Hmmm.... What flashes into my mind is this research: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609519318697
Another story - probably the same as everyone else
- Thread starter GBS
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GBS
Respected Member
522 days
6 monk mode
Thanks @Androg - interesting reading, if a little depressing. No comment on why or how those suffered post coital effects found answers, so a little bit like being left on the edge.
If it’s true that my wife can’t move on because she’s still stuck in the past, then at least we know the problem. It isn’t actually complicated, it’s just not nice for her. Male chauvinists might say, come on love it’s been a year and a half, can‘t you embrace tge future. That isn’t going to be me. Very clearly tge answer to that is no at the moment. I would have thought the Sensate focus stuff would be the way to go, but all we progressed to is cuddling in bed.
We persevere.
6 monk mode
Thanks @Androg - interesting reading, if a little depressing. No comment on why or how those suffered post coital effects found answers, so a little bit like being left on the edge.
If it’s true that my wife can’t move on because she’s still stuck in the past, then at least we know the problem. It isn’t actually complicated, it’s just not nice for her. Male chauvinists might say, come on love it’s been a year and a half, can‘t you embrace tge future. That isn’t going to be me. Very clearly tge answer to that is no at the moment. I would have thought the Sensate focus stuff would be the way to go, but all we progressed to is cuddling in bed.
We persevere.
It might be worth helping her get to the bottom of what sets off the depression. Though they call it "post-coital," it may not be intercourse, but rather intense arousal. If the latter, you two could try a less performance-driven approach, instead of insisting on "showing her a good time." 
joepanic
Respected Member
GBS
Respected Member
523 days sober
7 monk mode
Lots of food for thought above. Thank you.
@Androg - that’s interesting….
@Gracie - again many thanks, but slightly ditto as above. I can/could suggest lots of things but she slightly needs to set the agenda rather than have me say - let’s do this. That, in her book, is pressure. It leads to anxiety and the walls go up. But I thank you nonetheless for your kindness.
About a year ago I wondered if I could last a year without. I thought that would be hard. At a year, I wondered if I would last 18 months….then I stopped wondering because it only gets me to a place where I set some ultimatum. That, my friend, I think would be the most crass and stupid thing I could do. Three things would be the alternative outcomes. Most likely: she recoils, reacts negatively to such a non empathetic approach and it goes down the pan. Second most likely: she ends up having sex with me because she doesn’t want to end the marriage, but she’s only doing it because I threatened her, which most definitely is not the sex I want to have. Least likely: she comes around and we reconnect physically and emotionally with no guilt, shame or sense of duty.
It’s tough. I endure. Not because I am weak, but because I am strong. I have a new level of patience from Rebooting. It’s one Of the phenomenal blessings I got from sorting my life out. I may be required to wait for some time yet. Others would have thrown in the towel by now. But I haven’t. Why would I? When the most sexy woman on the planet is the one I will have beautiful congress with. Madness to give up, utter madness. Which is why I won’t.
7 monk mode
Lots of food for thought above. Thank you.
@Androg - that’s interesting….
She didn’t actually say it was post coital, she just said that going back to bed would reawaken sadness feelings….I may be hair splitting. Your suggestion is a good one. It’s a slowly as we go process right now, so she needs to instigate discussion or cuddling that can be another route to discussing. She hasn’t done this in a few days. I am not complaining. I could but I know better. She is still in the throes of analysing the last months of her mother’s life, so this is a time where I need to back off from any pressures.
@Gracie - again many thanks, but slightly ditto as above. I can/could suggest lots of things but she slightly needs to set the agenda rather than have me say - let’s do this. That, in her book, is pressure. It leads to anxiety and the walls go up. But I thank you nonetheless for your kindness.
@joepanic - thanks for weighing in Joe. I sense you and I may be diametrically opposed on some things, but that doesn’t mean I can’t see your point. I am not sure if going toe to toe with you will advance the ball here But I cannot resist making comment. You and I are different people, we did different things in our marriages, our wives are different. What is the same about us all is we’re imperfect. My imperfections are clear as day to me. This is not a revenge exercise by her nor is it some form of repentance where I give in to every whim of my wife. It’s definitely realism because it’s happening now in the present. The amount of time it is taking is just that, an amount of time. No one can say what’s reasonable and what isn’t, unless you’re telling me you can. But you can’t because you’re not me and you have no idea what my wife is like.
About a year ago I wondered if I could last a year without. I thought that would be hard. At a year, I wondered if I would last 18 months….then I stopped wondering because it only gets me to a place where I set some ultimatum. That, my friend, I think would be the most crass and stupid thing I could do. Three things would be the alternative outcomes. Most likely: she recoils, reacts negatively to such a non empathetic approach and it goes down the pan. Second most likely: she ends up having sex with me because she doesn’t want to end the marriage, but she’s only doing it because I threatened her, which most definitely is not the sex I want to have. Least likely: she comes around and we reconnect physically and emotionally with no guilt, shame or sense of duty.
It’s tough. I endure. Not because I am weak, but because I am strong. I have a new level of patience from Rebooting. It’s one Of the phenomenal blessings I got from sorting my life out. I may be required to wait for some time yet. Others would have thrown in the towel by now. But I haven’t. Why would I? When the most sexy woman on the planet is the one I will have beautiful congress with. Madness to give up, utter madness. Which is why I won’t.
joepanic
Respected Member
This is I think true for everyone addicts and partners alike.
I too respect our slightly differing points of view. But your response really did not touch on my comment. The main comment was regarding how some women use sex as a tool for power and control I never mentioned you should give up on your wife. it does seem in this place we are not allowed to throw out other possibilities though. It seems that the only reason partners are the way we are is because we were porn addicts and that's the end of it. My wife was bad for using sex as a form of control or feeling of power. It was part of her greater control issues. She has since gone to see a therapist as I was beginning to lose interest in making love to her. Now our sex is better than ever.
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GBS
Respected Member
524 days sober
8 monk mode
Now I wasn’t born yesterday so I am aware that possibly some women do play games. I cannot say how many or guess at a percentage. Difficult to say what a power/control game is as there’s always two sides to a story. I would think the torture variety of power game without there being good reason, is rare, but I do not know. I don’t think in my lifetime anyone has toyed with me, but my memory could be flawed. If I thought for one second that my wife is doing that, I would be very surprised but it would be forgivable. I would stake my life on the fact that she isn’t. If you (or anyone else) wishes to scoff at that, go ahead. My head may be buried deep in the sand.
You said your wife has played control games with you. It would be unfair of me to accuse you of being in any way responsible for her behaviour but surely you played some part.
I have come to learn from my reboot that holding any form of grudge is not just a waste of time, but truly not part of my character anymore. Both my wife and I are imperfect and we’re recovering together. I have learned that grace and serenity are invaluable parts of me now. I do not have them in abundance, but I do have enough and it is growing.
Meanwhile we went swimming today. Pheweee…..hmmm…….[puff cheeks]…….not going to say anything. Testosterone levels are very high, that’s what I will say.
8 monk mode
Hi Joe and thanks. I too shall keep this respectful. Your comment is/was that Women (some of them) use sex as a bargaining chip (my words). I think I have translated some of your advice to be that if you were in my shoes, you would think/understand my wife’s withholding of sex as a power game, and you would say enough’s enough, have sex with me or it’s over.
Now I wasn’t born yesterday so I am aware that possibly some women do play games. I cannot say how many or guess at a percentage. Difficult to say what a power/control game is as there’s always two sides to a story. I would think the torture variety of power game without there being good reason, is rare, but I do not know. I don’t think in my lifetime anyone has toyed with me, but my memory could be flawed. If I thought for one second that my wife is doing that, I would be very surprised but it would be forgivable. I would stake my life on the fact that she isn’t. If you (or anyone else) wishes to scoff at that, go ahead. My head may be buried deep in the sand.
You said your wife has played control games with you. It would be unfair of me to accuse you of being in any way responsible for her behaviour but surely you played some part.
I have come to learn from my reboot that holding any form of grudge is not just a waste of time, but truly not part of my character anymore. Both my wife and I are imperfect and we’re recovering together. I have learned that grace and serenity are invaluable parts of me now. I do not have them in abundance, but I do have enough and it is growing.
Meanwhile we went swimming today. Pheweee…..hmmm…….[puff cheeks]…….not going to say anything. Testosterone levels are very high, that’s what I will say.
joepanic
Respected Member
Actually I never considered saying it's over. I simply told her I am no longer interested in "asking" her to make love. If she wanted to get fucked she knew where to find me and she could come and ask for it. I suppose she originally thought I couldn't live without it and would just keep on "asking" her. After that things started to get a little rough but I held my ground. I started to hang more by myself and she really took notice. She always felt the need to feel "needed" That I needed her more than she needed me. Someone once told me on the forum here something to the effect that "Your personal happiness should come from yourself 1st" guess I found out what they meant.
"Now I wasn’t born yesterday so I am aware that possibly some women do play games. I cannot say how many or guess at a percentage. Difficult to say what a power/control game is as there’s always two sides to a story. I would think the torture variety of power game without there being good reason, is rare, but I do not know. I don’t think in my lifetime anyone has toyed with me, but my memory could be flawed. If I thought for one second that my wife is doing that, I would be very surprised but it would be forgivable. I would stake my life on the fact that she isn’t. If you (or anyone else) wishes to scoff at that, go ahead. My head may be buried deep in the sand."
I could never scoff at anyone for something I don't have absolute proof over. I too feel that doing something like using sex as a power tool/game or anything else would be forgivable. i think everything is forgivable even being a porn addict.
GBS
Respected Member
525 days sober
9 monk mode
These are good days for my lower region. I had to masturbate 9 days ago, and the return to normal functioning thickness and indeed ready for action again was less than a day. That’s way better than things were 18 months ago when I was fucked up. It seems so juvenile and childish to say these things but the confidence I have with better functioning wedding tackle is actually huge. Pathetic but 100% true.
@joepanic - I think a point by point reply will not improve matters, so please excuse me. I do thank you for your candour nonetheless.
Whole family is gathered for weekend plus one of boy’s girlfriends is here. We will drink wine, eat lasagne, then eat strawberries, then drink more wine, then play cards. Borderline perfect evening.
9 monk mode
These are good days for my lower region. I had to masturbate 9 days ago, and the return to normal functioning thickness and indeed ready for action again was less than a day. That’s way better than things were 18 months ago when I was fucked up. It seems so juvenile and childish to say these things but the confidence I have with better functioning wedding tackle is actually huge. Pathetic but 100% true.
@joepanic - I think a point by point reply will not improve matters, so please excuse me. I do thank you for your candour nonetheless.
Whole family is gathered for weekend plus one of boy’s girlfriends is here. We will drink wine, eat lasagne, then eat strawberries, then drink more wine, then play cards. Borderline perfect evening.
GBS
Respected Member
527 days sober
11 monk mode
So nearly French kissed wife yesterday. I know that sounds odd, just go with it. It was a tender moment in bed. She didn’t stop me I just didn’t want to take advantage. It was a lovely feeling. Yes, the rock of Gibraltar did not let the school down.
11 monk mode
So nearly French kissed wife yesterday. I know that sounds odd, just go with it. It was a tender moment in bed. She didn’t stop me I just didn’t want to take advantage. It was a lovely feeling. Yes, the rock of Gibraltar did not let the school down.
GBS
Respected Member
528 days sober
12 monk mode
Tried to gave a conversation last night but got cold shoulder. I left it. It can be depressing these days. But I won’t give up. I do wonder sometimes if she wonders if I will give up. She must I think. I mean if she wants a perfect marriage she must know there’s this big issue just not being talked about. I will discuss this all with my therapist- but of course it’s not as if I haven’t discussed it before.
12 monk mode
Tried to gave a conversation last night but got cold shoulder. I left it. It can be depressing these days. But I won’t give up. I do wonder sometimes if she wonders if I will give up. She must I think. I mean if she wants a perfect marriage she must know there’s this big issue just not being talked about. I will discuss this all with my therapist- but of course it’s not as if I haven’t discussed it before.
GBS
Respected Member
529 days sober
13 monk mode
I was feeling a bit hurt yesterday but I didn’t sulk, I just naturally withdrew. I wasn’t playing hurt child or victim, I just didn’t have it within me to be all lovely and act like everything is fine. Lo and behold, wife sort of seeks me out, beckons me for hugs, is more tactile. No I am not suddenly going to play the ridiculous power game. I am bigger than that. Just thought it was interesting. On reflection it isn’t very.
13 monk mode
I was feeling a bit hurt yesterday but I didn’t sulk, I just naturally withdrew. I wasn’t playing hurt child or victim, I just didn’t have it within me to be all lovely and act like everything is fine. Lo and behold, wife sort of seeks me out, beckons me for hugs, is more tactile. No I am not suddenly going to play the ridiculous power game. I am bigger than that. Just thought it was interesting. On reflection it isn’t very.
On the contrary, I suspect that if you just be yourself, as you were this time, she won't feel like you are "being nice to manipulate her" (not that you were!). That creates space for her to start empathizing.
So, you're right not to play a power game sulking, but you were right to be yourself. Or at least that's my thought...helpful or not.
So, you're right not to play a power game sulking, but you were right to be yourself. Or at least that's my thought...helpful or not.
GBS
Respected Member
Thanks @Gracie - it’s a good mantra for me.
I have a few mantra (assuming that’s the plural)
1. Never return to being like the person I was before.
2. Change all the wrong things about yourself and stop worrying about the things you can’t change
3. Be your new self. Don’t force it by pretending to be sort of perfect
4. Accept the future will be whatever it will be. If it isn’t quite what you hope it will be , that isn’t a reason not to enjoy life.
I was gonna stop there, but I almost forgot
530 days
14 monk mode
I have a few mantra (assuming that’s the plural)
1. Never return to being like the person I was before.
2. Change all the wrong things about yourself and stop worrying about the things you can’t change
3. Be your new self. Don’t force it by pretending to be sort of perfect
4. Accept the future will be whatever it will be. If it isn’t quite what you hope it will be , that isn’t a reason not to enjoy life.
I was gonna stop there, but I almost forgot
530 days
14 monk mode
GBS
Respected Member
533 days sober
17 monk mode
It is an inescapable fact that my brain is continuously healing. It is not healed, past tense. That could be depressing news but I look at it this way. The various flatlines and changes in fantasy awareness can be very scary. I am not who I was. That’s obviously really good, but part of me liked being someone who got horny fast. I do miss it, but I also know as a fact that recovery means becoming as “normal” as possible. Normal will definitely mean not being horny as much.
And then we throw in my non-masturbatory mantra. The brain should be churning out new signals every day now (17 days without) saying surely you feel horny? And I don’t today, nor did I yesterday. I am fine with it. It defines who I have become. Trying not to be arrogant and (the wrong type of) proud, just happy that it’s changed and will continue to do so.
This, my friends, is the way it is. Grasping desperately to the past is the problem. You have to say you will accept the changes however unpleasant the reality is. For the new life is better than the old one.
Had therapy yesterday. We discussed the elephant in the room: my wife’s inability to even consider discussing moving on. She said it made her sad when I last pushed her to discuss. We’re gearing up for a big holiday and the boys are off to universities so the next month will be fraught with distractions. My therapist said that after that I can suggest couples therapy possibly. It’s going to be make love or break love time fairly soon methinks.
Stay clean boys. Have a good weekend.
17 monk mode
It is an inescapable fact that my brain is continuously healing. It is not healed, past tense. That could be depressing news but I look at it this way. The various flatlines and changes in fantasy awareness can be very scary. I am not who I was. That’s obviously really good, but part of me liked being someone who got horny fast. I do miss it, but I also know as a fact that recovery means becoming as “normal” as possible. Normal will definitely mean not being horny as much.
And then we throw in my non-masturbatory mantra. The brain should be churning out new signals every day now (17 days without) saying surely you feel horny? And I don’t today, nor did I yesterday. I am fine with it. It defines who I have become. Trying not to be arrogant and (the wrong type of) proud, just happy that it’s changed and will continue to do so.
This, my friends, is the way it is. Grasping desperately to the past is the problem. You have to say you will accept the changes however unpleasant the reality is. For the new life is better than the old one.
Had therapy yesterday. We discussed the elephant in the room: my wife’s inability to even consider discussing moving on. She said it made her sad when I last pushed her to discuss. We’re gearing up for a big holiday and the boys are off to universities so the next month will be fraught with distractions. My therapist said that after that I can suggest couples therapy possibly. It’s going to be make love or break love time fairly soon methinks.
Stay clean boys. Have a good weekend.