Another story - probably the same as everyone else

[GBS]

466 days

Excellent self discipline yesterday, Was watching Black Mirror at recommendation of son. First one I watched had fairly graphic sex scene. So I just switched it off. I was almost surprised at my immediate action. It was almost like someone else was stopping me. I also got a pop up when I was Googling something and I could have seen bikini clad babes but again I shunned it. Not quite sure why I am mentioning this all except it felt (both times) like this new person was doing something. Almost an out of body experience.

Been an exhausting weekend but a good one. Wife looked so good yesterday. I won’t go on even though I want to.

 

[GBS]

467 days

Someone else’s journal mentioned the concept of “lust” the other day and it got me thinking a few things.

I think we’re scared of it. Somehow it’s the devil. Go down that route and we aren’t healed? Hmmm….I thought. This also ties in with objectification I think, but hear me out.

When I Googled “what is lust?” somewhere down the list there was comparison of love v lust. I read it. I am a bit of a sceptic as regular readers will know. Also in the search lust is described as one of the seven deadly sins. Along with (memory test here)….Pride, Envy, Wrath, Gluttony, Avarice (greed) and Sloth. Ok…I don’t think it’s controversial to say that most human beings lead their lives with these deadly sins to some extent ever present in who they are. The life we would like to lead would have little or none of these failings but to be realistic that’s nigh on impossible.

What human isn’t at some times greedy and wants more wealth? I won’t go through each one. We can try and eradicate them but we probably set ourselves up to fail. So when I read that (allegedly) love and lust are contradictory, I thought…hmmm, hang on, if I have a lustful thought am I failing here? Not sure I know the answer, but every hot red-blooded male will not be able to control some lustful thoughts and to try and make them utterly absent is futile.

I am being careful here not just to write something totally self serving, although in truth my own interests are at the heart of what I write. My point is this: there is some pressure on us addicts to make sure we don’t objectify and that we keep our thoughts to perfect love making not just “getting off”. I am on board with that. But I can’t admonish myself for admiring females and especially my wife. If I have lustful thoughts of my wife, is that ok? It’s not mentally undressing her every time I see her, just allowing my brain some space to keep me sane. She’s not a bunch of body parts, she’s my wife. Got the best smile on the planet. So we addicts must be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking we haven’t achieved our goal if we’re still having lustful thoughts about the one we love. It’s the word “lust” that gets in the way here - I don’t think lust is just me thinking about how I am going to achieve orgasm. Indeed it most certainly isn’t. When or if the thought is about mutual enjoyment of the congress, and this could include her orgasm when I don’t, then isn’t that definition of lust not just acceptable but actually desirable, healthy and part of the recovery process?

Just a thought.

 

[Blondie]

467 days

Someone else’s journal mentioned the concept of “lust” the other day and it got me thinking a few things.

I think we’re scared of it. Somehow it’s the devil. Go down that route and we aren’t healed? Hmmm….I thought. This also ties in with objectification I think, but hear me out.

When I Googled “what is lust?” somewhere down the list there was comparison of love v lust. I read it. I am a bit of a sceptic as regular readers will know. Also in the search lust is described as one of the seven deadly sins. Along with (memory test here)….Pride, Envy, Wrath, Gluttony, Avarice (greed) and Sloth. Ok…I don’t think it’s controversial to say that most human beings lead their lives with these deadly sins to some extent ever present in who they are. The life we would like to lead would have little or none of these failings but to be realistic that’s nigh on impossible.

What human isn’t at some times greedy and wants more wealth? I won’t go through each one. We can try and eradicate them but we probably set ourselves up to fail. So when I read that (allegedly) love and lust are contradictory, I thought…hmmm, hang on, if I have a lustful thought am I failing here? Not sure I know the answer, but every hot red-blooded male will not be able to control some lustful thoughts and to try and make them utterly absent is futile.

I am being careful here not just to write something totally self serving, although in truth my own interests are at the heart of what I write. My point is this: there is some pressure on us addicts to make sure we don’t objectify and that we keep our thoughts to perfect love making not just “getting off”. I am on board with that. But I can’t admonish myself for admiring females and especially my wife. If I have lustful thoughts of my wife, is that ok? It’s not mentally undressing her every time I see her, just allowing my brain some space to keep me sane. She’s not a bunch of body parts, she’s my wife. Got the best smile on the planet. So we addicts must be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking we haven’t achieved our goal if we’re still having lustful thoughts about the one we love. It’s the word “lust” that gets in the way here - I don’t think lust is just me thinking about how I am going to achieve orgasm. Indeed it most certainly isn’t. When or if the thought is about mutual enjoyment of the congress, and this could include her orgasm when I don’t, then isn’t that definition of lust not just acceptable but actually desirable, healthy and part of the recovery process?

Just a thought.

Good thoughts as always @GBS.

Yes, I see no problem with lust at all, but I'm also not a Christian, so there's that. Obviously, we need to be in control of it, and not let it control us, but as far as appreciating the beauty around us, well if that's called lust, I'm guilty as charged. I think one of the problems is that we treat this "problem" like an alcoholic would treat alcohol, that is, never drink again. However, this is not the same thing, you simply can't get rid of lust as you can't get rid of the desire to eat, fighting this "sin" only amplifies the desire. Personally for myself, learning how to appreciate women (lusting) without turning to porn, without cheating on my girlfriend, or being distracted 24/7, is the real key to success and personal growth. Finding that balance of appreciating but NOT over indulging takes real wisdom and growth, and will not be solved by some black and white commandment that no one has ever achieved in the history of the world.

Furthermore, unlike a black and white commandment, finding what works for you is fun and a good challenge to boot, and it makes you take responsibility for your actions and not blame them on some external force, be it Satan, women or dopamine (the scientific Satan!) etc. Also, by doing this, it takes into consideration that everyone is on a different part of their journey, where some might be able to handle certain things more than say, when they were at the beginning of their journey. A black and white commandant isn't wisdom in my way of thinking, it's an easy way out. The better question is, what can you handle and what can you not? Or possibly ever better, are you in control or not? Doing this exercise actually takes thought, wisdom and self reflection. The answer might not be the same for everyone.

There are no rules, just tools for each of us to figure out how we can approach life in the best way possible.

As the Greeks say, everything in moderation.

Just my two cents.

 

[Androg]

I am not sure “lust“ is a useful term. I think the “urge to merge“ is very healthy. It’s what connects us intimately with other people.

I would distinguish that from cravings, which can be very severe when one is addicted. I would also distinguish it from that desperate desire to scratch an itch just to achieve momentary relief.

Recovery from addiction is challenging because - for a while - cravings scream for satiation. And yet the more you try to scratch the itch, whatever label you put on it, the less true satisfaction or balance you find.

Contact with real potential partners helps a lot, but there is a period during which you just have to grit your teeth and rely on exercise meditation, socializing better diet and so forth to get yourself back in balance.

 

[GBS]

Gentlemen @Blondie and @Androg - thank you. I really didn’t mean to bring religion into this, so thanks for hauling me out.

Furthermore, unlike a black and white commandment, finding what works for you is fun and a good challenge to boot, and it makes you take responsibility for your actions and not blame them on some external force, be it Satan, women or dopamine (the scientific Satan!) etc

This is most profound. A good challenge. Taking responsibility. Not blaming anyone but oneself. So good. Cheers oh blond one.

Contact with real potential partners helps a lot, but there is a period during which you just have to grit your teeth and rely on exercise meditation, socializing better diet and so forth to get yourself back in balance.

Droggers - this is also on the money. When the chips are down, there is a great need for teeth gritting. Finding things to do. Not feeling sorry for myself or playing the hurt child. I haven had alcohol in 9 days. Not deliberate just happened. Just drinking tea (English, strong with milk…oh yes), and iced water. Do I feel better? You really are expecting me to say yes, right? No. I feel like excrement. And I wasn’t drinking much before this short wagon journey. Patience required.

 

[Percival]

Droggers - this is also on the money. When the chips are down, there is a great need for teeth gritting. Finding things to do. Not feeling sorry for myself or playing the hurt child. I haven had alcohol in 9 days. Not deliberate just happened. Just drinking tea (English, strong with milk…oh yes), and iced water. Do I feel better? You really are expecting me to say yes, right? No. I feel like excrement. And I wasn’t drinking much before this short wagon journey. Patience required.

Unfortunately, true. Some of our porn use is because of [insert various external reasons] but, at least for me, the primary reason is 'cause I like to look at it! Nothing more profound than that. And no, you won't feel better. You'll probably feel worse. Pretty much exactly like not eating junk food and starting exercise: it's a mind and self-control change more than a because-I-feel-better change.

A lot of porn-control, to me, is asserting self-control of myself with my higher brain, the part that can think and reason, rather than letting it devolve to the lower brain, the part that wants sex (or food or alcohol or whatever) now. All healthy and good and much better for you in the long run and also sucks right now. But I really do think it's worth it in the long run (even though I don't always act like it).

 

[GBS]

468 days.

I think I am roughly 3 and a bit weeks no MO. As I said not counting that one so furiously because it started to give me permission to wank when I got where I am.

A lot of porn-control, to me, is asserting self-control of myself with my higher brain, the part that can think and reason, rather than letting it devolve to the lower brain, the part that wants sex (or food or alcohol or whatever) now. All healthy and good and much better for you in the long run and also sucks right now. But I really do think it's worth it in the long run (even though I don't always act like it).

Thanks @Percival - it’s all about the brain my friend. It’s also about finding that balance between not being too hard on oneself and not being weak. But in all truth, we know inside ourselves whether we’re being strong enough. We can read on here and write paragraphs, and talk a good game, but when the chips are down we need strength and backbone.

I talked to two guys at the SAA meeting last night, both struggling. I said they had to give up masturbation. They were appalled. I was appalled that they were appalled!

Playing golf with a mate today so will be in a bad mood later! Not really.

 

[joepanic]

467 days

Someone else’s journal mentioned the concept of “lust” the other day and it got me thinking a few things.

I think we’re scared of it. Somehow it’s the devil. Go down that route and we aren’t healed? Hmmm….I thought. This also ties in with objectification I think, but hear me out.

When I Googled “what is lust?” somewhere down the list there was comparison of love v lust. I read it. I am a bit of a sceptic as regular readers will know. Also in the search lust is described as one of the seven deadly sins. Along with (memory test here)….Pride, Envy, Wrath, Gluttony, Avarice (greed) and Sloth. Ok…I don’t think it’s controversial to say that most human beings lead their lives with these deadly sins to some extent ever present in who they are. The life we would like to lead would have little or none of these failings but to be realistic that’s nigh on impossible.

What human isn’t at some times greedy and wants more wealth? I won’t go through each one. We can try and eradicate them but we probably set ourselves up to fail. So when I read that (allegedly) love and lust are contradictory, I thought…hmmm, hang on, if I have a lustful thought am I failing here? Not sure I know the answer, but every hot red-blooded male will not be able to control some lustful thoughts and to try and make them utterly absent is futile.

I am being careful here not just to write something totally self serving, although in truth my own interests are at the heart of what I write. My point is this: there is some pressure on us addicts to make sure we don’t objectify and that we keep our thoughts to perfect love making not just “getting off”. I am on board with that. But I can’t admonish myself for admiring females and especially my wife. If I have lustful thoughts of my wife, is that ok? It’s not mentally undressing her every time I see her, just allowing my brain some space to keep me sane. She’s not a bunch of body parts, she’s my wife. Got the best smile on the planet. So we addicts must be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking we haven’t achieved our goal if we’re still having lustful thoughts about the one we love. It’s the word “lust” that gets in the way here - I don’t think lust is just me thinking about how I am going to achieve orgasm. Indeed it most certainly isn’t. When or if the thought is about mutual enjoyment of the congress, and this could include her orgasm when I don’t, then isn’t that definition of lust not just acceptable but actually desirable, healthy and part of the recovery process?

Just a thought.

I lust after my wife all day every day and she loves every moment of it

 

[GBS]

469 days

Thanks @joepanic - it may indeed be the case that my wife loves the fact that I lust after her but she could never bring herself to say it out loud. Psychology probably all over this one.

And that said, yesterday was a lovely day. She has her first therapy session for at least a month coming up today. Obviously hoping something happens that moves us forwards. I shall let you know.

 

[Percival]

@GBS People are complicated! So are relationships. I hope the therapy helps Mrs. GBS, and I admire your patience and love for her. Glad yesterday was a good day.

 

[GBS]

Cheers @Percival - I came back late yesterday with my son as we’d been on a long day trip to a university. Train was delayed coming back so didn’t get in until 11pm. She was there to greet me. Nice top on. She knows they look good in that top. Nice hug. Nothing more. Just went to bed and slept apart in same bed.

Wood this morning is truly impressive. No surprise. No idea what she’s going to say or do today but obviously my hopes are up.

470 days sober.

 

[Blondie]

Good luck with everything sir.

Nice top on. She knows they look good in that top.

God I love when women do that

Best

 

[Jlied]

Good luck with everything sir.

God I love when women do that

Best

They know exactly what they are doing too! I use this tactic on my wife all the time, I wear my tightest shirt and my push up bra and when I open the door I stretch my arms as wide as I can from the door frame to the door so my shirt is even tighter. Then when she looks at me hungrily I act confused and say what?

 

[GBS]

472 days

Literally not one positive thing came from my wife’s therapy session. I asked just politely what was discussed and she brought up triggers and an example from a month ago where I stayed at a church drink’s reception for 45 minutes longer than I should. Also she said she was still totally exhausted and the bucket was completely empty.

It was one of the most devastating things to hear in 15 months, It makes me look at 472 days and think what’s the point. It makes me want to scream.

But maybe this is just another test. You see all the ducks were lined up in a row. I had every reason to be highly optimistic. Not acting like a hurt child and not showing deep self pity are my current biggest challenges.

I think @Androg said there are times when you need enormous teeth gritting skills. This is one of them. Grit, grit, grit.

 

[GBS]

Sorry forgot to say thanks to @Jlied - you did make me laugh. It’s still funny actually.

 

[Blondie]

Sorry to hear this @GBS.

It was one of the most devastating things to hear in 15 months, It makes me look at 472 days and think what’s the point. It makes me want to scream.

Whatever you do, remember, going back will never solve any of your problems and frustrations. I know you won't, but just a friendly reminder. The point of all this is to be a better man no matter WHAT happens with your wife. Hopefully, that will happen as well, but this is YOUR journey and it is separate from your wife's. No matter what happens between you two, you're not the same man you use to be, and that is a cause of celebration in its own right.

Screaming could help too, sometimes it's good just to let one out in a quiet place. Or a punching bag?

Best sir, again, sorry to hear this.

 

[joepanic]

472 days

Literally not one positive thing came from my wife’s therapy session. I asked just politely what was discussed and she brought up triggers and an example from a month ago where I stayed at a church drink’s reception for 45 minutes longer than I should. Also she said she was still totally exhausted and the bucket was completely empty.

It was one of the most devastating things to hear in 15 months, It makes me look at 472 days and think what’s the point. It makes me want to scream.

But maybe this is just another test. You see all the ducks were lined up in a row. I had every reason to be highly optimistic. Not acting like a hurt child and not showing deep self pity are my current biggest challenges.

I think @Androg said there are times when you need enormous teeth gritting skills. This is one of them. Grit, grit, grit.

Wonder what her therapist would think reading your whole journal.....

 

[Androg]

Wonder what her therapist would think reading your whole journal.....

Would it be possible to request a joint therapy session with her therapist?

There comes a point when just listening to someone whine and encouraging them to re-traumatize themselves by constantly repeating descriptions of their pain is not constructive. They may have reached that point.

Perhaps it’s time for some “out of the box” thinking.

 

[Jlied]

Sorry to hear this @GBS.


Whatever you do, remember, going back will never solve any of your problems and frustrations. I know you won't, but just a friendly reminder. The point of all this is to be a better man no matter WHAT happens with your wife. Hopefully, that will happen as well, but this is YOUR journey and it is separate from your wife's. No matter what happens between you two, you're not the same man you use to be, and that is a cause of celebration in its own right.

Screaming could help too, sometimes it's good just to let one out in a quiet place. Or a punching bag?

Best sir, again, sorry to hear this.

Not sure I could have said what you said in any better words. It’s exactly what all of us are here for. It’s our journey, it has to be for us or it will never work.

Geebs - no matter what, you will have found a version of yourself we all aspire to find.

 

[Jlied]

Wonder what her therapist would think reading your whole journal.....

@joepanic i think this is a great idea, but in my eyes I think a publication of the book he will eventually write would be an excellent reboot 101 for new members and old alike. I think he’s documented just about every emotion one could experience along this path and he’s stayed so even keeled about it. It’s a great example and eventually a great resource.