.
How in the world did I ever find time for those hours of porn over the years. Why did I not lose my home my family my job? Because even as an addict I cared I had a conscience. I was bred by a very tough father and equally strong mother. I suppose not all addicts are created equally. My reason for giving up porn was I wanted to do a few things with that time. I am a musician and wanted to become a better player. I am also a gardener and wanted to grow more food and make my property look better. Only problem is whenever my wife sees me with a bit of free time she fills it up🤪🤪🤪🤪 I wonder how does one get around that one. Ahhhh perhaps those around here who like to hand out relationship advice might have some insight into that question.

just watched this video


I found it a little too one sided It certainly discussed the effects(see hurt) caused by men to wives by their porn use but offered very little insight on what to do about it I am finding that many of the "youtub videos on the topic of porn seem to focus on the effects but very few really have good info on A what are the causes compulsive porn use and B what to do about it It's so hard having to filter through the guilt trips in getting the help one needs

Post often it helps me it helps you
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
I keep seeing men tell women it is not about us. I sat and thought about that statement. It seems it is meant to get us on some kind of road to recovery. Such a simple statement.

And yet here is the conundrum, porn is not about us, BUT Once our husband gets into porn he talks to us less, he complements us less, he makes comments about our appearance, he goes to bed at a different time, he doesn't talk to the kids, we don't just have fun anymore, we don't have those spontaneous fun sex moments anymore, we see him ogling other women, he doesn't hug us often, kisses even less, is secretive, is furtive, is grumpy. How can we not feel it is us?

He does not want to be around us anymore. When we ask what is wrong, we are told NOTHING. But we feel everything is wrong. Then all of a sudden BAM. I'm sorry honey its porn. I have been MOing to all these young goregeous girls the whole time I have been ignoring you and our entire life. But hey its not you. Just forgive me it is an addiction. Suck it up, quit crying and I will stop. Oh yeah, that makes us feel good.

It does not. It makes us feel like shit. It takes a long time to get past that. And in order to work through it, and wrap our brain around the lies, we have huge pain. I wish I could describe the physical knife stabbing pain that was there in the beginning, the heart palpitations, the shallow breathing, the hypervigilence, the sense of loss, the feeling of no direction and the feeling of being so alone that we feel.

It can be worked through but only together and with each partner validating what is being said. But I can tell you, I will never be the same. There is a scarred wound from the hurt that came into our marriage. And it can only heal from the inside out. Porn significantly harms the marriage attachment.



Just saw this posted by Gracey in the partners section I am quite sure for some it is 100$ true. But is it possible many of these "facts and feelings" could be felt by either partner in a relationship due to many different issues? Could one husband or wife not turn to porn because of other issues in the marriage? That person than becomes the bad spouse. and it is all about the other spouse now when the 1st one could not cope and still has no voice because it seems the only one to have a voice is the partner of a porn addict .

Huge problems in our society and they can be the direct or indirect cause of marriage breakdown.

I have been given the impression by my wife many times when I felt I was overworked tired burned out (I have an extremely physical job working 50-60 hours a week... she works 9 to 5 in an office) that i'm only whining and being a bity lazy. Many times we go to bed at different times. Me sometimes later because I need to unwind(not by surfing porn) by listening to music watching a movie relaxing in the hot tub. Many times I have asked "what's wrong" ? only to be told nothing and later to be blasted for something i did, or forgot, or did wrong the list can go on. I think many of these things just come naturally after years in a marriage. We lose a bit of ourselves the moment we get married. Communication forgiveness and moving forward are what keeps the marriage on track

Post often it helps me it helps you
 

Gracie

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Dear Joe, I never, ever called my husband a bad person or an asshole. Nor did I ever call men that in my posts. I do think it is important that how this affects partners, whether married or not, or same sex or not. We are very similar to the addict in that we are experiencing something that we have never been through before and do not know what to do. Often many women feel that they were somewhat abandoned by their partner both emotionally and physically. That is why I like the quote, “They are the cause of the pain, and also the band aid”. That is also why I feel overcoming this works better when both involved in the relationship participate in the healing. I am not a believer in full intimate detail of what the PA watched or preferred in their addiction time. I think it is important to speak about how did we get here. In talking my husband and I both discovered things we could do to recommit and rebond in our relationship. I am not a man hater. I do not like what porn has done to our society. I post here to help. It may be a surprise to you but many men have reached out to me. And I have learned a lot from the men. When I started this journey the only thing I had were men’s forums. I asked questions, they answered. I am eternally grateful to them. At the same time, they had questions for me as a partner and they learned from me. I am glad you have a partner that gets your addiction and did not care you used. I hope someday, you truly get where you personally want to be.
 

joepanic

Well-Known Member
Dear Joe, I never, ever called my husband a bad person or an asshole. Nor did I ever call men that in my posts. I do think it is important that how this affects partners, whether married or not, or same sex or not. We are very similar to the addict in that we are experiencing something that we have never been through before and do not know what to do. Often many women feel that they were somewhat abandoned by their partner both emotionally and physically. That is why I like the quote, “They are the cause of the pain, and also the band aid”. That is also why I feel overcoming this works better when both involved in the relationship participate in the healing. I am not a believer in full intimate detail of what the PA watched or preferred in their addiction time. I think it is important to speak about how did we get here. In talking my husband and I both discovered things we could do to recommit and rebond in our relationship. I am not a man hater. I do not like what porn has done to our society. I post here to help. It may be a surprise to you but many men have reached out to me. And I have learned a lot from the men. When I started this journey the only thing I had were men’s forums. I asked questions, they answered. I am eternally grateful to them. At the same time, they had questions for me as a partner and they learned from me. I am glad you have a partner that gets your addiction and did not care you used. I hope someday, you truly get where you personally want to be.
Don't recall saying you called your hubby a bad person or an asshole or anyone else an asshole But at the end of the day if a partner can not at some point forgive and move on well than they must think the addict is a bad person. I'm sure many "men" have reached out to you for advice or an opinion and more power to both you and them. But I don't think I was one. But I certainly did get your advice and opinions in my journal. You have been welcome to post as you see fit in it I've never said no one couldn't. But funny how when I made a post in the partners section Mr. Deem had it shut down to comments(although it is still there for all to see). I don't recall calling you a manhater either. At the end of the day I believe it is just as important to explore what caused a man (and I use that term because I have never had contact with a female who is a porn addict) to become a porn addict in the 1st place and also what might be the cause of him continuing to use.... Its not only about dopamine now is it? as it is about partners healing and marriages getting back on track(if the porn use was what put it off track to begin with.
So the addict is the cause of your pain. I can totally see that. But as for the band aid well I never liked the band aid solution I prefer to stop what is causing the wound and than work on healing said wound. I never knew anyone who liked the band aid solution. As for your final comment about me someday getting where I want to be that's a whole other monstrous topic..... perhaps best discussed in private and to be honest there is probably no one more here I think I would want to lay it on than you .... perhaps you would than understand why I have the views i have,

Post often it helps me it helps you
 
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joepanic

Well-Known Member
Last night was Day 21 clean I had a long day yesterday and fell asleep

To explain my day I had a massive victory, I live about an hour from Toronto Canada(a really world class city) Over the years I would take the car with my bicycle in the trunk and ride the waterfront trails and paths So much to see and do food trucks live music and artists beaches everything you can think of. I have not had a chance to do this in 4 years due to of course covid some very busy years of work professionally etc. This trip also included a 10 minute ferry ride out to the Island, More of the same gardens trails fountains beaches..... and of course Hanlon's Point clothing optional beach. I always had my wife's blessing on this as she knew I was a nudist before we were married (she has no interest and I never pushed her to try it) In the past years I think I could place a link between the nude beach and my addiction. For the last 7 years I knew I was an outright porn addict and have tried to separate the nude beach experience with my porn addiction, with little success of course and a few times found myself either heading for a "massage" or heading home for a "session" which would usually run a few hours. Yesterday neither of those activities took place. A welcome change. After the beach I wandered through some old sections of downtown Toronto. Old Market areas shops restaurants and so on. Got ice cream took in the sounds and sites. Truly spent the day how I really wanted to spend it. On a last note of course there was no shortage of ladies doing their shopping in a big city. My eyes still wander. Change is definitely possible given the time and effort and education

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