Another story - probably the same as everyone else

[GBS]

Thanks @SimonM . I too was thinking along the same lines but came to the thought that there are literally millions of people watching porn. I think a vast majority will be watching such that they’re changed in the brain. The harm may be small but it may not be. I suppose it’s literally unquantifiable. That said my own personal porn usage, not to underplay it, nor the huge toll on my wife, was in the “a few times a week” category - it descended a little bit but not too low (in my opinion) - but I knew I was hooked because it made me sexualise. I didn’t mentally undress every woman in the street but my mind was creeping in that direction and spare half hours were spent reading erotica or thinking about it and my fantasy sexualised life was what I had. Whether I had a wife/partner or not, I was damaged and ill from my usage (I am avoiding saying addiction).

Does that mean those watching as often as I was were equally (or more) damaged? Don’t know. Presume they were. If someone watches daily - I think my friend is in this category - is it highly likely (nay a certainty) that he is desensitised and lives a sexualised life? I am close to 100% on that one. He won’t care I expect and will say he lives alone, no one is hurt, he loves masturbation, his sexualising is almost his hobby and what is the upside of stopping and being liberated? Is he suddenly going to prefer gardening? Will getting more stuff done elsewhere actually make his life better? I say yes, but he will say no.

The whole subject made me think. You can read all the neurological papers on this, you can watch seminars, you can learn that you’re on the right path and why, BUT how do you sell this to the man (or woman of course) in the street. This all presumes those I am selling to don’t have partners. The sell is way easier for those married ones or in a relationship, but my friend isn’t, nor does he want to be. That’s your homework for tonight, kids. Have your essays on my desk when I’m in tomorrow. I jest. But your comments are invited. Thanks again to @SimonM

 

[downhillfromhere]

I think for me, a guy who has been single for a few years now, the big selling point was how watching porn compulsively actually changes the way my brain works - or doesn't work, to put it that way. Brain fog, difficulty focusing, social anxiety and trouble talking to women are things I have been struggling with all of my adult life, and suddenly here is a possible answer to all of those things. I was scared straight after watching Gary Wilson's "The Great Porn Experiment", and I admit that the message might not have been as well received if it were presented in a different way. The focus on the science behind it convinced me, and the more I have looked into it and learned about porn addiction afterwards made me decide stay away from porn.

The way porn warps our view on women, and the way the porn industry exploits women is another thing that is really substantial the more you think about it. Even just realizing that you are likely watching some other guy have sex and getting off from it is kind of fucked up. Or if you're watching just a woman by herself, it's voyeurism.

I get that it's a difficult thing to explain in a way that will make your friend get the point. And if your friend is anything like me a few months ago, he might be experiencing some issues but is in denial about it. Like you say, if someone is using porn daily, it's likely to be a problem for them and not really just casual use. I was totally in denial. I knew I couldn't stop, but I also didn't know just to what extent it was affecting my life, the way it was making me deeply unhappy and unfulfilled.

 

[GBS]

Really good stuff, thanks @downhillfromhere - much food for thought

 

[neurons]

These are very good points. Thanks for raising them!

 

[GBS]

185 days no PMO. 33 days no MO. Everything under control. Feeling amazing. Wish wife would surprise me by taking her clothes off and sidling up to me in bad at 2am……but sadly not (yet). Before you ask, I think it’s stopped growing thanks but I am extremely pleased with the gift.

i won’t rehash what I said yesterday about my friend. I may never discuss it with him. I am utterly certain he won’t ever stop. He’s a very selfish person and the argument will almost certainly end in agreement to disagree. It is an interesting topic though.

Thanks @neurons and welcome if you’re new here. This is the best place to be if you want to fight off the beast.

We all have our favourite “go to” thoughts when we’re getting urges or we feel like we’re slipping. Indeed this whole journey is about how we deal with those moments. My mantra is so very simple - if I love the new me so much and I hate the old me who so hurt my wife, then why would I ever go back.

I had no idea when I started that I would feel like this. I just guessed I would be better without porn and get a better sex life as a direct result. Instead I feel like a new man, I exude confidence, I feel in charge, and I am liberated from hiding all the shit. I have no sex life at all, indeed I haven’t seen a naked female body (in the flesh, on screen, picture, anything) in 6 months. But that will hopefully come in future. Not playing the hurt child, guys. Promise!

33 days no MO - getting into the difficult territory. So far not a problem beyond standard urge to touch myself which I avoid. This time round my brain is rid of all the fantasies so it’s going to be different and arguably, I suppose, easier. You know I will keep you posted.

 

[GBS]

Morning all. 186 days sober and 34 no MO.

I have read a ton of stuff over these 6 months, and early on I did read some of the Gary Wilson stuff. The great porn experiment. It’s on YouTube as a simple TED talk and at 16 minutes duration really easy to take in. I watched it again just now.

In a nutshell we can all see ourselves as people he is describing. He talks about the brain changes and how they happen. Get yourself ready for an education in Delta FosB which is the key ingredient in your brain that when produced exacerbates our addictive personalities. I won’t preach (any more!) - just watch it please. I am not good at supplying links so just look it up.

Interesting fact from it: the speed of recovery from ED is significantly faster for over 50 year olds than the 20-30 year old group (sort of Yay!) because we , the older ones, started on porn mags and not high speed internet. According to Gary it takes us 2 months to get our mojo back but it’s more than double that for the younger group.

Gary doesn’t talk about not masturbating, he just talks about giving up porn, but I should think the recovery time is obviously fastest for the hard core group. Anyway he finishes by talking about the one control group that exists - there otherwise not being a control group because it’s literally impossible to find a group of 20 year olds who haven’t watched porn (!!!) - that control group is US. Yes, there are thousands of us giving it up but we’re the only ones that can be compared against.

Enjoy it

 

[Nico]

Thanks for your journal and good luck with the difficult territory in terms of MO - are you aiming to cut that out completely? I have heard that a few times about older guys recovering quicker - hope it's true but also aware a lot of my habits of fantasy have had 33 years and feel kind of ingrained. That said there's nothing permanent and I do feel excited about tantra and discovering sex that is more sacred and embodied.

I read your post about your single friend, and being single I have a lot to say, but for me the effects of porn use led to shame, less confidence, and even fear of sex. I would see a lovely woman and then remember that things weren't working properly and the thought of going through that or disappointing her would halt me in my tracks. Plus apparently the brain is deceived, and thinks when you look at porn that you've hit the jackpot and this reduces any motivation to find a partner, which is tragic really. I have seen a few films about men falling for AI women, even the Bladerunner remake, and found this sad and pretty much a metaphor for porn use. I even read somewhere recently that men can sort of fall in love with porn through the chemicals, meeting of needs etc, so quitting can be similar to breaking up with a partner. The more I understand the complexity of the problem, and the sheer tragedy of it, the more determined I feel to break free of it.
Anyway, in terms of trying to help him - I have come to see in AA and my job that I can't really help someone else with addictions (or usage!) until they are ready to change, or are beaten and want help, but I do believe you can plant seeds, and exemplify or mention the benefits and changes you've felt..

 

[GBS]

Thanks @Nico . There’s no doubt that we can’t change the world here. Your analogy that giving up porn would for some be like ending an almost perfect relationship (we all know it isn’t of course) is probably correct, and telling someone they have to see the light will possibly make them react negatively. We can but try.

I told my friend to watch the Great Porn Experiment and he said he would. I think he will find that very difficult to watch. I await his reaction.

 

[GBS]

Sorry @Nico you asked a question - I am intending to cut out MO for the rest of my life. It will need to be replaced with sex with my wife and that’s some way off at the moment. So I may have to release pressure if the wait goes on for (let’s say) another 3 months. Can I do 6 months without? I think so. Many can do that. I want to see what person that makes me into. He may have no finger nails I guess!

 

[Blondie]

This is a great conversation.

I have seen a few films about men falling for AI women, even the Bladerunner remake, and found this sad and pretty much a metaphor for porn use. I even read somewhere recently that men can sort of fall in love with porn through the chemicals, meeting of needs etc, so quitting can be similar to breaking up with a partner.

I think we're heading to a future world that will undoubtedly separate the real men from the boys in society when it comes to not only porn use, but especially AI, female robot sex dolls and VR. The men who succumb to these distractions will be lost to a literal matrix, and the rest of us will be free to live our lives.

I definitely agree that quitting porn is almost like breaking up with a digital harem. I wrote about that yesterday on @downhillfromhere thread. I believe @Gabe Deem or Noah Church came up with that analogy, but wherever it came from, it makes since and should be done.

Truly insane times we live in if you stop to think about it!

 

[GBS]

Thanks @Blondie . I wonder what percentage of, say, 20 year olds would think that VR sex with some woman of your porn dreams was actually something they desired. I am guessing a large %age.

I still like that Gary Wilson said back in 2012 that literally thousands were giving up porn. Thousands is a tiny percentage compared to the millio still doing it, but there’s hope.

I know I am going on about it, but I am going to make my 17 year old twin boys watch the Great Porn Experiment. I told them of my addiction back in late May and they are supportive if also predictably meh as well. I can educate carefully - surely as a parent that’s my duty. How many parents do this?

 

[TryingHarder]

Knowledge is power, GBS, so if you can steer your boys away from porn and warn them how harmful it can be, you're doing the right thing!

 

[GBS]

187 days no porn. 35 no MO.

My urges these days have changed in the last month. No longer is it fantasy based. I just feel that feeling in my loins that says if I get the chance I am going to have wonderful sex and I am going to give a great deal. The physical feeling at 35 days is a slight sense of pressure in the balls and a living stare of being about 30% aroused i.e. my dick is semi swollen in it’s flaccid state. Looks good to me.

Things going super well with wife just waiting for her to desire me again, or put another way desire me without fear of it going wrong. A long road, but one that is making me get better slowly. Get Better Slowly. GBS.

 

[GBS]

188 days no porn. 36 days no MO.

Not much to report. Sorry.

 

[TryingHarder]

No news is good news!

 

[GBS]

189 days no PMO. 37 days no MO.

Went to an SAA (sex addicts anon) meeting last night. Interesting debate. Our porn addiction is only part of our problem- some of us - porn probably caused some of our other behaviours but we need to address everything and going sober from porn and in my case also no MO is part of the fix. It actually does (I think) naturally heal other behaviours. What I am talking about is fantasies again. The debate last night is that people talk about being sober for x months but what they mean is sober from acting out - so no porn, no online chatting, no sex workers - but actual sobriety is from all the mind stuff as well. So if I was to run a counter alongside mine above it would say 0 days without fantasy. I had one yesterday. It was about my wife. It was far from blue or hard core but it was a fantasy. I think the point I am making is chill out. We should let the less wholesome fantasies go slowly - don’t grip on. Others if they’re soft and only involve us and our partners are surely ok, right?

Nice stuff on @Blondie ’s thread about being Mr Nice Guy and how our backgrounds almost certainly contribute to make us what we are. Certainly clarified some stuff for me and that’s probably saved me from trawling through obvious clichés and rhetoric at my therapy sessions. As someone said behind my back, I think it was actually my mum, “you know GBS will do anything for a quiet life” . I was actually pretty offended by that except it’s probably true. Mr Nice Guy sort of. Hide stuff you know others shouldn’t see, be what they want you to be, everyone’s a winner.

Being like that, now I look back, wasn’t difficult it just meant I got into the habit of only showing the lovely side of me and it became a habit to have imperfections because you know that can be hidden. At my worst I was watching porn, gambling, drinking and flirting- and that’s 10 years ago. Everyone said I was good at my job, I was popular. I had responsibilities and power. But I was also a giant fraud and not a good husband.

Jeez. Sorry guys. Boring.

What’s not boring is that giving up porn cures, or helps cure, some of the other problems. I did stop gambling before but now I can see how that one was fed by my dopamine addiction. Porn keeps so many other addictive behaviours alive. So I don’t gamble anymore, I am drinking way less, and my mind is free from sexualising so my flirting is no longer an issue. All because I addressed they key player in the dopamine crazed brain fuck - pornography. It’s a fact. Porn makes us into weird people.

Just in case you thought I had become some form of puritanical monk, 37 days is starting to test me. I can see ahead and there are problems. My brain is saying - ok, so not porn, but why not keep a saucy fantasy alive about your wife and give yourself a good 30 mins and off you go into the bathroom and knock one out, you know it’ll be amazing. That’s what I am dealing with. I think that’s an ok place to be, except I will resist. The frustration is driving me up the wall at the moment. 60 years old, haven’t seen a naked woman in 6 months, balls bursting, being a wonderful husband (cooked some lovely pork last night btw), so is this living the dream? Sheesh. This is an extreme test.

PS going to write a love letter today.

 

[GBS]

PS She said she loved the love letter. It went like this:

Yeah, right...as if I am going to tell you lot. That one's a secret.

 

[GBS]

190 consecutive days not looking at pornography.
38 consecutive days when I have not masturbated.

I just wrote that out in long hand to see if it made a difference to me. Minor difference. Obviously proud hopefully in the right way. It makes me reflect upon the journey and that’s useful because it seemed impossible when I started. The journey is far from over. So on we jolly well go.

Just bringing this book to your attention, those of you who stick on the over 40s forum - it was raised in @Blondie ’s thread in the 30s section so if you don’t go on there, you may not be aware. Book is “No more Mr Nice Guy” by Robert Glover. Easy to find (free) online. The title is very slightly misleading insofar as it could put you off. Essentially though this is a slight character assassination of types of men who can hide things through the veil of being something they perceive others want them to be. I have not read the whole thing but have made a start. Very tempting to read the traits and go ”me, me again, and again….” and somehow think someone has sussed you out who doesn’t actually know you. It’s entirely possible that a fair number of us on here have many of the Mr Nice Guy traits. I think I am two thirds him possibly. Book is a good read though so do go and find it. Thanks again to my pal @Blondie who is my second therapist these days!

Something else from my own pen: there’s an adage one hears early in life. “Men are only after one thing”. Said in the context of meeting someone it refers obviously to putting penis in vagina. I will keep this as short and sweet as I can. Arguably it’s just not true. Philosophically we may be wired to need sex, but that most certainly is not the one thing we’re after. I expect some will disagree. Again philosophically do we know what we want. If we knew that a loving relationship had amazing connected intercourse and that transcended any other type of intercourse (which it does), then isn’t that what men want.

So let’s try the adage again: the only thing that mean want is a loving relationship. There you go.

Now how shall we go about getting that? Hmmmm…..

 

[Blondie]

I'm glad you're finding that book useful @GBS.

Reading it is great, but the real meat and potatoes is to apply it! I've been reading it for ten years and I'm still working on that part . So many times I've read books like that and nod my head and say "Yes this is great!" but never really stop to apply it to my life - probably because that is a lot harder than just reading!

One day at a time lol

Best

 

[GBS]

You’re right. We/I possibly read too many of these self help books, including all the self help advice on here, and you can agree with everything then you turn your screen off and you have to practice what you have learned and that’s difficult. Also it’s difficult if you do practice it and do that again and again and there seems to be no discernible difference in the partner reaction. Hurt child? Me? I think there’s a great deal of serenity required in that blessed Serenity Prayer, where we need calmness and patience beyond what appears normal to accept the things that we cannot change.

My therapist says that I appear to need a plan for every situation. Current situation is me in good recovery, constant (possibly annoying) communicator, changed man, lost weight, get stuff done, do new stuff, empathetic to a fault….so what do I have to do next to make progress? Answer (unhelpful): no road map, soz. Stop looking for the instant answer. Stop insisting on a plan. If it happens it will happen. Cheers Mrs Therapy. Here’s my money.

Cynical I know. Just be the new me, be it all the time, don’t be a suck up, be helpful and kind and support myself in what I want to do. If that ends up being insufficient then that’s the way it was meant to be.

No more Mr Nice Guy. One day at a time….yeah yeah yeah.