Rebooting trough self-parenting

[jonazo91]

This !!

Good to see you, EW...! It is difficult to not moralize P, for me given my background, but it is possible and even necessary to be nonjudgmental, especially as this helps toward the mindful approach we want.

And to organically have P fade out is the natural way to do it, to literally outgrow our addiction.

Not energizing thoughts, urges, or decisions made toward P, which only serves to make these things 'sticky' and hard to shake, is key. If something arises, observe without responding for or against, and let it fade on its own, is how we change.

Wishing you well!

Man, do I need to internalize this. I do happen to think porn is immoral, yes, but there are a lot of things I consider immoral that I don't have an obsessive/compulsive relationship with. I don't go through loops in my head trying to convince myself not to murder anyone. I'm not comparing the two as equals, just making the point that the morality of something doesn't have to inform how hard I fight against it in my mind. Accepting that it's something I struggle with, that it will intrude upon my thoughts from time to time, doesn't mean I have to go into panic mode to try and resist it. I think I freak out because I desire this freedom so bad, but it never comes. Freaking out about the immorality of it is doing me no favors right now and it was helpful to read this exchange.

 

[Blondie]

ancestral patterns (dysfunctions in maternal or paternal lines - like a whole lot of alcoholism in both father and mother lines)

I definitely know that this part of my life has greatly affected me and my life struggles, both genetically and environmentally. Way to be on looking at this from a bigger perspective and seeing it for what it is, a multi dimensional issue that can't be solved with just one trick or tool out of the toolbox. What's great about this is that you can be the first to break the family cycle and bring stabilization back to your family name. The ancients always talked about things of that nature, how families rise and fall but can always be brought back by a family hero of sorts. It's the stuff of myth and legend!

Best to you @EarthWalker

 

[Phineas 808]

Man, do I need to internalize this. I do happen to think porn is immoral, yes, but there are a lot of things I consider immoral that I don't have an obsessive/compulsive relationship with. I don't go through loops in my head trying to convince myself not to murder anyone. I'm not comparing the two as equals, just making the point that the morality of something doesn't have to inform how hard I fight against it in my mind. Accepting that it's something I struggle with, that it will intrude upon my thoughts from time to time, doesn't mean I have to go into panic mode to try and resist it. I think I freak out because I desire this freedom so bad, but it never comes. Freaking out about the immorality of it is doing me no favors right now and it was helpful to read this exchange.

Grateful that this was of help, jonazo!

Of course I know that P, PMO is a moral issue given that men and women are hurt by the porn industry, not to mention the people hurt in our own lives (including ourselves) because of our own use. When we have selfishness versus the greater good, we have moral and ethical considerations.

But, when we apply morality as a tool in our own lives, this usually works against us...

How I deal with it in my own struggles is that:

1. Ultimately, as a grand arc of recovery and healing, yes, I am in this thing ultimately for moral reasons. Not only will I be my best self, but my family and society as a whole will benefit from my victories.

2. Proximately, however, I avoid applying moral considerations or judgments on myself, especially if I struggle, fall or lapse. Why? Again, it makes the behaviors 'sticky' and promotes the whole cyclic nature of the 'trigger-lapse-remorse-promise-trigger- lapse' cycle.

Being mindful and nonjudgmental helps us to step outside of this unnecessary cycle and allow the brain to naturally find harmless solutions to the pains and stresses of life.

 

[EarthWalker]

What's great about this is that you can be the first to break the family cycle and bring stabilization back to your family name.

Love how you view this. I am still in the process of finding peace with all the dysfunctions I inherited from my ancestors. I guess this is what "inner work" is about.

 

[EarthWalker]

I think that being able to redirect the thoughts is the key with dealing with P specifically. Use of P always start with thoughts. Starts with an image. At least this is my own understanding. There is always an image involved. Then by spending more thoughts on it emotions/energies are added like this lustful feel good energies. Then more and more until a PMO.

I have a mini test to see how far I have come. I've watched this sports event yesterday. There were some dancers involved in this latexy leggings. It turns me on. I find this kind of clothing is becoming more and more common. I am getting turned on by some piece of clothing?

Back to making a point of it always starts with an image. So there is this image of this dancer in this clothing. And then some thoughts are added like I should google for latex leggings. And some slight sexual energies. Oh boy. Doing double facepalm.

Redirect the thoughts. It is getting easier and easier to do this. So far it has been a pretty smooth sail. The only other time I had a little issues is when I was at a coffee shop with a friend and there were a bunch of girls and women in this latexy leggings.

Now I am getting the thoughts to view the sports event again and look at the girls in latexy leggings. This is textbook relapse scenario.

What is the highest outcome I can expect from further indulging in the leggings thoughts? It will start with me watching the sports event again, then googling for images then it will progress me being on some P sites looking at girls in leggings then a PMO. Then feeling bad about it.

I am going to listen to some heart centered music and do a meditation instead. Redirect and quiet the thoughts.

Onwards and upwards brothers.

 

[Blondie]

Googling for images was my bread and butter before relapsing. They always went hand and hand lol. Hell, probably half of my porn was not "technically" porn, but pictures of women in leggings, yoga pants and lingerie, then the other half of my session was real porn. But don't get my wrong, both were fucking up my brain so it's all the same in the end. You're absolutely right though, just redirecting that energy is key to not getting stuck in another relapse. If you give your brain a chance to think even for a moment that it's 1% okay to look at porn, that WILL sink your ship eventually, it's inevitable. That's why my motto is porn is an not option. I know it's cliched and it doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me, because I have to do something else with that energy.

Because, as soon as we go down that road of regret, all we get is wasted seed, wasted trees (Kleenex) and cummy screens, and a dash of extra loneliness for the cherry on top.

Best brother.

 

[EarthWalker]

Test passed.

Now another. Had a P dream. Woke up before it would become a wet dream. The P dream left some P scenes in my mind when I woke up.

This P is about a combination of images + promises + energy/feelings.

What the image promises to give you in terms of rewards (energy).

All the mind programming is strong. The P images / P scenes are not the most healthy yet there is some allure to them. This said. No thank you.

There is the promise of feeling good about yourself, the promise of fixing my self-worth, promise of fixing boredom, promise of fixing loneliness, promise of fixing depression, etc.... and just the promise of having a good time. But is it really a good time?

The key is redirecting the thoughts, and the trick is in finding why you cannot redirect the thoughts. The stickiness. This P images sure are sticky.

The highest value outcome is to just let the thoughts go by focusing on something else. Anything else.

Clearly seeing what the outcomes are. P addiction sure clouds judgement. This is where emotional healing work and having clarity of emotions and clarity of thoughts. Clearly seeing what is coming up. Also being grounded this helps as well.

Also one super important thing to get right. I find that you can throw any psychology tools about thoughts and emotions out the window. If you don't have containment. Have a container set up for yourself and are grounded.

Exercises such as getting some rope and make a circle out of rope around yourself and sit, stand or lie in the middle. Imagine a container.
Tapping your body and saying this is my hand, this is my elbow, this is my forehead with the intention to assert sovereignty.
Other-wize we get lost in the thoughts.

Anyway
Onwards and upwards

 

[EarthWalker]

@Blondie Came across "turn generational courses into blessings" today together with your "break the family cycle and bring stabilization back to your family name.". Life is trying to tell me something.

Keep killing it man.

 

[EarthWalker]

Ended up MOing last night. I think I was somewere around day 40 of no fap. NoP is still going. The "pressure" started to build and became a bit unmanageable. I am noticing as I do some emotional clearing and healing work. The sexual energy takes longer before it builds up to a point it feels stagnated and blocked. Ideally I think this sexual energy would be just flowing around my body and nourishing the body. Still a lot of emotional blockages I need to address.

So far in terms of P. Doing well. It is not a struggle. It is not a fight. As I want to "win the war" without fighting.

P fantasy is slowly being replaced with the girls I see in real life. I think this is a good improvement. Unwinding the addiction.

People fantasized about sex before P? Right? It is all right.

Internet P at least for me really messed up fantasies. And maybe what is the problem it made fantasies obsessive and also in a way compulsive and messed up in terms of fetishes / content.

Before Internet P. I think people used to have normal fantasies. PIV maybe BJ. Normal stuff about a girl you see at the bar or at yoga class or somewhere else. Done without being obsessive or compulsive about it. Yes. Desire, need. This is all good. But obsessive desire and obsessive need is not bringing the greatest happiness.

Also had a P dream today. This caught me off guard. I thought the MO should do the trick. Nope. I felt energetically good after the MO. Not drained or anything. More alive. But this P dream depressed my energies a lot.

But to my surprise the chaser is not that bad.

Onwards and upwards.

 

[Androg]

Good insights.

 

[EarthWalker]

Feeling odd. Just scratching my head... is this it? Just don't watch P? P has been part of my life for wow since age 14. For something like 20+ years.

Feels like I've come to a point in the game that I have not come before. Just keep on walking the walk? Don't watch P? Don't masturbate? Just focus on something else? Build something? Make relationships? Enjoy life? Feels weird and unfamiliar.

Flying Into the danger zone. Will see what happens.

Classic. Getting some urges to google for some images. Just a few harmless pictures. Yeah, right.

Onwards and upwards.

 

[EarthWalker]

Did some Google image search, but not for P, for P recovery timeline. Ha. Attached.

Also a copy paste from https://www.covenanteyes.com/2021/11/03/how-long-does-it-take-to-recover-from-porn-addiction/

A Realistic Timeline for Porn Addiction Recovery​

As we’ve seen, there are all different levels of porn addiction. All these variables make absolute predictions about recovery time impossible. However, there is research that can help us see how long it takes someone to break free from a serious porn addiction when they’re committed to the process.

Sex addiction expert Patrick Carnes conducted a study that covered five years of addiction recovery. Carnes suggests a timeline for six stages of recovery.5

1. The Development Stage: This is the stage prior to acknowledging there’s a problem. Some are here only briefly. For others, it takes years. Some people never recognize there’s a problem with porn. The timeline won’t start until someone is past this stage.
2. The Crisis/Decision Stage (0-3 months): This stage lasts anywhere from one day to three months. “At some point, the addict crosses a line where there is a fundamental commitment to change.” For many, it’s a life-shaking crisis, such as being caught looking at porn at work or a spouse threatening to leave. For others, it’s simply a decisive moment when they choose to no longer be controlled by porn.
3. The Shock Stage (1-8 months): This stage may be the most difficult for individuals in recovery. Carnes advises, “Disbelief and numbness alternate with anger and feelings of separation.
   Addicts describe physical symptoms of withdrawal that are at times agonizing. They also report disorientation, confusion, numbness, and inability to focus or concentrate. Feelings of hopelessness and despair become more intense as their sense of reality grows.”
4. The Grief Stage (6 months): This is where someone begins to deal with the pain caused by porn. They also dig into the underlying causes of their porn use, which can result in a period of deep grieving and emotional turmoil as these issues are unearthed and dealt with.
5. The Repair Stage (18-36 months): Once the grief stage is complete, the person in recovery focuses on learning balance, self-care, and positive habits that can replace porn. This is an exciting and positive time for people in recovery. Based on Carnes’s timeline, this period can last up to three years.
6. The Growth Stage (2+ years): This is the final stage of recovery. It marks a mature outlook on life and one’s relationship to porn. They can look back on the addiction to porn with gratitude for what they’ve learned. Dr. Carnes says, “Relationships with partners, friends, children, and family go through a period of renewal. Here, too, is where life-satisfaction measures showed improvement in the study.”

Dr. Carnes found that most slip-ups occur six to twelve months into recovery, but those who persisted experienced increasing success after this.

 

[EarthWalker]

Overall I agree somewhat 50% with content. But I think 3-5 year timeline is accurate.

Took me somewhat 2 years to trial and error and practice to get some psychology tools that work for me. There are some important nuances that need to be taken into account when applying various psychology tools. Like for example you need grounding and containment for mindfulness to work. Anyway.

Onwards and upwards

This explains how I feel right now.

 

[EarthWalker]

I like the name stability for the phase. Indeed finding stability with people, places, things. Not stressing out over paying the bills, not stressing out over relationships, career, physical health, etc. Together with some good psychology tools to reach consistency in staying away from P.

This is a good goal. Reaching stability.

 

[EarthWalker]

Ended up with an MO as the urges went a bit and beyond.

Glad I didn't peek or other-wize intentionally search for any P or P substitutes. I have plenty of P in memory. I have like a mini P site in my mind. Not something I can or should be proud of. But something to be mindful about.

 

[EarthWalker]

Maybe accurate to say I am sex slave. In the past you could see your slaver's face. Today you look in the mirror. This maybe sounds a bit more harsh than it is. But can't help but feel like there is some truth to this.

Maybe the term porn slave is quite accurate and on point.

I have a choice to either hold P thoughts in my mind or not. It is slightly more complicated than this as there are some emotional issues that needs to be processed and ancestral issues and some other issues etc. But for the most part it is true.

Also got me thinking today. About happiness. Maybe I should feel some intrinsic happiness. Just being happy for being alive. Even if I don't have the relationships that I like. I do have a good career going but I don't view it as a source of happiness. It does give me stability that I am grateful for. Interesting there is always something that is missing that is like the happiness is somewhere outside of me. When I will get some nice girl then I'll be happy.

Maybe I can have a certain base level of happiness that is independent on the outside? Maybe the bar is set too high in our modern society? Even the average or bellow average person is quite rich today compared to a few decades ago. Maybe a change of perception would be a good idea?

Can I be happy even if I am not in a "nice" relationship?
Can I be happy even if there are still some P thoughts showing up?

The irony, when you don't need something you can feel the happiest about it. Like in sports. When you go to a competition not because you need it but because it is fun. You are there to enjoy yourself first, without this neediness to have something in order to feel good about yourself.

Needing a relationship in order to feel good about myself. Can I feel just good about myself as is? Intrinsic self worth?

Onwards and upwards

 

[the_correct_wolf]

If you can't be happy without a relationship, you won't be happy in a relationship. It's false hope. If you're not happy with who you are the relationship will only distract you from this for a while. You can't escape yourself and no one else can change you or change your self worth. This is a lesson I have learned the hard way, and my wife learned an even harder way. No matter how much someone else wants to change you, no matter how much you want someone else to do the work, it is not possible.

 

[EarthWalker]

If you can't be happy without a relationship, you won't be happy in a relationship. It's false hope. If you're not happy with who you are the relationship will only distract you from this for a while. You can't escape yourself and no one else can change you or change your self worth. This is a lesson I have learned the hard way, and my wife learned an even harder way. No matter how much someone else wants to change you, no matter how much you want someone else to do the work, it is not possible.

Beautifully said.

 

[EarthWalker]

Doing well in regards to the P front.

There might be some truth in saying that P is mind control programming. Just like MkUltra stuff. It is all about the mind.

Self-enslavement slave programming. P slavery.

 

[EarthWalker]

One thing let to the next, as for a few days getting bombarded with P thoughts and urges. I ended up browsing a bit of sexy stuff on tiktok. I didn't M to it. Was amazed by the emotions. I felt aroused, I also could discern anxiety, also something like entrapment feeling. What a mess of emotions, thoughts and beliefs. There are also beliefs of unworthiness. P is the best you can have, etc. I am just like scratching my head. Wtf did just happen to me? When did I decide to wake up in a nightmare?

It is what it is. I think a tug of war is accurate description. My old conditioning, all the mind programming of P (past) vs my future self I want to bring in the present.

Getting a lot of P thoughts coming up lately. I'd like to think this is just old conditioning coming up to light so it can be processed and let go off.

Hopefully I'll be able to disengage from this need to act on arousal. This programming of when feeling aroused must act on it with PMO. It is possible to just hold space for arousal and not act on it. Just like I am able to hold space for let say grief. It is emotional energy. You just hold space and it transmutes. The same can be done for arousal.

Maybe I am onto something. My sleep is all messed up. Eating a lot more sugar than usual.

Thoughts -> on thought level I can ask the question of what is the highest outcome I can expect from engaging with P - don't get caught up with the false promises of P

Emotions -> this is where I have the most difficulties, being able to hold space for arousal energy without getting overwhelmed by it and the lust, the desire, but be able to remain centered and let the arousal, lust energy to just organically transmute

Beliefs -> this is where a lot of unworthiness is, sooner or later I'll have to address my beliefs about relationships and self-worth, etc.

Onwards and upwards