Another story - probably the same as everyone else

[GBS]

398 and 21

Wife’s niece is coming to stay. Wife’s mother is still a major health worry. I went to Liverpool yesterday for my son’s final audition All the above are reasons why progress has been non existent in the GBS household. Number of cuddles since that was announced a week ago: 1.5. She just forgets I think. But she is very busy so there’s no pressing problem. It’s just all going at snail’s pace. It’s fine really.
Had a dream about her the night before last. I can’t say anything because of triggering protocols. Let’s just say it was a good one. Well done brain, you’re doing a good job. Morning wood was frankly most impressive.

Stay sober and vigilant friends..

 

[guitar1968]

Hey @GBS - can I ask you if you have any thoughts of ending your marriage? I'm in a similar boat with my wife. No sex, no cuddling, no kissing... etc. It's not because she discovered my porn use. I never hid it. Our relationship has just deteriorated over the years. Porn was part of it, how I treated her about sex, etc. However, I'm at the point that I just don't see our relationship coming back. I don't think I'm ready to live the rest of my life without intimacy. It doesn't have to be sex all the time, but it would be nice to cuddle on the couch watching some Netflix.

I don't ask to be rude. Just wondering how deep your commitment is and how you see the rest of your life playing out. I guess maybe that is a rather big question. Having children and in-laws and a shared history is hard to walk away from. I would really prefer to fix my marriage, but I'm not getting any signs from the other party that she wishes to fix them.

Hope you find a resolution with your spouse. Good luck.

 

[Androg]

Maybe ask her what her plans for the marriage are, and say you'be been wondering what's best for all concerned.

 

[GBS]

399 and 22 - numbers are climbing

Thanks @guitar1968 and @Androg . I am touched by your concern. The simple answer @guitar1968 to your question is that I have given no thought to ending the marriage. Actually that’s not true, I have given it a little thought. I couldn’t end it. It’s impossible. Maybe it’s a weakness but as I love her, just ending it is not logical nor desirable. It’s not like there is anything but love in the house. So where’s the intimacy, right? Why wait this long? Why get your man to turn his life around and then say “not yet, buddy”. Is it deliberate torture? Well if it was I would be out of here so fast, the dust would blind you. It’s just her speed. She said she wanted this to go at her pace, and I am honouring that.

@Androg - thanks. I know her plans. She wants us to remain married forever. It’s as simple as that. As for plans when the relationship becomes intimate, there is no schedule obviously. What we are scheduled to do is have an emotional check in. That was from her therapy- meant to be every other day or so. Hasn’t really happened. That I can initiate. That’s where I can say , we haven’t done much cuddling, or is it just me? The response will be defensive and make me feel guilty for saying something. I shall tread very carefully.

The whole subject of who initiates sex is one for debate actually. Men probably do so more than women. When you’re in a fixing stage though, it’s more delicate. Men love it when women initiate because there’s a sign they want sex too. I think it’s as basic as that. But in recovery when men have a background history of extensive porn abuse, one can find oneself in a bit of a stand off. The man wants it not to be demanding sex, and the woman shouldn’t feel any pressure at all. The answer to this all is communication obviously.

Our communication is ok but we are stuck. She would say we’re not stuck, she’s just going slowly. It’s very slightly hurtful to me because I think (trying not to dip too much into self pity) that it feels like rejection and lack of desire. It’s well over 13 months now. It starts to feel like she’s not certain in herself whether she fancies me. She knows all too well that if she said that to me I would be a broken man. I shall ask my therapist next week what is the best way to handle this.

 

[Beautiful1973]

What we are scheduled to do is have an emotional check in. That was from her therapy- meant to be every other day or so. Hasn’t really happened. That I can initiate. That’s where I can say , we haven’t done much cuddling, or is it just me? The response will be defensive and make me feel guilty for saying something. I shall tread very carefully.

You shouldn’t feel guilty for asking for intimacy @GBS

 

[joepanic]

By this point I think I would have started to withdraw myself more. Not so much leave the marriage but start sort of living my life more alone perhaps going off to my practice space and playing more music. spending more time away so as not to have to think about it. Basically doing something I love almost as much as "intimacy" Sort of fill the void. i would not do it in such away as to take anything or time away from the marriage other than the time that would have been spent on intimacy. I would certainly not pressure my wife but in a funny way the time that would have been spent on intimacy is now "free time" It won't be used for additional help around the house or more chores because those things would not have gotten done if the time were spent on intimacy. it might sound harsh but I don't think it is breaking any part of a marriage vow in any way.

 

[Androg]

Might she agree to setting "snuggle days" twice a week, so no one has to ask?

 

[GBS]

400 and 0. I was too wound up.

Well thanks for chiming in guys and gals.

@Beautiful1973- well, hello again. So lovely to hear from you. You’re right I shouldn’t feel guilty asking for intimacy. Maybe it isn’t guilt it’s wariness that this is very finely balanced right now and delicacy is required. That said, in 10 days 1,5 cuddles is a pathetic return. Actions speak louder than words.

@joepanic - thanks man. I think withdrawal by me just makes it worse. I am naturally withdrawn anyway these days because it seems so desperate to seek out a hug/squeeze. Desperate is not the mood I want to give across. I know from my journal it’s like you guys want to shake my wife and tell her to wake up and smell the coffee, but as `I said above, this is delicate.

@Androg - thanks. I am going to Give that some thought. Intuitively it feels like if it’s scheduled then it’s not natural and done by desire, but if the alternative is nothing, then maybe what you suggest is right.

Been a busy couple of days with wife’s niece (from US) visiting us here in UK. Plus I have lots of music going on as we approach Easter. And with a choir to manage there are attendant issues of admin and rehearsal that make life very busy. So a little perspective required on the putting pressures on the wife thing. When dust settles after `Easter however, there will be no real excuse.

Recovery time after MO yesterday was phenomenally fast. That’s definitely a hard core mode reward.

Stay sober and look out for the devil as he lurks in the shadows, seeking out who he may devour. Steadfast and resolute. We shall never give in.

 

[guitar1968]

All of this is very tricky. I hear my story in all of yours.

I'm glad you love your wife and still want to be with her. I've lost my desire to stay married. But I'm far past 13 months with no sex and we don't hug, cuddle, kiss or anything these days. I'm just worn out.

I've done what @joepanic has done. I'm a musician and I've just completely immersed myself in playing in bands, open mics, writing, recording, etc. My wife is annoyed by all the time I'm spending doing this stuff, but when I'm home we just turn on the tv and ignore each other. What's the point. I gave it a lot of time before I started really spending my time on other endeavors.

Good luck to you. Hopefully your wife will realize how much you've changed for your relationship. I'm assuming you're sharing the fact that you haven't looked at porn for over a year, right? Do you share that you masturbate? I don't share anything with my wife any longer. It's definitely sad. If things were different financially I would already be gone.

 

[GBS]

Thanks @guitar1968 . I do think our marriages are different, that said you can put yours right. I think however it’s essential that both of you want to do that. I recall before you said she doesn’t believe (???) in therapy. That, to me, says she doesn’t want to fix it, or that therapy will reveal something she can’t deal with. The fact you say your wife is annoyed when you immerse yourself in your music , I find very interesting. Either that’s a cry for something or it’s jealousy. It’s not nothing though.

My wife knows I am clean from porn insofar as she believes me. The masturbation was something I mentioned months ago saying I was abstaining except for desperation times. She only commented that she generally approved, she said nothing more on the subject. Bringing the subject up puts pressure on her. Maybe I need to put some pressure on. What I don’t to seem like though, is someone still hung up on getting my rocks off which is what M is all about.

 

[GBS]

401 days sober
1 day no MO

Hey, we didn’t celebrate my 400. Actually I am glad we didn’t. It’s a great achievement but it’s all about seeing the light not about the number. I don’t get moments where I want to look. I am instead more fascinated with what the new sex life will be like without my porn abuse anymore and also with my infrequent MO style now.

I know leaving porn behind would be considered the bigger achievement but I simply look at it this way. It’s not actually about porn for me, it’s about the brain and the new freedom of the brain. Not walking down to the shop and staring at some woman’s ass imagining it naked. Don’t get that anymore. Tick. I look into women’s eyes and don’t flick my glance down to their jugs. Tick. I look at women and think “wow, what a lovely kind face that woman has”. It is life affirming. I had to give up porn to get here obviously, and that was central to the cure, but if I had kept on MO’ong, say, once or twice a week, there’s no way I exuberant where I am today. I also needed the break from sex that I have had, so that’s helped too. Having said that, I am massively ready for it now with my new purer brain. So I am thrilled by 400 days but it’s really about where I am. That’s what makes me bristle with pride.

I am 95% sure the next time I have sex will be with my wife, but whoever it is, I know it will be good healthy sex. That, right there, is the best thing of all. I am not going back. No point. Illogical. Stupid. Literally a waste of time.

Remember this….it’s about the brain.

 

[Blondie]

Congrats friend on day 400! It's a hell of an achievement.

Remember this….it’s about the brain.

Indeed it is.

Keep inspiring.

 

[joepanic]

401 days sober
1 day no MO

I know leaving porn behind would be considered the bigger achievement but I simply look at it this way. It’s not actually about porn for me, it’s about the brain and the new freedom of the brain.

This is where it is for me too Porn is not really the issue. To me its about not being a strong masculine man. An upstanding man and watching porn did not allow me to be that man.

I would not have such an issue with porn if it did not take that away from us. Do I still glance at a ladies ass or jugs on the street. Yes i do but in funny way I never just thought about wanting to fuck her. To me its all about appreciating the view. We were on vacation at an indoor resort in Canada last week. Massive indoor waterpark for the kids so moms in swimwear everywhere. I enjoyed the view but never once did it cross my mind to go look at porn or to want to just go fuck these ladies. They were just beautiful ladies out and about doing their thing .

 

[GBS]

402 and 2

Thanks @Blondie - when (not if) you write the book, I think a core theme has to be understanding what we did to our brain. And by extension what we’re doing to it by abstinence.

And thanks @joepanic - I am glad you said what you did. It is heartening to know you’re at that point. Looking at a woman in a swimsuit and thinking she’s (just) beautiful is new territory for us addicts.

There was some tension yesterday so I cut it with a knife and asked what was going on. She couldn’t answer really but agreed we’d have a full check in tomorrow. Tomorrow is today so we shall see.

 

[GBS]

Nicely cleared the air today, or at least partially. She acknowledged that intimacy and communication hadn’t been good. She offered poor excuses that I half let her have. Mood was good afterwards then was followed by reasonably spontaneous sofa time while wa talked about the boys who will be 18 next week. So a good day. No tension. She said she didn’t think there was any before anyway, which I think is total bollocks but there we go.

Going to be off line for a few days now. Easter is massive for me and have much entertaining to do. I shall be back soon. Unlike porn which won’t.

 

[Blondie]

Glad to hear this @GBS.

Have a great Easter!

 

[GBS]

405 days sober
5 days no MO

Not much to say. Progress at home us hard to measure. It sometimes in my head is measured by my wife’s mood which was good yesterday. Did she take off her bra and say have a go with these? No she did not. Was she kind and generally affectionate? Yes she was. Would I like both together? Yes -lease.

 

[GBS]

406 and 6

The world of fantasy.

Every human being fantasizes in some shape or form. I think it’s entirely possible that every adult has some form of sexual fantasy at some point. Certainly we all have sexual dreams and that’s the very definition of fantasy. Porn makes fantasy even more exciting. Porn adds to fantasy so much. When we give up porn we don’t give up fantasy. In fact I think we possibly hold on to it because it’s all we’ve got if we don’t have a sexual partner. It’s difficult to let go of the thing that sort of is the last remnants of being a man. It’s fucking scary to let it go. You can try actually, I have…..it’s really difficult. There will be religious purists who would abhor this, but I think seeking ultimate purity is borderline dangerous in itself. Never masturbating, beating yourself up if you fantasize at all, obviously avoiding porn and every possible substitute, seeking closeness with God, constantly watchful for any mistake…..Jeez, trouble or what?

We set ourselves up to fail. We’re men with hot red blood coursing through our veins. What defines us is who we become, not some climb to the top of a hill where cleanliness and purity are. This is not me making excuses, it’s me being wary of becoming some slightly ridiculous person that I am just not. I apply the 2 second rule, but I bloody well make sure a get every millisecond of my 2 seconds.

 

[TryingHarder]

I think we possibly hold on to it because it’s all we’ve got if we don’t have a sexual partner.

This is what I struggle with. However, I keep on reminding myself of the bigger picture: freeing myself from porn and intrusive sexual fantasies that are actually depression in disguise.

 

[Jlied]

think it’s entirely possible that every adult has some form of sexual fantasy at some point.

I think anyone who says they don’t is lying or too embarrassed to admit to it. You can’t have a thought process and have some sort of longing for things you want or want to experience. Sure some may be more mild than others but I have to think everyone has some sort of frustration in their life that fantasy helps them deal with.

In fact I think we possibly hold on to it because it’s all we’ve got if we don’t have a sexual partner.

While I can’t speak to this i can say that I imagine this is extremely hard to deal with. Not having an outlet for sexual tension or build up has got to make abstaining from porn all the more difficult. I count my blessings that I don’t have to know this feeling personally. I don’t mean to sound like I’m gloating, I’m just trying to say I understand how fortunate I am in that scenario.

It’s difficult to let go of the thing that sort of is the last remnants of being a man. It’s fucking scary to let it go. You can try actually, I have…..it’s really difficult.

I feel the same as you on that, I’ve mentioned it before, so much of our interpretation of masculinity is tied to our sexual libedo. I would argue though being fully in control of your thoughts and urges are probably the most manly thing we can do and I’d bet probably an incredibly attractive skill set. Alas I am not to that level of manliness…..not yet. I can keep striving.

I apply the 2 second rule, but I bloody well make sure a get every millisecond of my 2 seconds.

This gave me a chuckle, but it’s important to not let noticing beauty become obsessive thoughts. Others have said and I agree it’s a liberating feeling to see an attractive person and appreciate them as a person and not a sexual object. I think one of the lowest feelings I ever had in my porn induced coma years was being flipped off by a woman who while dressed rather revealing felt creeped out enough by my constant gazing that she felt the need to flip me off as she left the store we were both in. I think that’s when it started to sink in to me that no matter how in control we think we are we aren’t. Our actions speak more to who we are and in that moment i was painfully aware of who I was.